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Has your opinion of Regier changed?

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Old
07-08-2013, 01:35 AM
  #1
jBuds
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Has your opinion of Regier changed?

Pretty straightforward question:

after the draft and FA frenzy specifically, and combined with the moves we've seen the last year plus, have any of you that loathe Regier eased up at all?

Are you at least curious to see where he takes this organizational retooling? Or are your opinions already solidly formed from the prior decade of sample?

I posed this question at the end of the season - has your opinion of him changed since then? Even those like me who are willing to let him drive this rebuild? Curious to know what, if anything, will alter opinions either way (besides FSE's obvious "a Cup" reply)

Just curious. Be honest.

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07-08-2013, 02:03 AM
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I've said before, I wouldn't have minded if he was fired when Pegula took over.

However, looking at the past two years, he's done an incredible, INCREDIBLE job restocking the prospect pool. I still don't know if he knows how to put together a cup contending team in today's NHL, but I'm willing to give him one last chance. He's gathered some excellent prospects and I want to see if he can make the team a winner. If he fails, obviously it's time to move on, it's probably past that time, but he's been given a chance by Pegula, so I'm not going to complain about something that I can't change because looking at the situation objectively, he's done a good job the last two years. Not a single top 5 pick and the talent he's managed to gather is excellent.

Obviously our team's actual success on the ice could be a lot better, but we're rebuilding, I've accepted that. I'm willing to accept some suffering if it means we're going to be consistent contenders later.


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Old
07-08-2013, 02:05 AM
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I'm going back and forth. I was frustrated about the Gerbe buyout and every free agency is frustrating because we never land anything significant. However, with some perspective I understand why Gerbe was bought out (although I still think he should have been given his last year on the contract to bounce back, but who knows what management knows that we don't) and seeing what kind of outrageous contracts were being handed out on FA opening day, I think standing pat was a good move. And yes, it was frustrating to see Senators get Bobby Ryan, but I wouldn't have wanted Darcy to pay what Senators did to get him so...

I'm happy with how the draft went, and I think we did good in last years draft too. I think Darcy has gotten good value out of the trades he's made last couple of years. The latest trade to add Tallinder is another good one. Adding veteran leadership is needed to develop the young guns, and sure, it's a babysitter for Myers but if that's what he needs to get back on track then fine.

So as I said, I'm going back and forth but really, when I look at the deals made and the contracts handed out, I can't really complain. I'm curious to see where this takes us and what the team will look like going forward. The moves made last couple of years looks like there's a plan, a vision. I can live with keeping Regier onboard and see it through.

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07-08-2013, 02:30 AM
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My biggest issue with Regier remains, I have no idea what the guys plan is. When I see him stick to a plan I feel better. I am seeing a plan right now, but that could change any minute with Regier. I dont trust him. I dont really know him. Its strange to say that after 15 years.

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07-08-2013, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stop Winnin View Post
I've said before, I wouldn't have minded if he was fired when Pegula took over.

However, looking at the past two years, he's done an incredible, INCREDIBLE job restocking the prospect pool. I still don't know if he knows how to put together a cup contending team in today's NHL, but I'm willing to give him one last chance. He's gathered some excellent prospects and I want to see if he can make the team a winner. If he fails, obviously it's time to move on, it's probably past that time, but he's been given a chance by Pegula, so I'm not going to complain about something that I can't change because looking at the situation objectively, he's done a good job the last two years. Not a single top 5 pick and the talent he's managed to gather is excellent.
Basically how I feel. My biggest fear with Regier is that Devine and staff will be able to draft him the pieces he will need but he will be too stubborn to pay the price required to put the team into the top tier.

He's also going to have to improve with the pro scouting aspect of the job if the team ever wants to win it all. This is a guy who jerked around Mike Peca within days off taking the offer with multiple great offers on the table only to settle for prospects and no replacement. Let Steve Begin get claimed on waivers when he said he wanted to make the team tougher. Chris Thorburn too for that matter. Essentially gave away Jan Hejda and Dennis Wideman because he preferred Nathan Paetsch. His moves acquiring players at the trade deadline have for the most part been complete failures except possibly Zubrus although I wasn't nearly as high on him as some. To top it off Chris Drury the main catalyst in those great 05-07 teams wasn't even Regier's idea it was Neil Smiths.

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Old
07-08-2013, 02:50 AM
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Regier has always been ood with drafting.

His issues are:

1. taking risks

2. trades when everyone is bidding....thus he has to overpay. Trade deadline deals when he is the buyer--not the seller.

3. Trying to get the max value for his own players---see Stafford and Afinaganov.

He is better with under the radar trades (Drury trade, Brierre trade) or when he is the seller (Pominville trade, trades from the early 2000s)

So even if he is great in stockpiling the young players I have serious reservations on him being able to make a trade like what Ottawa did to get a Bobby Ryan type where it was a give up 2 young players + 1st for this star player.

