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2013 Draft Discussion | Part 1 - The Sweeping

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06-07-2013, 08:19 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Malkinstheman View Post
Fucale is Highly overated and seems like the kind of player that dosnt have an elite skill set but projects to almost certainly make it to the nhl. Much rather go for the top ranked european goalie jusse saros.
Simply false.

Not that it matters. We aren't getting him.

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06-08-2013, 08:05 AM
  #127
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So who do we trade to get higher picks this year?

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06-08-2013, 08:24 AM
  #128
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So who do we trade to get higher picks this year?
I dont know what can get us higher than 77th overall. Letang ofc. Then maybe Niskanen and Orpik. Other than that i see us being able to stack up mid-rounders for rights to Iginla/Murray, Kennedy, Engelland, Jeffey, and Maybe MAF.

I really hope we trade Letang, and that was my mindset before the playoffs also. He will demand much money, and i rather take the assets we can get for him in a trade and the cap-relief trading him means. I Love Letang as a player, but sometimes you have to give to get. And i see trading Letang as a huge possibility for a small "rebuild on the run". We cold get a high 1st+prospect and a roster player for him.

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06-08-2013, 08:52 AM
  #129
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With guys like Niskanen, Kennedy, and possibly being able to trade rights with guys like Murray, we're going to end up with a couple 2nd round picks and no 1st or a 2nd and 3rd - something like that. We definitely will not start with the 5th round or whatever we're currently slated at.

If we move Letang, a Top 10 pick will be involved, among other assets coming our way including possibly more picks. That is unless we do a blockbuster and move him for someone like Ryan.

Might even be able to get a 2nd rounder for Fleury (ouch, the irony). We'll see.

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06-08-2013, 09:02 AM
  #130
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Niskanen can be traded for a 2nd/3rd.

Glass can be traded for a 7th.

If we re-sign Cooke and Dupuis and go with Bennett in the top 6, we will have enough cap space to keep Douglas Murray which I think we should do, he's a monster defenseman.

Jarome Iginla UFA rights could get us...idk maybe a 4th? We could probably get a pick for Kennedy's rights. I dont see the Penguins trading Dustin Jeffrey unless he wants to find an oportunity elsewhere.

I don't see the Penguins trading Deryk Engelland or Marc-Andre Fleury.

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06-08-2013, 09:08 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Niskanen can be traded for a 2nd/3rd.

Glass can be traded for a 7th.

If we re-sign Cooke and Dupuis and go with Bennett in the top 6, we will have enough cap space to keep Douglas Murray which I think we should do, he's a monster defenseman.

Jarome Iginla UFA rights could get us...idk maybe a 4th? We could probably get a pick for Kennedy's rights. I dont see the Penguins trading Dustin Jeffrey unless he wants to find an oportunity elsewhere.

I don't see the Penguins trading Deryk Engelland or Marc-Andre Fleury.

Niskanen: would get us a 2nd IMO. We've revived him enough and he has enough upside that someone might trade a late 2nd / early 3rd for him.

Glass: I kind of doubt he'd get a 7th but doesn't really matter. You're going to be looking at career AHL type players for the most part in the 7th round.

Iggy: If we don't sign him to a 1 or 2 year deal (which I hope we do, ASSUMING we get a new coach... zero point in signing him if Bylsma stays unless Shero gives marching orders on leaving him at RW)... then I suspect we could easily get a 2nd rounder for his rights, maybe even a 2nd and 4th. Iggy still has some gas in the tank and better coached teams will love to have him for a year or two.

Fleury is history IMO. If not traded, bought out. We're not taking up 5M of cap space with that guy next year, after multiple playoff collapses in a row. He needs a change in venue, and everyone knows it. He'll always have that pressure / never snap out of his funk if he stays here.

Whatever happens I think it's very unlikely that Shero won't -- at a minimum -- acquire a 2nd and 3rd round pick in this year's draft. It's just too deep to pass up and we have plenty of salary / decent players we need to move.

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06-08-2013, 09:20 AM
  #132
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Looking around online the best Draft Order info I can find is at Wikipedia and I don't think those tables are fully updated. According to that our first pick this year is pick 77 in the 3rd round, but no 4th rounder? Not sure. I wish teams would post this info on their site so we don't have to dig it up from suspect sources. Most sites like Bleacher and others just show the 1st round.

