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All Three Columbus First Rounders are in Play

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Old
05-31-2013, 01:56 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
Lets just trade Hemsky for Umberger and get it over with.

I don't ever want to hear Hemsky in a proposal again.
Sure what the hell.

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05-31-2013, 02:03 PM
  #102
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this isn't kesler's home...he just went to OSU...plus he and Umberger's relationship isn't good...bad deal...
He said it's like home.

Trade Umberber for Hemsky and that problem is solved. A playmaking winger like Hemsky is exactly what Kesler needs anyway...

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05-31-2013, 02:19 PM
  #103
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we're not gonna pay a premium to help out Vancouver's cap problems...that's for sure...

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05-31-2013, 02:59 PM
  #104
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One of those picks is at #19 and another is going to be in the bottom 4. Pavol Demitra (At age 32, coming off a 62 point season with a career peak of 89 points) returned a first round pick (17th overall) and (then) top prospect Patrick O'Sullivan. R.J. Umberger (At age 26 coming off a (then career high of) 50 points) returned a 1st pick (19th overall). It's not outrageous to suggest Ales Hemsky (At age 29, coming off a pro-rated season of 40 points) could return a pick in the 27-30 region.

Just two years ago, the much younger (25) but nowhere near the scorer (at his peak a 40 pointer who had dipped down to 36 points that year) Troy Brouwer returned a 26th pick.
All of your points make sense and some team who believes Hemsky/Omark are the final pieces for a cup run may very well trade a 1st round pick for this package.

I think Columbus could put those picks in play for skilled players who fit the mold JD/JK have built in Columbus. Physical, highly competitive young players. Examples might be Peter Forsberg, TJ Oshie or Wayne Simmonds types. Guys that will win board battles and have good hands too.

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05-31-2013, 03:33 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
All of your points make sense and some team who believes Hemsky/Omark are the final pieces for a cup run may very well trade a 1st round pick for this package.

I think Columbus could put those picks in play for skilled players who fit the mold JD/JK have built in Columbus. Physical, highly competitive young players. Examples might be Peter Forsberg, TJ Oshie or Wayne Simmonds types. Guys that will win board battles and have good hands too.
A little long in the tooth though, eh? Don't get me wrong Peter Forskin was a heckuva player.

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05-31-2013, 03:36 PM
  #106
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A little long in the tooth though, eh? Don't get me wrong Peter Forskin was a heckuva player.
Those were examples of player types, not specific players.

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05-31-2013, 03:41 PM
  #107
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You really know absolutely nothing about the Jackets. Also, I can tell you for sure they aren't looking for cap dumps on the back end of their careers. What does that do to improve the team?
How do you see the Blue Jackets? Even with your goalie playing at a Vezina level this year they weren't able to make the playoffs.

Like I said the D is good, the goaltending was good this year but Bob still needs to prove it over a longer period of time to convince me but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he can be a good goalie. I only see one player that could be considered a 1st line forward in Gaborik and your 2nd liners like Foligno/Dubinsky/Anisimov were more like tweeners for the the Sens/Rangers. I also don't see a blue-chip forward in your prospect pool.

Your team has 3 choices:

-Overpay to attract free agents because that is the only they'll quality free agents want to go there
-Next choice is trading top assets like 1st round picks for good value contracts but then your out those assets which hurts your team for years
-3rd choice is trading for players in a down period of their career that can bounce back and give up little assets like lower pick in return

Please feel free to educate me though.

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05-31-2013, 03:43 PM
  #108
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Blue Jackets need to get to the playoffs, how about Kessel for all three picks and a prospect.

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05-31-2013, 03:51 PM
  #109
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I'm not surprised at all the 3 picks are in play.. JD and Jarmo once offered all 3 of their 2007 1st rounders to Chicago for the 1st overall.. I have no doubt they are trying to do something big. I am so glad they aren't in the division anymore.

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05-31-2013, 04:08 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by FreeBird View Post
Blue Jackets need to get to the playoffs, how about Kessel for all three picks and a prospect.

Here's another one you can sign me up for. Let's call JK and get'er done.


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05-31-2013, 04:09 PM
  #111
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How do you see the Blue Jackets? Even with your goalie playing at a Vezina level this year they weren't able to make the playoffs.

Like I said the D is good, the goaltending was good this year but Bob still needs to prove it over a longer period of time to convince me but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he can be a good goalie. I only see one player that could be considered a 1st line forward in Gaborik and your 2nd liners like Foligno/Dubinsky/Anisimov were more like tweeners for the the Sens/Rangers. I also don't see a blue-chip forward in your prospect pool.

