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Head Coach Vacancy Pt III: How's your spelling? (Eakins/Vigneault/Messier/Gretzky)

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06-02-2013, 12:03 PM
  #877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richter Scale View Post
In terms of offensive zone starts, sure. In terms of their offensive creativity? Hell no.
The coach's job is to put people into the positions where they can best succeed based on their skillset. Who cares if a coach is defensive minded or offensive minded if he excels at that particular aspect?

He wasn't defensive minded when it came to the Sedins, I wouldn't expect him to be defensive minded when it would come to Rick Nash.

I just find the strong feelings one way or the other anyone has about experienced coaches to be a little bit crazy. AV isn't going to be exactly the same coach in NY as he was in Vancouver or Montreal. Lindy Ruff and Guy Boucher aren't going to be exactly the same coach they were in Buffalo and Tampa respectively. Dallas Eakins isn't going to be exactly the same coach he was for the Marlies. The strong preferences about any of these coaches is premature.

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06-02-2013, 12:10 PM
  #879
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Eakins is inexperienced at the NHL level yes but he has legit coaching experience in the AHL which is a far cry from anything Messier can say.

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06-02-2013, 12:10 PM
  #880
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Originally Posted by Richter Scale View Post
Sather explicitly said that he doesn't know what he wants in a coach. Firing Torts was another typical Sather move without any semblance of a plan.

But if you want to give him some credit, you could believe that he may not have had Mess or Gretz on his list to begin with. If that is the case, now that they have leaked it to the media that they are interested, he has to, at the very least, give them some consideration. Even if you assume he isn't feeling pressure from the fans/media/etc, you simply don't snub 'The Great One' and the 'Messiah'.


By assuming it was definitely Messier or Gretzky, you're limiting your perspective on the possibilities for how this played out. But either way - whether you believe they were in the mix from the start, or forced their way in; with this organization, and with Sather, it was entirely predictable that they would end up being a part of the discussion.
Responding to your paragraphs in order.

What do you mean by a plan? If you mean that he didn't know who he was going to hire immediately, then you're right. But that is, by far, the most common of all situations involving a coaching change. Hell, Ron Rolston and Jon Cooper are two examples of guys who were named interims and then earned the contract for next year. The plan, if you can call it that, for those two franchises was to give their guys a test run. That's not much of a plan. Dallas and Vancouver are also looking for new coaches. That they haven't hired one yet doesn't mean they threw caution to the wind.

I agree that he needs to treat these guys with respect. That doesn't mean he needs to hire them. I was saying that the fact that he HASN'T hired either of them already is favorable for him not hiring them at all.

As for your last paragraph, I'm just going to assume you weren't responding to me there.

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06-02-2013, 12:13 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
No. This team needs experience. If you want up and coming you can go to Weight.

Eakins in same boat as Messier. I'd allow another team to take a gamble on him. Coaches have shelf lives. If Eakins is good we can sign him if he ever becomes available again (which he will).
Eakins has better, and more, coaching experience than Weight does. Weight has 2 years as an assistant for the Islanders. Eakins was the assistant in NHL Toronto for 2 years and has been head coach in AHL Toronto for 4.

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06-02-2013, 12:15 PM
  #882
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I don't care. I want whichever coach gets us wins. Be that Eakins, AV, Messier or Gretzky.

If we hire Messier or Gretzky and go on to win the cup, I will care less about the cup, and moer about serving up some crow for people. If the front office feels that Messier can coach them to the cup, by all means, try it.
You post just as often as the rest of us on a message board dedicated to hockey while never seeing a Cup and you'd care more about serving crow? C'mon, dude.

Also, the front office felt it was smart to give Wade Redden a contract so you'll have to excuse me if I'm skeptical about their intentions nearly all the time.

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06-02-2013, 12:16 PM
  #883
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
No. This team needs experience. If you want up and coming you can go to Weight.

Eakins in same boat as Messier. I'd allow another team to take a gamble on him. Coaches have shelf lives. If Eakins is good we can sign him if he ever becomes available again (which he will).


Wow this is so far from the truth it's not even funny...it's actually insane.


Not even close

Eakins has 300+ regular season games as HC of the Marlies over the past 4 seasons.

He was also an Assistant for the Marlies in 2005-2006 and was a Leafs Assistant in 06/07 and 07/08.

