HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Forbes: Phoenix Coyotes $170 Million Sale To Be Partially Funded By NHL

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-30-2013, 03:05 PM
  #51
LPHabsFan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,423
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to LPHabsFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhi19 View Post
Semantic that won't fly in court if challenged.
I have no idea where the court challenge comes from however I was just mentioning it because people were talking about how COG would "paying for the team" and due to the AMF going to loan repayment. I looked at that as people thinking that the COG would be getting the loan whereas it's moreso what RSE will be doing with it when they get it.

LPHabsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 03:12 PM
  #52
madhi19
Just the tip!
 
madhi19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cold and Dark place!
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,652
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
So then.... where is RSE getting the $6M from to pay back the loan to FIG... they are getting it from the CoG.

CoG ---> RSE ----> FIG

Yeah I know, but in a round about way, the CoG is paying off the loan.

But, for the CoG, the bigger issue is, how is RSE going to manage the arena if the money (assets to run the arena ) given to them goes to pay off the loan? From the CoG point of view it costs them $6M regardless of what RSE does with the money, but RSE will need to spend some money on managing the arena.
So they don't need 6 million from the CoG it more like 12 million. 6 to actually manage the building and 6 to service the debt and am not even counting interest.

madhi19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 03:26 PM
  #53
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ϶(°o°)ϵ
Posts: 31,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisOlivier View Post
Trent Hess 24 minutes ago
In what manner does RSE expect to collect the 120M from the CoG? Over five years? Ten? Fifteen?Called-out
commentPermalink Flag

Reply Author Mike Ozanian, Forbes Staff 14 minutes ago
Trent, Fortress puts in most of the $120 million when deal closes and all within 5 years.


So I understand that Fortress will give 120$M and RSE will pay back in 5 years?
Let's assume $12 MM from COG per year, over 5 yrs = $60 MM

Industry Growth Fund (funded to $60 MM over 3 years) = say half goes to Phoenix, since its at the commish's discretion, so that's another chunk.

NHL revenue transfer, revenue sharing and loan ($85 MM) covers the other costs of operating the team.

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 03:33 PM
  #54
sawchuk1971
Registered User
 
sawchuk1971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 709
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gyom999 View Post
Weird, the news has made it's way here (Quebecor's rivals.. 15h)
http://www.lapresse.ca/le-soleil/spo...7_accueil_POS3


But no words from any of Quebecor's sites/news.. yet. Normaly they are first on "coyote" news..
looks like the yotes will stay in phoenix...

sawchuk1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 03:35 PM
  #55
madhi19
Just the tip!
 
madhi19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cold and Dark place!
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,652
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Let's assume $12 MM from COG per year, over 5 yrs = $60 MM

Industry Growth Fund (funded to $60 MM over 3 years) = say half goes to Phoenix, since its at the commish's discretion, so that's another chunk.

NHL revenue transfer, revenue sharing and loan ($85 MM) covers the other costs of operating the team.
The Industry Growth Fund is not Garry slush fund they have to refill it if they take any money out. And I believe a committee will administer it.

madhi19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 03:40 PM
  #56
JB52
Registered User
 
JB52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Quebec City
Country: Canada
Posts: 431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawchuk1971 View Post
looks like the yotes will stay in phoenix...
I don't get how people get to that conclusion.

The deal is awful. Those RSE guys don't have money, they won't make any in Glendale and after 5 years, they will have 120 milions to repay. How can the COG look at that and say, oh yeah, lets give RSE 15 millions to manage the arena.

Yeah, it looks like the Coyotes will stay in Glendale, but because we're May 30.

JB52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 03:42 PM
  #57
wunderpanda
sabre of damocles
 
wunderpanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,191
vCash: 500
If CoG agrees to let Renaissance manage the arena, and they relocate or go bankrupt, who is responsible to pay the 120 loan?

wunderpanda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 03:44 PM
  #58
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 25,079
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhi19 View Post
The Industry Growth Fund is not Garry slush fund they have to refill it if they take any money out. And I believe a committee will administer it.
Well, they created a Revenue Sharing Oversite Committee which the NHLPA will have representation on, the Industry Growth Fund setup to make long-term improvements on low gross generating clubs, and that apparently is up to Bettmans discretion as to how those dollars are spent. Like you however, Ive gotta believe theres some kind of over-site, approval mechanisms.

Killion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 03:45 PM
  #59
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ϶(°o°)ϵ
Posts: 31,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wunderpanda View Post
If CoG agrees to let Renaissance manage the arena, and they relocate or go bankrupt, who is responsible to pay the 120 loan?

I imagine as a secured creditor, they'd get paid out once the team is sold for relocation. If bankruptcy is filed, they'd get paid out by BK (like Dell did) when the NHL purchases it in that manner (assuming that would happen again, which is unlikely since the league will be a secured creditor too, imo).

