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Another reported draft scenario

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05-21-2005, 05:04 PM
  #1
NYRangers
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Another reported draft scenario

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...acodalogin=yes

Quote:
Each team starts with four balls in the lottery.

Teams lose a ball for each year they qualified for the playoffs in the past four seasons.

Teams also lose a ball if they have had the first overall selection in any of the past four drafts.

Each team is guaranteed at least one ball.

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05-21-2005, 05:09 PM
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I like this idea better it gives teams like the Wings a little bit better chance of nabbing Crosby.

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05-21-2005, 05:15 PM
  #3
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If I wasnt lazy I'd figure out how many balls everyone has.

*wink*


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05-21-2005, 05:27 PM
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That's good idea!

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05-21-2005, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Color@do @v@l@nche
That's good idea!

Yeah...teams like Detroit, Toronto & Colarado should have every opprtunity to nab Crosby or the like.

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05-21-2005, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AG
I like this idea better it gives teams like the Wings a little bit better chance of nabbing Crosby.
How will that give them a better chance and why is that good if they do get a better chance? So they can dominate even more and the sucky teams can continue to suck forever?

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05-21-2005, 11:53 PM
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I like the chances it gives the Rangers so I'll take it. I have to admit though as much fun as it would be getting Crosby I'd love it more if the Rangers grabbed say Jack Johnson and got Phil Kessell in the 06 draft. I think if the Rangers got Crosby we'd never hear the end of how the 05 Draft was rigged like Patrick Ewing to NY was rigged.

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05-22-2005, 12:02 AM
  #8
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It's funny the clowns on the prospect board think it would be most fair that every team had 1 ball. Yes that includes, NJ, Philly, Detroit, Colorado, Toronto, Ottawa, Dallas etc.

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05-22-2005, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR1
I like the chances it gives the Rangers so I'll take it. I have to admit though as much fun as it would be getting Crosby I'd love it more if the Rangers grabbed say Jack Johnson and got Phil Kessell in the 06 draft. I think if the Rangers got Crosby we'd never hear the end of how the 05 Draft was rigged like Patrick Ewing to NY was rigged.

I agree, id rather have a franchise defensman and a franchise forward. But if we got Crosby you wouldn't hear me complain the slightest.


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05-22-2005, 07:46 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Yeah...teams like Detroit, Toronto & Colarado should have every opprtunity to nab Crosby or the like.
I dont see how that is so. A team like Detroit would have one ball, they would lose three for making the playoffs.

What I think is the best part of this suggestion is that Washington-Ovechkin, Pittsburgh-Fleury, Columbus-Nash, and Atlanta-Kovalchuk...would all have a ball taken away for getting the first pick. Allowing WSH in particular to get Crosby would blow ass.

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05-22-2005, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Balej's Dance
I dont see how that is so. A team like Detroit would have one ball, they would lose three for making the playoffs.

What I think is the best part of this suggestion is that Washington-Ovechkin, Pittsburgh-Fleury, Columbus-Nash, and Atlanta-Kovalchuk...would all have a ball taken away for getting the first pick. Allowing WSH in particular to get Crosby would blow ass.

The advantage in having four balls as opposed to three is so slight that it is hardly an advantage at all. The same can be said in respect to four chances as opposed to one. All it takes is one chance. The draft has always been geared to give the worse teams a shot at the best players. To give teams that made the playoffs the last three years any shot at all is a travesty.

I'm sure all the fans of those teams that made the playoffs would DISAGREE

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05-22-2005, 12:34 PM
  #12
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Some people want a 30 ball lottery and if they had a choice the Rangers would lose their lottery ball just because they hate the Rangers.Mindless

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05-22-2005, 01:19 PM
  #13
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It will probably not happend but I would like to see a graduated scale with much higher odds too land a top pick for the teams that everyone agrees should be higher ranked.

Its reasonable to expect that a couple of teams that where good before the lockout will suck after it, and that a couple of teams that missed the PO's before the lockout will be contenders after it. It happends every year without a lockout, Dallas and Minnesota are good examples. But the majority of bad teams will still suck and the majority of good teams will still be good after the lockout.