Anyone have the official Draft Order by round, as of today?

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06-08-2013, 09:26 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Gallatin View Post
Here's my original post from page 2.

With the long layover between series, I thought this might be a fun break from all the over-analysis going on with Bruins V Pens. Using a fair amount of speculation and logic here, so bear with me on the long post.

1) Clearly Colorado has big management issues. They're just not very good, thankfully, because only impatient poorly managed teams would make a move like this, as they have admitted they will consider.

2) They are all-in with new President/Coach Patrick Roy. If he fails, not only does his career fail, but the whole management team will likely be gone. So this is a group that would consider mortgaging the future for the now. And don't for a minute forget here that Roy runs the show, basically they all work for him now.

3) The driven and impatient Roy will not tolerate even the idea of building his team around a Russian goalie. Varlamov was really good this season, but that will not matter to Roy. This is probably his only shot at being an NHL Coach, and he will not want to rely on a Russian for such a key position. He will want a French-Canadian goalie, because he just can't help it, it's in his culture, in his blood.

4) The Avs actually have a lot of young talent up front, they have the forwards to win IMO. However, they have a really terrible stable of defensemen, lack physicality, and play a very poorly structured game - mostly due to poor coaching and poor leadership. Roy teams play a structured game, but you still need decent defenseman, they still need more leadership and toughness to make the playoffs, which will be THE only thing that management team is concerned about this year.

5) Cole Harbor native son C/RW Nathan MaKinnon cemented himself as the top player of a deep draft during the playoffs and Memorial Cup. He has clearly separated himself from Jones, who would take years to develop anyway. This lightning fast kid is a winner first, a natural goal scorer 2nd, and a really strong defensive player to boot. He's a right handed Crosby minus the incredible vision and passing. He would be the perfect fit for Sid's top winger the rest of his career.

6) Many of us have been speculating for months that Orpik is gone after this season. Now many feel the same way about Fleury. These are players Roy would likely covet, Orpik for his physicality, experience, and perceived leadership, Fleury because he is clearly the most physically talented goalie in the League, maybe ever, but is in desperate need of some good coaching and a strong defensive system, which is what Roy thinks he himself brings. Fleury in spite of his playoff troubles is still a good to great regular season goalie. And he is French-Canadian.

7) The Penguins need cap room next year and the year after, or a lot of important free agents will be leaving.

So my proposal/speculation is this:

From Colorado - G Semyon Varlamov at $2.8 Mil the next two seasons and the rights to Nathan MaKinnon.

From Pittsburgh-G Mark Andre Fleury, D Brooks Orpik, D Derrick Engelland, and D Brian Dumoulin.

Guilty as charged of building this around pieces that don't hurt, although I am really high on Dumoulin. Sub Niskannen for Engelland, and Maatta for Dumoulin and it's a stronger package. I am just so skeptical of Roy and the rest of that management team.
That is a HORRIBLE trade for Colorado!!! They trade a better goalie and a franchise player for a goalie who is over-rated and depth D-men and a prospect. Colorado laughs at you in French and English!

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06-08-2013, 09:48 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
There seems to be some confusion about whether guys like Gibson becomes a UFA or re-enters. He's a late 1992 birthday, so normally you'd think he becomes a UFA. But there are those saying because he'll still be 20 on draft day he may be eligible for re-entry.

I assume we'll find out after today's deadline for signing 2011 draftees.
Gibson's numbers look very similar to MAF's at the same level.

Our first pick is number 77. If Sven Andrighetto is available we should take him.

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06-08-2013, 09:52 AM
  #135
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I'm participating in a mock and I'm hoping to land Sudbury Wolves RW Nick Baptiste with the 77th pick. Baptiste would be a steal for us if we could get him. I saw him play at the world u-18's for Canada and he was fantastic. Great speed, great hands, projectable size. No idea why he isn't ranked higher but he seems like the kind of player who will bust out in the CHL next season and people will wonder why he went so late in his draft year. Kinda like Ty Rattie.

With the second pick in the third round I think I'm going goaltender, maybe a draft re-entry.

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06-08-2013, 09:53 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Our first pick is number 77. If Sven Andrighetto is available we should take him.
Willing to bet we'll have at least one and maybe two earlier picks than that by the time the draft rolls around, but still looking for the current listing by round.

