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Old
06-04-2013, 03:34 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by gallagt01 View Post
There is nothing wrong with still having Vanek on the roster a year before his contract expires.

You can fault Regier if he gets nothing for Vanek by the deadline and he doesn't get him to re-sign. You can't fault him for having him on the roster when they're expecting the team to be competitive.
I think the perfect scenario for buffalo is he is on the roster until the deadline next year and is ether re-signed that day (you see that often leading up to the deadline) or he is traded.

Only way I'd be happy vanek is traded is if it helps us get into the top 3. I'm thinking Darcy would think the same way. I could even see vanek who seems like an honest guy saying something like look, ice a playoff team next year and I sign by the deadline, if not please move me to a contender.

The dream is we get into the top 3 without dealing much of any roster players, vanek gets a chance to play with top young talent and wants to resign as he sees a bright future. If he still doesn't then f it, get as much as we can at the deadline which should pull hossa/kovalchuk like returns.

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06-04-2013, 03:57 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Native Buddha View Post
There's no other reliable scorer on this team. Stafford doesn't want to do it and neither does Foligno.
Steve Ott can score but any Sabres fan who says we can rely on him to win games is out of their mind.

CoHo is a good scorer, at times a finesse scorer but not consistent. If Vanek goes, I think he'll know his role.
First of all, welcome!!!! Don't let my mild rebuttal keep you from posting. CoHo's role already is to score goals, he just doesn't / can't to the extent Vanek does. Also, I don't think the departure of Vanek would cause CoHo to morph into a more prolific scorer. (In reality, CoHo's production may drop if #26 leaves.)


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Originally Posted by JLewyB View Post
Are we getting Jefferson back? 6'2, one of the best defenders of liberty, great leadership qualities. His years in France may help with the recruitment of French Canadians to our team, as well. I like it.
I really laughed at this, both for the cerebral post, and because I'm a fan of Jefferson.
However, I immediately thought that if Jefferson isn't available, Sabres should pursue Lincoln: 6'4", defender of Union, great playoff beard.
Knowing Darcy, he's probably leaning toward Madison, all 5'4" 110 lbs of him, and overlook the under-size because of his cerebral work on the Constitution.

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06-04-2013, 04:08 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Selanne00008 View Post
I think the perfect scenario for buffalo is he is on the roster until the deadline next year and is ether re-signed that day (you see that often leading up to the deadline) or he is traded.

Only way I'd be happy vanek is traded is if it helps us get into the top 3. I'm thinking Darcy would think the same way. I could even see vanek who seems like an honest guy saying something like look, ice a playoff team next year and I sign by the deadline, if not please move me to a contender.

The dream is we get into the top 3 without dealing much of any roster players, vanek gets a chance to play with top young talent and wants to resign as he sees a bright future. If he still doesn't then f it, get as much as we can at the deadline which should pull hossa/kovalchuk like returns.
What do we gain/lose for 50 games of Vanek next year, if we are building for a Stanley Cup? If a contract isn't worked out by the draft you trade him if you like the return.

Letting it go down to the wire in regards to a new contract/if you're going to trade him is playing with fire.

Worst case scenario is he walks for nothing.... Vanek walking for nothing is a devastating option or this franchise.... Why risk it?

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06-04-2013, 04:16 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
What do we gain/lose for 50 games of Vanek next year, if we are building for a Stanley Cup? If a contract isn't worked out by the draft you trade him if you like the return.

Letting it go down to the wire in regards to a new contract/if you're going to trade him is playing with fire.

Worst case scenario is he walks for nothing.... Vanek walking for nothing is a devastating option or this franchise.... Why risk it?
Well, The only risk is if he gets injured and can't help out a contender, yes that'd be a blow. But other than at I see no risk as Darcy will get a huge return. Obviously we would never let it get past the deadline without an extension or a trade. That will never happen again with a players of vaneks ilk.

That being said I think the return would be larger at the deadline compared to this summer. What we gain is finding out (based After this years draft moves) is if Vanek fits with this group and can ice a p/o team or not. Kind of a 50 game case to convince vanek we will be good soon. Obviously if we stand pat and can't make a move without it being vanek included then go ahead and move him because we most likely wont gain immediate top end help.

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06-04-2013, 04:25 PM
  #105
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If the return for Vanek is as low as a 2nd and a Gragnani-like prospect, I'd keep Thomas and deal him at the deadline. If the offers are significantly higher, I would go full rebuild.

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06-04-2013, 04:30 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Selanne00008 View Post
Well, The only risk is if he gets injured and can't help out a contender, yes that'd be a blow. But other than at I see no risk as Darcy will get a huge return. Obviously we would never let it get past the deadline without an extension or a trade. That will never happen again with a players of vaneks ilk.