Your team has 3 choices:

-Overpay to attract free agents because that is the only they'll quality free agents want to go there
-Next choice is trading top assets like 1st round picks for good value contracts but then your out those assets which hurts your team for years
-3rd choice is trading for players in a down period of their career that can bounce back and give up little assets like lower pick in return

Please feel free to educate me though.
Only 3??

Surely you can be more creative than that.

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05-31-2013, 04:23 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
How do you see the Blue Jackets? Even with your goalie playing at a Vezina level this year they weren't able to make the playoffs.

Like I said the D is good, the goaltending was good this year but Bob still needs to prove it over a longer period of time to convince me but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he can be a good goalie. I only see one player that could be considered a 1st line forward in Gaborik and your 2nd liners like Foligno/Dubinsky/Anisimov were more like tweeners for the the Sens/Rangers. I also don't see a blue-chip forward in your prospect pool.

Your team has 3 choices:

-Overpay to attract free agents because that is the only they'll quality free agents want to go there
-Next choice is trading top assets like 1st round picks for good value contracts but then your out those assets which hurts your team for years
-3rd choice is trading for players in a down period of their career that can bounce back and give up little assets like lower pick in return

Please feel free to educate me though.
No blue-chip forward in the prospect pool, so acquiring a young blue-chip forward via trade involving one or two of those first round picks is a bad idea?

And I love your choice #2. If they move a first round pick or two for productive young players on "good value contracts", I fail to see how being "out" those picks is harming the team "for years."

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05-31-2013, 04:42 PM
  #113
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Blue Jackets need to get to the playoffs, how about Kessel for all three picks and a prospect.
Nope. Nope. Nope.

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05-31-2013, 05:01 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
No blue-chip forward in the prospect pool, so acquiring a young blue-chip forward via trade involving one or two of those first round picks is a bad idea?

And I love your choice #2. If they move a first round pick or two for productive young players on "good value contracts", I fail to see how being "out" those picks is harming the team "for years."
Option # 2 is a viable option but even if your team acquires a good 2nd liner type player they're still very far from being a legitimate contender.

I still think the Blue Jackets should look to take on a player that is still a good player albeit one that has quite a few good years that is currently overpaid but will most likely get back to a higher level that has less then than 5 years on their contract. Essentially target a buy low candidate like Grabovski, T. Ruutu, Perron.

Blue Jackets have cap space which to me should be their biggest trading strength and save up all the picks they can to draft high and frequently so they can buiild like St. Louis did.

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05-31-2013, 05:05 PM
  #115
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Blue Jackets need to get to the playoffs, how about Kessel for all three picks and a prospect.
Nope. Honestly, there aren't many names mentioned here I would be happy to see going to Columbus in any draft-related trades. Just spit-balling here, but one player I would kind of be interested in is Burmistrov. Jets fans can help me out here, but I remember hearing a couple weeks ago he was pretty discontent/looking for a way out there?

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05-31-2013, 05:13 PM
  #116
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How do you see the Blue Jackets? Even with your goalie playing at a Vezina level this year they weren't able to make the playoffs.

Like I said the D is good, the goaltending was good this year but Bob still needs to prove it over a longer period of time to convince me but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he can be a good goalie. I only see one player that could be considered a 1st line forward in Gaborik and your 2nd liners like Foligno/Dubinsky/Anisimov were more like tweeners for the the Sens/Rangers. I also don't see a blue-chip forward in your prospect pool.

Your team has 3 choices:

-Overpay to attract free agents because that is the only they'll quality free agents want to go there
-Next choice is trading top assets like 1st round picks for good value contracts but then your out those assets which hurts your team for years
-3rd choice is trading for players in a down period of their career that can bounce back and give up little assets like lower pick in return

Please feel free to educate me though.

There is a 4th choice. Senior management has said over and over the plan is to continue changing the culture and competitive level of the entire franchise, from the ECHL level through the big club. They have already stated they value work ethic over pure skill.

Most Columbus fans are already tired of hearing John Davidson say, "We are going to build this team brick by brick."

I think this negates all three of the options you listed.I suspect any trades will be for players who fill a need like top 6 forward and have a very high compete level. Guys who are very physical and resilient.

I see a team built much like the Blues, Bruins, Ducks.

Big, mean, fast teams.