Messier's coaching/Asst coaching resume:

3 games Spengler Cup Tourney
3 games Deutschland Cup Tourney

Clearly as you say in the same boat

Mark still has swimmies on compared to Eakins

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06-02-2013, 12:16 PM
  #884
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Give me one of Tippett, Vigneault, or Eakins. No particular order. Just one of them.

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06-02-2013, 12:23 PM
  #885
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I've never served crow, hmm some bbq crow smoked with some Applewood. .. Red Robin. ...yuuuuummm

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06-02-2013, 01:15 PM
  #886
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I could see Miller being Kesler lite. Now bear in mind, we're talking lite, like no-carb Kesler Zero. But yeah.

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06-02-2013, 01:43 PM
  #887
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I see no reason why Miller cant be as good as Kesler. Kid was a top 15 pick and held his own for most of the season as a 19 year-old with no NHL training camp. He showed flashes of being a stud, and his defense will come in time. Kesler had two 70+ point seasons and then hovers around 50-60. I can easily see Miller hitting the 50-60 mark regularly.

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06-02-2013, 01:48 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
I could see Miller being Kesler lite. Now bear in mind, we're talking lite, like no-carb Kesler Zero. But yeah.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DudMan28 View Post
I see no reason why Miller cant be as good as Kesler. Kid was a top 15 pick and held his own for most of the season as a 19 year-old with no NHL training camp. He showed flashes of being a stud, and his defense will come in time. Kesler had two 70+ point seasons and then hovers around 50-60. I can easily see Miller hitting the 50-60 mark regularly.
Probably closer to Dubinsky/Callahan than Kesler.

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06-02-2013, 01:49 PM
  #889
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He looks more skilled to me than either Dubi or Cally, even at his age.

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06-02-2013, 01:51 PM
  #890
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Originally Posted by aufheben View Post
He looks more skilled to me than either Dubi or Cally, even at his age.
Don't really see it that much TBH from the 20 or so Rangers games he played and the WJC. Pretty North-South player. Probably going to be a nice 3rd liner in this league.

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06-02-2013, 01:54 PM
  #891
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Miller doesn't quite have Kesler's shot. He's more of a playmaker.

I'd say he's more akin to a Mike Richards than a Ryan Kesler. Who knows if he'll be that good — I think the upside is there.

Personally, I'm expecting him to be a very good 3rd/2nd line player, 45-50 point type guy. There's room for more, though, for sure.

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06-02-2013, 02:05 PM
  #892
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I'm surprised people are so on board with Vigneault.

Look at the talent on that roster. Look at the regular season records. Scoring numbers. Everything's peachy right?

How can you overlook the Canucks playoff track record? Yea, I watched, I understand the goaltending situation. But Vigneault has to take a good amount of heat for not having his team ready to play in the postseason. Consistently regular season champs, playoff chokers. That is a big time issue for me. That speaks to preparation and the ability for your gameplan to hold up when it has to.

Last 5 years. Never finished below 3rd in the Conference. 2 President's Trophys. No Rings. One SCF trip. 2 First round exits.

2013 - 3rd in West, swept in round 1.
2012 - President's Trophy, out in 5.
2011 - Presiden's Trophy, lost in SCF.
2010 - 3rd in West, lost in WCF
2009 - 3rd in West, lost in WCF

Not to mention his track record is hilariously counter to Sather's self proclaimed measurement of success.

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06-02-2013, 02:08 PM
  #893
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Originally Posted by Richter Scale View Post
Sather explicitly said that he doesn't know what he wants in a coach. Firing Torts was another typical Sather move without any semblance of a plan.
He may not know exactly what he wants right now but he has a list of names in his desk drawer. Every GM does. Until you interview and vet those people, the process is ongoing. One thing that I believe would significantly boost a Messier candidacy is if he came into an interview completely prepared with organizational recommendations, process and policy and coaching views clearly spelled out.

Personal anecdote -- several years ago, I passed on a friend for a job. When he applied for the opening, he seemed to expect consideration only because he was my friend. I didn't care for the way he approached it. A few years later when another opening came up, he applied through proper channels, interviewed exceptionally well and was the best prepared candidate for the job. I hired him and he's outlasted me at that company by 8 years.

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06-02-2013, 02:14 PM
  #894
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Therein lies the problem.

This is not a win now team.

We thought we were with both Nash and Gabby, but with Gabby and Richards no showing on the season, being a win now team is/was a pipe dream.