That being said I think the return would be larger at the deadline compared to this summer.
Possibly, but the potential number of suitors may be much smaller at the deadline.

Quote:
What we gain is finding out (based After this years draft moves) is if Vanek fits with this group and can ice a p/o team or not.
Not sure what is meant here. I don't see where this years (later this month) draft moves have a significant impact on 2014 playoff chances (as I'm a realist, not pessimist, but I won't dismiss your optimism). If instead, you mean whether Vanek himself (singularly) will have an impact on Sabres playoff chances, I think that Q has already been answered in prior seasons, and without Pomms (and the rest of the so-called Roch core), that answer is negative.

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Obviously if we stand pat and can't make a move without it being vanek included then go ahead and move him because we most likely wont gain immediate top end help.
The only scenarios making sense to me, in reverse-order of perceived likelihood are:
1) 1-2 yr BUF extension at near-cap max, to keep enough fans in seats during the rebuild, while still offering another UFA payday. That may not be enough to keep him though. (least likely)
2) Trade before draft to team which makes handshake agreement to extension before trade.
3) Trade at '14 deadline. (most likely)

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06-04-2013, 04:44 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by brian_griffin View Post
Possibly, but the potential number of suitors may be much smaller at the deadline.


Not sure what is meant here. I don't see where this years (later this month) draft moves have a significant impact on 2014 playoff chances (as I'm a realist, not pessimist, but I won't dismiss your optimism). If instead, you mean whether Vanek himself (singularly) will have an impact on Sabres playoff chances, I think that Q has already been answered in prior seasons, and without Pomms (and the rest of the so-called Roch core), that answer is negative.


The only scenarios making sense to me, in reverse-order of perceived likelihood are:
1) 1-2 yr BUF extension at near-cap max, to keep enough fans in seats during the rebuild, while still offering another UFA payday. That may not be enough to keep him though. (least likely)
2) Trade before draft to team which makes handshake agreement to extension before trade.
3) Trade at '14 deadline. (most likely)
Well, we do both agree a deadline trade is most likely.

I don't see how the number of suitors goes down. We'd get Plenty of call for vanek at the deadline for sure. How could we not? There is Plenty of parity (especially out west), and his cap hit come the deadline won't be too bad for anyone with some cap space. I'd imagine some of the other ufa's to be will have been resigned by then.

I see why some might be confused by a bit of optimism but yes that's what I meant. But yeah, this years draft wouldn't impact next years playoffs unless we move into the top 3. But I think more than that it would influence vaneks decision to resign or not.

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06-04-2013, 05:34 PM
  #108
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With a player who was as banged up as Vanek was last year I wouldn't risk waiting til the deadline unless you are getting garbage offers....


And I highly doubt he signs an extension... Why would he?

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06-04-2013, 05:50 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
With a player who was as banged up as Vanek was last year I wouldn't risk waiting til the deadline unless you are getting garbage offers....


And I highly doubt he signs an extension... Why would he?
Vanek really isn't as injury prone as he's made out to be.

I agree though, why would he. I wouldn't either, unless we move up, grab a high end NHL ready talent and we perform well the first 50 games (yes it's a stretch)

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06-04-2013, 08:30 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Selanne00008 View Post
Well, we do both agree a deadline trade is most likely.

I don't see how the number of suitors goes down. We'd get Plenty of call for vanek at the deadline for sure. How could we not? There is Plenty of parity (especially out west), and his cap hit come the deadline won't be too bad for anyone with some cap space. I'd imagine some of the other ufa's to be will have been resigned by then.

I see why some might be confused by a bit of optimism but yes that's what I meant. But yeah, this years draft wouldn't impact next years playoffs unless we move into the top 3. But I think more than that it would influence vaneks decision to resign or not.
Off-season there are more suitors, by definition. 29 possible other teams. Let's assume ~30-50% of those (~10-15 teams) have both a need, desire, and fit (cap) for Vanek.
Come deadline, the number of teams with a need and desire is cut in half from 29 to 15-16 teams. Assume cap is not an issue because of the late-season pro-rated salary scenario. There will be only a handful of teams who can make an attractive offer, simply because the ante will be higher, as opposed to 3 weeks from now, when it will take less of an ante to have a seat at the trade table.

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06-04-2013, 10:41 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
With a player who was as banged up as Vanek was last year I wouldn't risk waiting til the deadline unless you are getting garbage offers....