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 03:47 PM
  #60
IceAce
RAISED IN A BARN
 
IceAce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 4,326
vCash: 4500
I can't tell if that's a sweetheart deal for RSE? Or a sucker deal?

IceAce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 03:48 PM
  #61
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ϶(°o°)ϵ
Posts: 31,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhi19 View Post
The Industry Growth Fund is not Garry slush fund they have to refill it if they take any money out. And I believe a committee will administer it.
You sure about that, Madhi?

Money goes into the fund to HELP teams that need help. Fehr described it as a very direct/specific assistance mechanism for teams that are truly troubled. It's just moving money around.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Well, they created a Revenue Sharing Oversite Committee which the NHLPA will have representation on, the Industry Growth Fund setup to make long-term improvements on low gross generating clubs, and that apparently is up to Bettmans discretion as to how those dollars are spent. Like you however, Ive gotta believe theres some kind of over-site, approval mechanisms.

It would be in both the NHL and PA's interest to support a team that needs the help. While the PA may prefer a relocation to a stronger market, in order for that to actually happen, you need an owner, and an arena/destination (as you know).

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 03:49 PM
  #62
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ϶(°o°)ϵ
Posts: 31,605
vCash: 500
From the other thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfb392
Quote:
StephMartin5 Bill Daly a répondu à @cyblesoleil que l'article de @Forbes contient des inexactitudes (material inaccuracies) #Coyotes #LNH
http://twitter.com/StephMartin5/stat...99132868259840

NHL denial of the Forbes report.

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 04:02 PM
  #63
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ϶(°o°)ϵ
Posts: 31,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhi19 View Post
The Industry Growth Fund is not Garry slush fund they have to refill it if they take any money out. And I believe a committee will administer it.

Just to get this info out here again, so excuse the double quote:
$60M "Industry Growth Fund", funded by NHL and NHLPA over 3 years and replenished as needed
From mouser's post:
Revenue Sharing Eligibility
- Teams in a DMA over 3 million households (currently NY, LA, Chicago, Toronto) can now receive up to 50% of a full share. So the Islanders can receive revenue sharing. Previous CBA no team in a market over 2.5 million households could receive any revenue sharing.
- Minimum Team Player Compensation is redefined to be 70% of the Lower Limit. Previously it was a fixed value that increased % as HRR went up. I'd have to review the last CBA in more detail to see if this is a change and how much.
- All performance and revenue sharing reduced shares for not meeting growth or ticket thresholds are removed. (section 3)
Revenue Sharing Oversight Committee:
- New committee created "The RSOC will consist of three (3) members chosen by the NHLPA (including at least 1 Player) and four (4) members chosen by the Commissioner, including a Chairman (and also including at least 1 Owner). The Commissioner of the NHL and the Executive Director of the NHLPA shall serve as ex-officio members of the RSOC with all rights and privileges of a RSOC member, except voting rights."
- Committee has authority to review various club financial reporting, but not 100% guaranteed access to all business related books.
- Committee can vote to increase or decrease a particular team's revenue sharing distribution by up to 15%.
Next paragraph on Industry Growth Fund:
Industry Growth Fund
- "NHL will create a callable Industry Growth Fund providing access to capital of up to a maximum $60 million, which will be funded, where necessary, both initially and in successive years, by contributions of up to $20 million annually from centrally generated League revenues."
- Clubs not generating regular season gate revenues of at least 75% of league average are eligible for assistance from the fund. "All such Clubs will be required to submit business plans explaining the steps the Club intends to take in order to achieve an improved and acceptable level of business performance, and their continuing eligibility to receive revenue sharing funding can be conditioned on successfully executing on those plans."

To me it sounds like the financial metric is what qualifies the team for this distribution, not other parameters, beyond requiring a business plan to show they're trying to do something about it.

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 04:10 PM
  #64
cbcwpg
Registered User
 
cbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between the Pipes
Country: United Nations
Posts: 7,199
vCash: 500
^^^----

Revenue Sharing Eligibility

- Is your team named after a small dog-like animal. Full Eligibility.

cbcwpg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 04:14 PM
  #65
Confucius
Registered User
 
Confucius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
^^^----

Revenue Sharing Eligibility

- Is your team named after a small dog-like animal. Full Eligibility.
Yeah it sounds like there could be enough loopholes that whoever the league wants to give the cash to, they'll get it. Every team owner will want to be Gary's friend.

Confucius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 04:59 PM
  #66
Major4Boarding
Global Moderator
A Jelly Donut!?!
 
Major4Boarding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Heaven
Country: Scotland
Posts: 2,436
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas L View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
From Forbes:
And Fortress has something akin to warrants that will allow the hedge fund to swap its loan for equity that could ultimately give the firm a 20% equity stake in the hockey team.