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05-31-2013, 05:17 PM
  #117
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05-31-2013, 05:24 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
There is a 4th choice. Senior management has said over and over the plan is to continue changing the culture and competitive level of the entire franchise, from the ECHL level through the big club. They have already stated they value work ethic over pure skill.

Most Columbus fans are already tired of hearing John Davidson say, "We are going to build this team brick by brick."

I think this negates all three of the options you listed.I suspect any trades will be for players who fill a need like top 6 forward and have a very high compete level. Guys who are very physical and resilient.

I see a team built much like the Blues, Bruins, Ducks.

Big, mean, fast teams.
Those big, mean, fast teams are also highly skilled and the Blue Jackets don't have forwards near that level.

Most of those forwards that those teams have were acquired through the draft and the Blue Jackets are multiple pieces away from contending so I suggest they take the patient draft and develop approach (or as Davidson said: build the team brick by brick).

Otherwise you're moving one step further by trading for an impact player but moving one step back in the future and will continue to stay in that middle ground.

Taking the patient approach well also acquiring buy low candidates on deal of less than 4 seasons would be the approach I'd take. It's the same approach the Leafs took to rebuild and that the Panthers have been taking.

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05-31-2013, 05:36 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
There is a 4th choice. Senior management has said over and over the plan is to continue changing the culture and competitive level of the entire franchise, from the ECHL level through the big club. They have already stated they value work ethic over pure skill.

Most Columbus fans are already tired of hearing John Davidson say, "We are going to build this team brick by brick."

I think this negates all three of the options you listed.I suspect any trades will be for players who fill a need like top 6 forward and have a very high compete level. Guys who are very physical and resilient.

I see a team built much like the Blues, Bruins, Ducks.

Big, mean, fast teams.
Ryan Kesler is probably the guy they covet most then. He personifies every one of these attributes.

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05-31-2013, 05:40 PM
  #120
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JARMO will manipulate the draft, he'll use some to trade down to acquire more picks, maybe find a sucker that'll trade him a future first for one of his + a pick this year. doubt they are looking to bring in high money players

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05-31-2013, 05:56 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
How do you see the Blue Jackets? Even with your goalie playing at a Vezina level this year they weren't able to make the playoffs.

Like I said the D is good, the goaltending was good this year but Bob still needs to prove it over a longer period of time to convince me but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he can be a good goalie. I only see one player that could be considered a 1st line forward in Gaborik and your 2nd liners like Foligno/Dubinsky/Anisimov were more like tweeners for the the Sens/Rangers. I also don't see a blue-chip forward in your prospect pool.

Your team has 3 choices:

-Overpay to attract free agents because that is the only they'll quality free agents want to go there
-Next choice is trading top assets like 1st round picks for good value contracts but then your out those assets which hurts your team for years
-3rd choice is trading for players in a down period of their career that can bounce back and give up little assets like lower pick in return

Please feel free to educate me though.
To your bolded... you only see the end result, not the path to get there. CBJ was one of the worst teams in the NHL for the first 19 games. The last 29 they were a top 5 team in the NHL, not the division, not the conference, the NHL. A stretch of 19-5-5 will do that. I recognize this wasn't a full season but with the number of new players, a new system and finally allowing Bob to take over.... end result was a solid team.

The team needs some scoring on the top lines. that's what the picks are likely to be used for.

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05-31-2013, 06:15 PM
  #122
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Those big, mean, fast teams are also highly skilled and the Blue Jackets don't have forwards near that level.

Most of those forwards that those teams have were acquired through the draft and the Blue Jackets are multiple pieces away from contending so I suggest they take the patient draft and develop approach (or as Davidson said: build the team brick by brick).

Otherwise you're moving one step further by trading for an impact player but moving one step back in the future and will continue to stay in that middle ground.

Taking the patient approach well also acquiring buy low candidates on deal of less than 4 seasons would be the approach I'd take. It's the same approach the Leafs took to rebuild and that the Panthers have been taking.

Here's a news flash. Columbus fans know they don't have the skill yet. Why do you seem to insist they must have it immediately?

I suspect they will either build throughout the draft and make a few selective trades picks for players on ELCs or 2nd contracts. In the meanwhile, I expect they will be a hardworking, fast and physical team that needs a bit of skill but will be very hard to play against.