And I highly doubt he signs an extension... Why would he?
Vanek has played in 94% of the Sabres possible games over his career.His injury "woes" are no worse then any other player on the team.If anything, Vanek is the guy who is able to play through minor bumps and bruises that most big players in the league couldn't handle.So much for Lindy thinking Vanek was just another "weak" Euro who couldn't handle the "premier" minutes that he lied about giving to Vanek.Just sucks that as soon as we fire the ass clown now Vanek wants to go I don't blame him, why stay on the team who has done nothing but hold him back.Vanek on any well ran/coached team would have been getting 20+ mins a night scoring 40-50 goals a season and killing penalties, not this 16-17 minute ******** he has been given practically his whole career.I forgot t

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06-05-2013, 01:50 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by brian_griffin View Post
Possibly, but the potential number of suitors may be much smaller at the deadline.

Not at all ....

Vanek is in a walk year and the dealine is after 60+ games so 75% of the season is played.

A $7.14M cap hit at the deadline translated to $1.785M cap hit with Buffalo retaining half amounts to a cap hit of the acquiring team of $892,500 cap hit for the acquiring team.

20 teams easily would be able to afford that and make solid offers of a 1st + 2 decent young players. The players may not be as good as what they could get now--but they are still going to be comparative to the players Pommers got.

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06-05-2013, 01:56 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by brian_griffin View Post
There will be only a handful of teams who can make an attractive offer, simply because the ante will be higher, as opposed to 3 weeks from now, when it will take less of an ante to have a seat at the trade table.
Compared to now than the trading deadline his price will drop some because he is a pure rental who could walk after the season so some teams will be bidded out and not want to give up as much as other teams.

Vanek is the type of player who will win a team a cup and he has no trade control on his contract.

Actually this offseason more teams are out of the bidding because they have cap issues and cant absorb a $3.6M cap hit in a trade. But those same teams could easily affor the $850,000 salary ate the deadline he would cost them.

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06-05-2013, 05:52 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Vanek has played in 94% of the Sabres possible games over his career.His injury "woes" are no worse then any other player on the team.If anything, Vanek is the guy who is able to play through minor bumps and bruises that most big players in the league couldn't handle.So much for Lindy thinking Vanek was just another "weak" Euro who couldn't handle the "premier" minutes that he lied about giving to Vanek.Just sucks that as soon as we fire the ass clown now Vanek wants to go I don't blame him, why stay on the team who has done nothing but hold him back.Vanek on any well ran/coached team would have been getting 20+ mins a night scoring 40-50 goals a season and killing penalties, not this 16-17 minute ******** he has been given practically his whole career.I forgot t
He may not miss many games but he's far less affective when he's playing injured.

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06-05-2013, 07:40 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Djp View Post
Not at all ....

Vanek is in a walk year and the dealine is after 60+ games so 75% of the season is played.

A $7.14M cap hit at the deadline translated to $1.785M cap hit with Buffalo retaining half amounts to a cap hit of the acquiring team of $892,500 cap hit for the acquiring team.

20 teams easily would be able to afford that and make solid offers of a 1st + 2 decent young players. The players may not be as good as what they could get now--but they are still going to be comparative to the players Pommers got.
I don't like the thought of trading him at the deadline because 1)he might be injured and 2) we may be in the playoff hunt making it unpalatable to trade him at that point. If we don't resign him, move him this summer at the draft.

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06-05-2013, 09:22 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Vanek has played in 94% of the Sabres possible games over his career.His injury "woes" are no worse then any other player on the team.If anything, Vanek is the guy who is able to play through minor bumps and bruises that most big players in the league couldn't handle.So much for Lindy thinking Vanek was just another "weak" Euro who couldn't handle the "premier" minutes that he lied about giving to Vanek.Just sucks that as soon as we fire the ass clown now Vanek wants to go I don't blame him, why stay on the team who has done nothing but hold him back.Vanek on any well ran/coached team would have been getting 20+ mins a night scoring 40-50 goals a season and killing penalties, not this 16-17 minute ******** he has been given practically his whole career.I forgot t
It's not Vaneks entire career that is a concern, it's last season. He actually started missing time last year.

He could have never missed a game and the risk of waiting til the deadline is still there. It's not like this past season when we retain his rights.

If Regier actively decides to wait until the deadline, then Vanek gets hurt and is untradeable we lose him for nothing. It's as simple as that. It's a legitimate concern.

If I'm running The Sabres I approach him this summer about an extension, and if he isn't interested I begin shopping him... Preferably trade him before the draft in order to get whatever assets he returns into the system

One thing is for certain, Vanek doesn't take the ice for Buffalo without an extension in place.