Anyone know where to find it? Anyone? Bueller?


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06-08-2013, 10:07 AM
  #137
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I wouldn't be surprised to see Niskanen and maybe Orpik traded for pics.

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06-08-2013, 10:13 AM
  #138
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I wouldn't be surprised to see Niskanen and maybe Orpik traded for pics.
Pictures?!?

Haha picks

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06-08-2013, 10:17 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Willing to bet we'll have at least one and maybe two earlier picks than that by the time the draft rolls around, but still looking for the current listing by round.

Anyone know where to find it? Anyone? Bueller?

http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/mock-draft/2013/

That is pretty close. They pretty much have the order, maybe a couple of wrong teams (Boston's pick in the 1st belongs to Dallas, not Boston's 2nd)

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06-08-2013, 10:20 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/mock-draft/2013/

That is pretty close. They pretty much have the order, maybe a couple of wrong teams (Boston's pick in the 1st belongs to Dallas, not Boston's 2nd)
Thanks!

So according to that our first shots are picks 77 and 89, both in the third round.

I think Shero is going to be packaging some guys for 2nd round picks. Beyond that a 1st rounder would require a big name, so we'll see. But if we have two 3rd rounders (something I didn't realize) I think he'll be looking for 2nd rounders or make a big splash again for a 1st rounder in the first 15 picks.

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06-08-2013, 10:40 AM
  #141
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Yeah I agree, I think Shero will acquire more picks. He has salary to clear and some players hold value.

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06-08-2013, 11:18 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Yeah I agree, I think Shero will acquire more picks. He has salary to clear and some players hold value.
Simple as that, really. If we didn't have a big cap drop situation it might be harder to argue but draft picks or no Shero has to move players and so if the need is draft picks and teams are always willing to part with picks before reliable players... it's pretty well a foregone conclusion IMO we'll get some earlier picks. Just a question of how early.

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06-08-2013, 12:38 PM
  #143
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What pick will be given to Carolina for Jokinen? 6th or 7th? I dont remember the conditions for the picks in that trade

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06-08-2013, 12:43 PM
  #144
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Found this: "More info from Bob McKenzie: "If Jokinen plays 50 per cent of PIT 2013 playoff games AND PIT wins the CUP, CAR gets a 6th round pick from PIT... If Jokinen plays 25 per cent of PIT 2013 playoff games AND PIT goes to Cup final, CAR gets 7th round pick from PIT."

Soo, we dont win the CUP or made the finals, does that mean we got Jokinen for free?

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06-08-2013, 12:44 PM
  #145
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Soo, we dont win the CUP or made the finals, does that mean we got Jokinen for free?
Yes.

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06-08-2013, 12:52 PM
  #146
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Free Juice!

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06-08-2013, 01:58 PM
  #147
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What pick will be given to Carolina for Jokinen? 6th or 7th? I dont remember the conditions for the picks in that trade
Nothing which is good.

I don't think we'll get a 1st round pick but a few seconds are definitely possible.

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06-08-2013, 02:12 PM
  #148
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So this write-up will probably be useless since the Pens have a penchant for picking boring, predictable NA players (). But, I'll write it anyway just to try to forget that we just played a hockey game last night. I watch a good number of Eliteserien and SM-Liiga games every year and try to keep tabs on the possible draft picks in the league. This year there are a lot of good Swedish/Finnish players in the draft that could be great pickups for a team that doesn't have a lot of picks. I've ignored players like Barkov and Lindholm since everyone knows about them and they will not be available to us unless we make a major move. This list isn't really in any order, just as they come to mind:

André Burakovsky - Winger - Malmö

Height: 6'2
Weight: ~175-180 lbs.

Burakovsky is a lanky winger that needs to put on some serious bulk to live up to his NHL potential. He likes to control the puck and sometimes this can be his downfall (similar to Malkin when he tries to do too much). He is extremely gifted offensively and is average in the defensive zone. His skating is overall one of the best from the prospects I've seen in the draft. He has an explosive first step that allows him to blow past defenders and is agile enough to play the perimeter game that he likes. Prefers to play on the peremeter, but does not shy away from contact. This is where is size comes into play. He has good height for a NHL player, but needs to be heavier or else he will get pushed around by the stronger NHL defensemen and forwards.