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05-31-2013, 07:00 PM
  #123
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Pretty funny post. The team, as constructed this year, was Scott Howson's team. I'm not a Howson fanboy but he got the CBJ their 3 first round picks AND put the roster on the ice that got the CBJ in contention. The addition of Gaborik did not have an impact on draft position either way and if you knew anything about the CBJ you would realize that Brassard did not have anywhere near the success in his 6 years with the CBJ as he has had in his short time with the Rangers. John Moore had become the odd man out on the defensive end due to injury and being passed by Prout and Erixon. Both can be solid players (Moore is the best asset in that deal) but they did not have any impact on the CBJ draft position. Were you aware that Moore nor Dorsett were playing at the time of the trade and that Brassard was playing well but nothing more than a 3rd line center (of which CBJ had others to handle that role.

I'm not sure how Davidson "squandered the chance of drafting someone like Lindholm or Monahan...." I'd ask you to enlighten me but this isn't the thread for that I suppose. Suffice it to say the NYR/CBJ trade was good for both teams and had no impact on draft position. It was also the only significant modification to the roster outside of Howson's moves that, currently, will have any impact beyond this season.
It's pretty clear that JD should have either decided to trade some present assets and get some more picks late 1st early 2nd this year; or he could have traded for an actual impact player or two that got them into the playoffs. He did neither, he traded for someone that just allowed them to hang in contention until late in the season (who actually was less of an impact than Brassard given their performances after the deal, kind of ironic), but not sufficient for them to actually become a real playoff team. This is like the worst decision anyone could possibly have made regarding the team at that juncture.

Had Davidson decided to deal present assets, and fold this year, the team would likely have been in the position to draft someone like Lindholm or Monahan, finishing well out of the playoff picture. He could have packaged something like a 6th or 7th pick (which he would have if he tanked), with other picks (e.g. the 19th) or other assets, to try to pry #3 from TB (since they would like to target D and Jones would be gone by then) and draft Drouin, who could be a long term solution as a premier forward on the team.

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05-31-2013, 08:17 PM
  #124
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Yes and no. Hemsky comes in next year, finds chemistry with Gaborik and puts up 60+ points and helps you get into the playoffs, he's already earned that late 1st pick. Hemsky comes in next year, gets hurt and/or struggles, you dump him at the deadline for a 2nd/3rd rounder and you've only dropped 10-20 spots in the draft. You also have his $5 million cap hit off the books in one year to use on re-signing Gaborik.

The UFA after the season decreasing value thing is partly true and partly myth. Brent Burns was one year removed from being a UFA when he returned, essentially, three first rounders.


Hemsky's not going to draw any Pavel Datsyuk comparisions, but he's hardly a defensive liability. I know you can't judge anything/everything on +/- but the fact that he was a positive player on two of the worst teams in Oilers history, shows that he's not a defensive blackhole. I think he's actually fairly underrated when it comes to defence.


Hemsky has settled into about a 40 point groove the last two seasons, but he's only two years removed from being on a consistent 65-80 point pace.

I actually think that Hemsky for a 26-30 draft pick could be the steal of the offseason if some team were to pull it off. The biggest thing I think that Hemsky has going for him that Martin Havlat doesn't is that contract flexibility. If you trade a 26-30 draft pick for Hemsky and Hemsky doesn't pan out, at worst, you've given up a prospect for a guy you wave goodbye to next summer (That's assuming he has no value at the deadline). If you trade for Havlat and he doesn't pan out, you still have another year of him in which you owe him an extra $1 million in addition to his $5 million cap hit. Hemsky gives you flexibility, if he works with Gaborik or makes Johansen more of a consistent offensive threat, then you can work with him on a new contract or still let him go for space. If he doesn't, you simply cut your losses at the end of the year. If Havlat works out, then great, but his $5 million cap hit for the following season is cap hit that could be used for Gaborik and represents real dollars that your ownership would have to spend to get rid of him. I think it's Hemsky over Havlat by a mile.
Columbus already has gaborik.. that means they have 2 injury prone Fowards on there team... if both go down that be could be trouble... plus theres always tanguay WHO BTW might look sweet setting up gaborik

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05-31-2013, 08:27 PM
  #125
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Had Davidson decided to deal present assets, and fold this year, the team would likely have been in the position to draft someone like Lindholm or Monahan, finishing well out of the playoff picture. He could have packaged something like a 6th or 7th pick (which he would have if he tanked), with other picks (e.g. the 19th) or other assets, to try to pry #3 from TB (since they would like to target D and Jones would be gone by then) and draft Drouin, who could be a long term solution as a premier forward on the team.
I would be greatly amused to see his reaction to those suggestions were you to ask him why he didn't do that.

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