Now, to get back to what we were hoping for, we still need that secondary scoring threat like a gaborik, we still need that top line center because while Stepan is a good player, I'm not convinced he is a consistent top line guy.

Need for Staal to get back to being Staal AND we need an offensive defenceman that can QB a PP

To soft at the top 6, to slow and limited talent on the bottom 6

the team has quite a few holes and no re-tread HC is going to address that.

Bring in a younger guy with a different approach and let him grow with this team. Because as currently constructed, we are no where near winning now.
Kiss Hank's Swedish rear goodbye!

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06-02-2013, 03:29 PM
  #895
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Messier leaks his interest to the media and he puts the organization in a very tough spot



http://www.northjersey.com/sports/20...ching_job.html

People can't see what is going on here? Its always about Mark.
This is stupid by holik. most fans are not that stupid and regardless sather clearly doesn't do what the fans want anyway.


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Old
06-02-2013, 03:30 PM
  #896
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I want Vigneault now.

If he hires Messier then shame on him.

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06-02-2013, 03:41 PM
  #897
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Miller doesn't quite have Kesler's shot. He's more of a playmaker.

I'd say he's more akin to a Mike Richards than a Ryan Kesler. Who knows if he'll be that good I think the upside is there.

Personally, I'm expecting him to be a very good 3rd/2nd line player, 45-50 point type guy. There's room for more, though, for sure.
Yeah. I mean, we have to wait and see how good he will become. But I really like him. We have no reason to believe that he will "not" become a rock solid, pain in the rear, 2-way player. I mean, I would be really suprised if we had to worry about his game away from the puck or on the forecheck etc, down the line. I think he will be really good in those areas.

So right there you got a solid top 3 line player.

But Miller also got the ability to beat D's, he is fearless and takes the puck to the net, he got a decent shot and decent playmaking ability. I wouldn't at all be suprised if he kept developing really well for several years offensively. He could become a Mike Richards/Ryan Kesler mix/type, or a little short of them. But I think he will become a very good hockey player.

I think we are selling JT Miller short in NY. I've seen this before, a kid comes in and isn't a star from the drop of the puck and all of a sudden the grass is greener at all kind of places.

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06-02-2013, 03:49 PM
  #898
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I'm surprised people are so on board with Vigneault.

Look at the talent on that roster. Look at the regular season records. Scoring numbers. Everything's peachy right?

How can you overlook the Canucks playoff track record? Yea, I watched, I understand the goaltending situation. But Vigneault has to take a good amount of heat for not having his team ready to play in the postseason. Consistently regular season champs, playoff chokers. That is a big time issue for me. That speaks to preparation and the ability for your gameplan to hold up when it has to.

Last 5 years. Never finished below 3rd in the Conference. 2 President's Trophys. No Rings. One SCF trip. 2 First round exits.

2013 - 3rd in West, swept in round 1.
2012 - President's Trophy, out in 5.
2011 - Presiden's Trophy, lost in SCF.
2010 - 3rd in West, lost in WCF
2009 - 3rd in West, lost in WCF

Not to mention his track record is hilariously counter to Sather's self proclaimed measurement of success.
Not to mention that is the 2nd weakest division in the league (just ahead of the South East Division, which is a pile of doggy doo doo)

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06-02-2013, 03:50 PM
  #899
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I'm surprised people are so on board with Vigneault.

Look at the talent on that roster. Look at the regular season records. Scoring numbers. Everything's peachy right?
What worries me is the Sedin factor, more than their PO record.

They gloat and brag about a bunch of players in Vancouver, guys like Bieksa, Edler, Sami Salo, Kesler and co, and many others over the years, have supposedly been the best in the league. But from my point of view, they are an extreme top line team. The Sedins won concecutive Art Ross Trophy's lately. They are spending a ton of ice time in the attacking zone, every night, no matter who they play against. And I can guarantee you that the Sedin's basically aren't coached. They do their thing, and would do it with every single coach in this league or the AHL.

So AV has basically only coached the 2nd to 4th line in Van. More or less atleast.

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06-02-2013, 04:08 PM
  #900
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Messier leaks his interest to the media and he puts the organization in a very tough spot

http://www.northjersey.com/sports/20...ching_job.html

People can't see what is going on here? Its always about Mark.
I didn't like that either...

...Isn't mess working for us? Why is it in the media that he wants to coach? He could have just talked to Glen...

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