I'm going to guess the language on this is pretty tight, but what it does do is fix terms and prices regardless of other market factors. It will be an option they may choose to exercise IF the team appreciates in value or is moved. I'm willing to bet the NHL has removed some of the risk they'd normally undertake. They're not the buyer of the team, but the 'bank'. The NHL and RSE are being creative financially to structure this deal. I think Fortress is a secured creditor in this case.
It's fairly standard in distressed asset lending if I'm not mistaken.
Much like SOF Investments, LP and the Panthers

http://www.floridaucc.com/UCCWEB/search.aspx

Search Name: Florida Panthers ---> UCC Number 200901476984

Major4Boarding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 05:13 PM
  #67
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 25,079
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
Much like SOF Investments, LP and the Panthers... Search Name: Florida Panthers ---> UCC Number 200901476984
.... oh for Gods sake M4B, hafta sign all kinds a disclaimers & legalese, then search 200901476984?! Dang you Floridians...

Killion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 05:33 PM
  #68
Undertakerqc
Registered User
 
Undertakerqc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,282
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
oh, if I'm the CoG I'm looking right through this... it's the NHL getting Glendale to pay them for 5 more years of the status quo under the guise of a "sale". I'd reject it out of hand. But then, I would have taken Balsillie's cash in the first place and called it a night.

but what I think is is so telling is that the NHL would rather pay for a team in Glendale for 5 more years than go to QC right now.
The NHL screwing Québec City is something we are getting used to. Maybe we can start a NA conference of the KHL here... **** you NHL...

Undertakerqc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 05:37 PM
  #69
Jeffrey
Registered User
 
Jeffrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,589
vCash: 50
Send a message via MSN to Jeffrey
I agree the NHL mafia is pissing me off big time as they continue to disrespect the biggest hockey markets in the wordl!

Jeffrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 05:38 PM
  #70
danishh
Dat Stache
 
danishh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: mtl/ott/somewhere
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,207
vCash: 50
somewhere in a white-collar prison Boots is wondering why he didnt wait to buy an NHL team. Never would've had to steal millions and commit fraud if he had just waited until the NHL was just giving franchises away.

danishh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 07:46 PM
  #71
htpwn
Registered User
 
htpwn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Poland
Posts: 14,215
vCash: 500
Wow. $45 million has got to be a new low for an NHL franchise during Bettman's tenure. Even expansion franchises in the early 1990's were going for more than that.

You have to wonder if the NHL actually bothered to run the franchise properly, not parade in a new ownership circus every couple months, and was as flexible as this initially, whether the franchise would have been sold for something respectable.

The way the deal is structured doesn't appear to be for the long-term in Phoenix. Debt aside, the business plan seems to be to try to turn it around in Phoenix in 5-10 years (7 years is the NHL's standard no-relocation agreement, 120/7=$17 milion/season) and if not, then recoup the losses by selling for relocation.

Now, let's see if Glendale is willing to play ball.

htpwn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 07:56 PM
  #72
Mandala
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 159
vCash: 500
End of game tactics

This Forbes leak is just one more way for the NHL to convince the COG to kick them out.

Looks more and more that Quebec City will have their team this year.

Mandala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 07:59 PM
  #73
aqib
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
All the other arena managers can't bring at least 41 dates with 13,000+ attending. It goes beyond just the arena, and the CoG has to factor in Westgate. I'm not suggesting $12M is a good deal for the CoG. I'm just suggesting they may go along with that in terms of a management fee in excess of $6M, and an agreement to funnel some additional revenue to the arena manager that Moyes and the NHL did not enjoy.
Just please stop. There is no way the 13K Coyotes patrons generate enough revenue to justify going far above $6 million. There are other arenas around the country without major league tenants that draw just fine and yes some of them are in cities that have other arenas there. Philly had the Spectrum open for years after opening a new arena. Chicago has the AllState arena. OKC had the Cox Convention Center (which has a 15K seat arena) right across the street from the Chesapeake Energy Arena.

aqib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 08:29 PM
  #74
Melrose Munch
Registered User
 
Melrose Munch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 15,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rj View Post
Can we rename the thread:

Coyotes Sold for $45 Million
rj I love you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
this reads to me as more proof that

a.) the NHL doesn't want to go to Quebec City if there is any way possible to avoid it
b.) the NHL has no confidence in the Phoenix market in the medium term, or else they wouldn't go interest free for the first 5 and they wouldn't offer equity

this team is basically destined for Seattle in 5 years even if the sale goes through
Basically. The controversies are too much.

Melrose Munch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 08:34 PM
  #75
thom
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,267
vCash: 500
I know its been Discussed why does the city just have a referumdum on the issue of tax payers money going in the hands of billionaire nhl owners?

thom is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:10 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.