The reported draft scenario is IMO extremely far from reasonable and fair. There would be a 25% chance that a team that have made the PO's 4 straight years gets the 1st overall pick. If you add last years SC winner to that group and teams that have been in the SC finals the last 4 years the odds gets closer to 40%!!! And whats more astonishing is the odds where the top three picks all would go to teams that have made the PO's 4 straight years...

If the NHL weren't in such a mess there is no way a draftscenario like this would be in the running, talk about a commisioner afraid to step on the wrong toes... The competetive balance of the league is suppose to be sacred. With 30 teams in the league its extremly important for teams that the draftsystem works, its hard enough as it is to be competetive in the NHL.

My proposal would be a combination of the two systems that have been talked about in the media. The first one where every round is diveded into groups of five, like 1-5, 6-10, 11-15 and on. Teams would be positioned by a combined standings of the last 4 years. There would be 6 separate lotterys, one for every group. Every lottery would hold 20 balls, in every group 16 balls would be diveded between the top 5 teams somewhat according to the rules in the latest proposal, and 4 balls would represent the rest.

Its allot more complicated and needs some fine-tuning but the bottomline would be that all teams would have a shoot at Crosby, the odds of him gooing to a team outside the 5 worst teams the last 4 years would be 20%(diveded on 25 teams), but there would also be a maximum of 2 teams moving up more then 20 spots. Poor teams would be gauranteed a pick with a range of 6 spots.

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05-22-2005, 02:40 PM
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As I said already, if you people think that THIS is a joke, which I disagree with and think that those teams should have SOME balls. Go to the prospect board, most of these brain dead morons think that each team should have 1 ball and the same odds. The brain dead argument, is that you can't predict how it would come out. So because they think that any other way would be an inexact science, they want to make it completely random, and completely inexact. I can't believe that any hockey fan that's not a fair weather fan, that isn't biased, and isn't braindead that'll tell me that out of NJ, Philly, Detroit, Colorado, Toronto, Ottawa, and Dallas, most if not all of these teams will make the playoffs. All of these teams will most likely make it and if one of them doesn't (e.g. Dallas a few years ago), that they would've had a bottom 5 record that would give them a chance at a #1 pick, they'd miss it by the skin of their teeth. I'm embarrassed to share North America with these Americans/Canadians.

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05-22-2005, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR1
I like the chances it gives the Rangers so I'll take it. I have to admit though as much fun as it would be getting Crosby I'd love it more if the Rangers grabbed say Jack Johnson and got Phil Kessell in the 06 draft. I think if the Rangers got Crosby we'd never hear the end of how the 05 Draft was rigged like Patrick Ewing to NY was rigged.
Why not Crosby and Kessel

They can talk all they want. I'm sure the Knicks don't wish they'd given up Ewing just so they wouldn't hear whispers...

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05-22-2005, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRGoalieGlut
As I said already, if you people think that THIS is a joke, which I disagree with and think that those teams should have SOME balls. Go to the prospect board, most of these brain dead morons think that each team should have 1 ball and the same odds. The brain dead argument, is that you can't predict how it would come out. So because they think that any other way would be an inexact science, they want to make it completely random, and completely inexact. I can't believe that any hockey fan that's not a fair weather fan, that isn't biased, and isn't braindead that'll tell me that out of NJ, Philly, Detroit, Colorado, Toronto, Ottawa, and Dallas, most if not all of these teams will make the playoffs. All of these teams will most likely make it and if one of them doesn't (e.g. Dallas a few years ago), that they would've had a bottom 5 record that would give them a chance at a #1 pick, they'd miss it by the skin of their teeth. I'm embarrassed to share North America with these Americans/Canadians.
woah, why is that not a valid argument? If I was a boston fan I would be steamed right now because they're team is about to be screwed. Now I beleive that the lottery should be weighted because i think you have to maintain competetive balence, but I can certainly see that point of veiw. The only truly fair way to do this is to not have a draft this year and raise the draft age to 19. I know it won't happen, but if your looking for fairness, that's the way to go.