Prediction: He may be taken at the end of the first round, but ideally he would be a very early second round pick.

Nick Sørensen - Winger - Quebec Remparts

Height: 6'1
Weight: ~170 lbs.

Sørensen has played in NA for the past 2 years so he is well adapted to the North American style of play. He is a very raw player because of a major knee injury that set his development back. Prior to the QMJHL, Sørensen played for Rögle in the second tier of Swedish hockey. He has very good vision and passing skills, but also knows how to shoot if required. I don't think he has the highest offensive upside in the draft, but overall his skill cap is somewhere near a Patrick Sharp level player, good in both ends of the ice. Before the knee injury he was known as a very good skater, but I haven't seen much of him after the surgery since he played in the Q.

Prediction: I think he will probably go in the late second round or early third round. He has too much upside for teams to pass him up, but the injury will concern some. If he makes it to midway through the third round he will be a massive steal.

Viktor Crus-Rydberg - Center - LHC

Height: 6'0
Weight: ~190 lbs.

VCR had a strong showing at the combine recently (2nd in push strength and 1st in pull strength). He is a streaky center that uses his body well to defend pucks. LHC is known for a very defensive style of hockey, so VCR may have even more offensive potential then he has shown in the past. Good skating and puck control are the central aspects of his game. He kind of reminds me of a smaller Jordan Staal. He uses what size he has well and shows flashes of offensive brilliance for short periods. Next year he should make the Men's team and we will see how he plays against bigger men. When he gets the chance to come over to NA, his offensive game may get a huge spark after playing for a very conservative LHC team.

Prediction: VCR is flying under the radar from everything that I can tell. I think he will go somewhere between the 4th and 6th rounds, but it really depends if a team likes his potential they may take him earlier.

Linus Arnesson - Defenseman - Djurgården

Height: 6'2
Weight: ~185-190 lbs.

Arnesson is another underrated prospect this year. He is not a flashy prospect at all. He is a positionally sound defenseman who always makes the right play. I don't see any way that Arnesson is not at least a serviceable NHL defenseman. A very safe pick with limited offensive upside. He is quite similar to Määttä, whom the Penguins selected last year, the only difference being that Arnesson plays with a bit more of an edge than Määttä.

Prediction: He isn't flashy, so I don't think he will go early in the draft. Look for teams to start thinking about him in the 3rd and 4th rounds. If he makes it to the 4th round I think he will be a massive steal for whatever team picks him up.

Wilhelm Westlund - Defenseman - Färjestad

Height: 5'11
Weight: ~185 lbs.

Westlund is very similar to Arnesson, but is a bit smaller and less developed. Not flashy, probably less offensive upside than Arnesson, but similar defensively. Lacks size, but makes up for it with great positioning and skating. Very fluid at transitioning from defense to offense. Needs to gain more muscle, but still a very safe bet to make the NHL.

Prediction: Westlund will probably go somewhere between the 5th and 7th rounds. Some teams will hesitate because of his smaller size, but he will be a contributing bottom pairing NHL defenseman in a couple years.

Carl Dahlström - Defenseman - LHC

Height: 6'4
Weight: ~210-215 lbs.

Dahlström has some serious potential at the NHL level. A huge, two-way defenseman that has massive upside. He is strong on both ends of the ice. Definitely more of a boom-or-bust type prospect than Westlund or Arnesson, but his ceiling is much higher. His play reminds me of a less developed Alex Pietrangelo. Will probably play for LHC again this year, but then may be ready to make the jump the year after. Good coaching and playing time in the AHL should do wonders for Dahlström.

Prediction: Dahlström will probably get picked up somewhere in the 2nd or 3rd round. His upside is high, but his lack of experience and rawness may scare off some teams. Would be a good pick for the Pens in the 3rd round to add some more size to the blueline.

Viktor Arvidsson - Winger - Skellefteå

Height: 5'8
Weight: ~170

Arvidsson is a unique winger with his combination of small stature and endless effort. He is probably the most pure shooter of the prospects that I've seen. He is a relentless player in both ends of the ice, constantly buzzing around and outworking opposing players. Highly creative and dynamic in the offensive zone. His passing skills could use work, but more than makes up for it with his shot. Would be a great pick for a team like the Penguins with tons of set-up players. His size is the reason that he isn't considered a top prospect. He has played against men with Skellefteå and has remained productive. Has played notably well in international play as well.