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06-05-2013, 02:09 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Vanek has played in 94% of the Sabres possible games over his career.His injury "woes" are no worse then any other player on the team.If anything, Vanek is the guy who is able to play through minor bumps and bruises that most big players in the league couldn't handle.So much for Lindy thinking Vanek was just another "weak" Euro who couldn't handle the "premier" minutes that he lied about giving to Vanek.Just sucks that as soon as we fire the ass clown now Vanek wants to go I don't blame him, why stay on the team who has done nothing but hold him back.Vanek on any well ran/coached team would have been getting 20+ mins a night scoring 40-50 goals a season and killing penalties, not this 16-17 minute ******** he has been given practically his whole career.I forgot t
IIRC, didn't Vanek's ice time gradually increase under Rolston?

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He may not miss many games but he's far less affective when he's playing injured.
Name me one player in the league where that's not true. Even Crosby is less effective when playing through an injury.

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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
It's not Vaneks entire career that is a concern, it's last season. He actually started missing time last year.
I don't think it was as blatant or excessive as you imply - if anything, I think Vanek was more cautious when fighting through an injury of returning to the lineup too quickly. I'm sure he weighed the risk-reward of aggravating an injury by rushing back into the lineup too soon vs. the impact of him in the roster changing the team's place in the standings.

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06-07-2013, 08:03 PM
  #118
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"Serious Interest in Vanek from Phoenix, Dallas, Calgary (e3)"

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklun...0#.UbKCSNLVCSo


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06-07-2013, 08:09 PM
  #119
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He's not considered a source around here.

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06-07-2013, 08:13 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
IIRC, didn't Vanek's ice time gradually increase under Rolston?

.
I believe he was actually getting less ice time. Vanek was getting 20+ mins under Ruff at the beginning of the season ( and was scoring at the best pace of his career, go figure). When Rolston took over he was getting less and less. He was still getting more then he usually does so atleast Rolston had the sense not to give him 17 mins again.

There has been no reason for Vanek not to have been getting 18-20 mins a game and killing penalties from 07 on, ever since the co caps left. Ruff should have made him the primary forward and instead makes him a supporting piece. The first time Ruff put Vanek on the PK he had a shg in his first 2 games on the PK. He also successfully killed every PK he was on and the Sabres didn't allow a ppg in those 2 games. Of course Ruff takes Van off the pk for years Vaneks PK is extremely underrated as is his 2 way play. Vanek is a guy you can give 20 mins a game to and put him on the PK. Highly skilled players need to be on the ice period. Ruff ruined Vanek.

There was a season where Paul ****ing Gaustad had more ToI then Vanek Vanek was the most underused and wrongly utilized players in the whole league. He should have been getting 3 or more minutes a game then he was getting and no, saying Pominville needed to play with Hecht is not an excuse.

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06-07-2013, 08:41 PM
  #121
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I would hope that if a trade is to happen, Darcy sat down with him and asked him where he would like to go and that could possibly up his trade value as he would be likely to sign an extension with that team.

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06-07-2013, 09:26 PM
  #122
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I don't think Vanek's ice time changed very much at all from the beginning of the season to the end. Maybe within 30-45 seconds

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play.../gamelog/2013/

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06-07-2013, 10:27 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
I don't think Vanek's ice time changed very much at all from the beginning of the season to the end. Maybe within 30-45 seconds

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play.../gamelog/2013/
Rolston did pare him back when he was playing through/with an injury in mid-March before Vanek had to shut it down a while to heal what was reported as a muscle strain.

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06-07-2013, 10:48 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
IIRC, didn't Vanek's ice time gradually increase under Rolston?
Using Vanek's game log, Ruff vs Rolston:
  • Ruff: 16 GP, 12 G, 13 A, +3, 12 PIM, 5 PPG, 1 SHG, 58 SOG, 20.7 S%, 19:25 ATOI
  • Rolston: 22 GP, 8 G, 8 A, -4, 8 PIM, 4 PPG, 0 SHG, 61 SOG, 13.1 S%, 17:40 ATOI

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06-08-2013, 12:23 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Woodhouse View Post
Using Vanek's game log, Ruff vs Rolston:
  • Ruff: 16 GP, 12 G, 13 A, +3, 12 PIM, 5 PPG, 1 SHG, 58 SOG, 20.7 S%, 19:25 ATOI
  • Rolston: 22 GP, 8 G, 8 A, -4, 8 PIM, 4 PPG, 0 SHG, 61 SOG, 13.1 S%, 17:40 ATOI
So if you take away any games where he was scaled back due to injury, a healthy Vanek under Ruff vs. Rolston would be ... Closer?

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