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05-22-2005, 04:33 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xander
woah, why is that not a valid argument? If I was a boston fan I would be steamed right now because they're team is about to be screwed. Now I beleive that the lottery should be weighted because i think you have to maintain competetive balence, but I can certainly see that point of veiw. The only truly fair way to do this is to not have a draft this year and raise the draft age to 19. I know it won't happen, but if your looking for fairness, that's the way to go.
I agree with you, it should be give if it weren't for it beeing impossible. "Can't stop a 18 y/o from making a living" is what I've been told, and keeping Crosby out of the game a little longer...

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05-22-2005, 04:58 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRGoalieGlut
How will that give them a better chance and why is that good if they do get a better chance? So they can dominate even more and the sucky teams can continue to suck forever?
uh maybe because the teams with the first overall pick in the last 4 years lose a ball duh. Also the Wings are my favorite team so thats why its good.

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05-22-2005, 05:03 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by AG
uh maybe because the teams with the first overall pick in the last 4 years lose a ball duh. Also the Wings are my favorite team so thats why its good.
and yet your on the ranger's board?

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05-22-2005, 08:15 PM
  #20
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Whats your point? Why cant I go to different team boards? Is there a rule against it or something? I see other people posting on other team boards.

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05-23-2005, 01:10 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xander
woah, why is that not a valid argument? If I was a boston fan I would be steamed right now because they're team is about to be screwed. Now I beleive that the lottery should be weighted because i think you have to maintain competetive balence, but I can certainly see that point of veiw. The only truly fair way to do this is to not have a draft this year and raise the draft age to 19. I know it won't happen, but if your looking for fairness, that's the way to go.
Yes, that's the only true fair way to do it, but since it probably won't happen you have to do it this way. Boston is not a powerhouse but they probably wouldn't have a bottom 5 record either. I believe the Caps get screwed (to be honest not sure exactly about what teams would have what chance in this thread's proposal), but in the other scenario I'm positive that more teams would get screwed. Look, I said this in the prospect board, if the same exact positioning and system was retained from the last draft, and the Rangers would thus have no chance to pick first, I would say that it would be much fairer than the 1 ball for 1 team, where the Rangers would have 1/30th of a chance. The reason is because, my biggest beef is not the bad teams being screwed but the good teams have as good of a chance as anyone to get Crosby. I made these arguments in the other board, but here goes. While doing it this way, is an inexact science, it's more exact than just total randomness. I think in this way, the amount of lottery balls is around 60, I may be wrong, but let's just use that number as an example. The probability of the Rangers getting the # 1 pick, if the season was played would be closer to 4/60 than 1/30, and the probabilty of the Devils getting that pick would be closer to 1/60 than 1/30. I actually didn't use the numbers on that board, so maybe I should. That goes the same, btw, for Philly, Detroit, Colorado etc. So in essence you're raising the chances that you'll get it right. So basically as an analogy, the fact that this is an inexact science and we don't know how it would be EXACTLY, is the same thing as Tyutin getting shot in the leg, would you Rangers fans want us to pour salt on it (make the probability lower) or put a band aid on it (try to maximize probability of getting it right?) As I said before, this would be about as ridiculous as naming a Stanley Cup champion of the lost season by giving each team a ball and picking one that way.

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05-23-2005, 01:17 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AG
Whats your point? Why cant I go to different team boards? Is there a rule against it or something? I see other people posting on other team boards.
there's no rule against it, but why would you come on here and expect us to know that your a wings fan?

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05-23-2005, 01:48 AM
  #23
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I didn't thats why I told you.

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05-23-2005, 08:29 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Balej's Dance
I dont see how that is so. A team like Detroit would have one ball, they would lose three for making the playoffs.
The point is that teams like Detroit should not have a chance at the # 1 pick overall.

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05-23-2005, 12:47 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
The point is that teams like Detroit should not have a chance at the # 1 pick overall.
To be honest, I've been one of the porponents of fairness and these powerhouses not getting as big of a chance. BUT, with the fact that there was no season, I think that they should get a chance, but not as big of a chance, among the smallest.

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