Prediction: His size really hurts him in the draft and will probably push him down to the 5th-6th rounds. His incredible offensive instincts and drive make him a good risky late round selection. If the Penguins could get him in the 6th round I think it would be well worth the risk that his size hampers him from being a good NHL player. Has size and effort similar to Marchand, but replaces the cheapshots and pest factor with serious offensive skills.

Artturi Lehkonen - Winger - KalPa

Height: 5'10
Weight: ~160 lbs.

Lehkonen is a smallish winger with great offensive instincts and stick-handling skills. He has a great offensive toolkit to go with decent defensive ability. His skating an stick-handling allows him to compete with much bigger and stronger players. Needs to add more strength before he will be ready for the NHL. Not as small as Arvidsson so he has more of a chance to be a contributor at the NHL level. An impressive scorer in the Juniors, his scoring touch transferred over well to playing with the big club. He just needs that scoring touch to translate one more time over to the NHL where he can be a top 6 scoring threat.

Prediction: Will go earlier in the draft because of his production playing against men and offensive ability. Probably somewhere in the 2nd-3rd round or so. Could be a good pick for the Pens if he falls to us with our first pick.

Alex Henriksson - Winger - Färjestad

Height: 6'2
Weight: ~185

Henriksson is a skilled, two-way winger with great hands. Especially good in front of the net and behind it, he has a knack for winning puck battles in the dirty areas. Needs to put on more weight before playing in the NHL. Could turn into a good power-forward with good coaching and training. A good player in all three zones, he is also quite adept at both power and skill moves. His offensive skills are well balanced and he is equally as deadly when passing as he is when shooting.

Prediction: Henriksson is one of the most touted European wingers in the draft and will probably go in the 2nd or 3rd round. Should likely go around the same time as Lehkonen. Would be a great pick for the Penguins who could use some more size in the top 6 to go with the skill. His potential as a power forward makes him a great pick for the type of game that the Penguins play.

Peter Cehlarik - Winger - Luleå

Height: 6'2
Weight: ~195-200 lbs.

Cehlarik is a Slovak winger that has been playing in Sweden for the past couple of years. Most of his skill comes into play in the offensive zone, as he is average defensively. Well rounded in the offensive zone, he has good puck skills and has a very accurate shot. His combination of size and skill make him hard to handle for defensive players. Has not played very much against men so he needs to get acclimated to playing against similarly sized players. His size will allow him to translate well to the NHL.

Prediction: His lack of experience will see him slip to the 5th round or so. Could be a good pick for the Pens for the same reasons as Henriksson. If he is available late in the 5th or early in the 6th rounds he should be considered a steal.

Saku Mäenalanen - Winger - Kärpät

Height: 6'3
Weight: ~180 lbs.

Mäenalanen has done quite well playing for the Kärpät U20 team this year with over 20 goals and 58 points in just 45 games. One of the older players in the draft, he has filled out his frame quite well in the past 2 years. A physical player, he is not as skilled as some of the other wingers I've listed, but is probably a safe bet to be a contributing 3rd liner. If he puts on a bit more weight he could be a real physical force on the ice, even when playing against men. He reminds me a bit of fellow Finn Jere Lehtinen, not the most skilled guy on the ice, but a tremendous player all over the ice. He will not have the same upside as Lehtinen, but plays a similar style of game.

Prediction: His lack of offensive skill hurts his draft ranking and probably pushes him into the 6th round. Would be a good conservative pick that could contribute relatively soon in North America. Has size that would be coveted in the Penguins bottom 6.


So that is my breakdown of some of the less-known Swedish/Finnish prospects. I would love to see the Penguins take at least one of these guys in the draft since the NA players tend to be scouted more and I think that some of these guys are just as good as similar players playing in Canada but are just less hyped. Most of them are excellent fits within the Penguins organization and with proper development they could be playing in the AHL within 1-2 years and the Penguins in 3-4.

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Old
06-08-2013, 02:16 PM
  #149
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Great write-up Black Label! I want them all.

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06-08-2013, 02:19 PM
  #150
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Awesome post Black Label. Thanks!

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