Part of the problem has been the different owners and working in the different environments. He has gone through 5 different owners Knox, Rigas,NHL, Golasano, and Pegs.

the belief is Golisano was very influential in cutting the scouting staff thus hurting their ability to draft and retain free agents by offering them the money.

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07-08-2013, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moskau View Post

He's also going to have to improve with the pro scouting aspect of the job if the team ever wants to win it all. This is a guy who jerked around Mike Peca within days off taking the offer with multiple great offers on the table only to settle for prospects and no replacement. Let Steve Begin get claimed on waivers when he said he wanted to make the team tougher. Chris Thorburn too for that matter. Essentially gave away Jan Hejda and Dennis Wideman because he preferred Nathan Paetsch. His moves acquiring players at the trade deadline have for the most part been complete failures
I dont put much weight on these....Darcy has actually done a pretty good job drafting late round talent.

Begin was an October waiver draft claim. Buffalo's hands were tied in this because who they unprotected likely would get claimed instead.

I think thorburn was also an October preseason move that he got claimed bu Pittsburgh. This happens. Every GM has lost someone from this.

Hejda seemed to refuse to sign so they dealt his rights.

Wideman ---they debated who to keep and who to not tender an offer to. This is anoth example where every team you can likely find an example of a player they drafted and lost because they did not tender an offer for then 2 years after drafting them.

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Old
07-08-2013, 07:32 AM
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We can micro-analyze all we want, and anyone can argue that Darcy has made some great moves over the years.

But the bottom line is that he has had 15 years at the helm, and the team is not better off now than when he began his tenure. In fact, we are in full-on rebuild - which is by any measure a failure to construct a winner. There's nothing to lose by giving someone else a turn at the reins. Darcy is a solid GM, but is he so indispensable that the team will fall apart without him? Considering it already fell apart with him, I highly doubt it.

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07-08-2013, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by skibum View Post
We can micro-analyze all we want, and anyone can argue that Darcy has made some great moves over the years.

But the bottom line is that he has had 15 years at the helm, and the team is not better off now than when he began his tenure. In fact, we are in full-on rebuild - which is by any measure a failure to construct a winner. There's nothing to lose by giving someone else a turn at the reins. Darcy is a solid GM, but is he so indispensable that the team will fall apart without him? Considering it already fell apart with him, I highly doubt it.
Posited well... And I'm a supporter of Regier. I think those who aren't in his camp will agree with your sentiments, and I don't expect many to come into this thread and express revelations about new found opinions on the man. I'm still curious if any have eased up a bit with regards to the vitriol.

My response would be that I don't know if things are beneficially different with someone else manning the fort. While we haven't achieved the ultimate goal, we've had some good teams, a great team, an answer between the pipes for the most part... and we survived some pretty lean times with regards to who owned the team.

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Old
07-08-2013, 09:00 AM
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I don't really see what about this offseason could have changed anyone's opinions on Darcy as a GM. He drafted well, as he has done with Devine. Regarding free agency, he was clear about where things are at, going with the young guys and providing veterans merely in support roles. His handling so far of Vanek and Miller seems pretty consistent with his track record.

It seems these two things are what people are focusing on:
#1 His decision to go with the young guns. In other words, this is a rebuild year. I don't see any other reasonable way of going forward. I'm confident any other halfway-decent GM would have the same outlook.
#2 The fact he hasn't yet traded Miller or Vanek is worrying the impatient. That's understandable, but seeing as how it's consistent with how he's always been, I'm not sure how it could change one's opinion. The ultimate judgement on how he handled the two should wait until the situation's actually been resolved.

As to my (unchanged) opinion of Regier, he's a good GM with strengths and flaws. I'm fairly indifferent towards whether or not they keep him, but they better have a plan already in place if they relieve him of duty. Firing a GM isn't like firing a coach.

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07-08-2013, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum View Post
But the bottom line is that he has had 15 years at the helm, and the team is not better off now than when he began his tenure. In fact, we are in full-on rebuild - which is by any measure a failure to construct a winner.
I think that's over-simplifying things a bit.
It has not been purely Darcy's ship for 15 years. He's had different owners, different financial end games, different constraints.
And let us not forget, he has built some very successful teams with less assets to work with.

The good news is, the current plan plays to his strengths. That would include but not be limited to: shrewd trades of current assets for futures and core acquirement through drafting and development. This how he built the last successful Sabre team.

To answer the OP-
I was very confident in Regier and Devine entering the draft and they did not disappoint. However, Regier is in murky waters with regards to Miller and Vanek and unfortunately, his handling of those situations is how his summer work will be judged by the Buffalo masses. I worry that his hands are tied by circumstances and there will not be a trade scenario that he feels comfortable with. His hand is being forced in a way and that does not play to his strengths as a GM. I'm fine with him holding on to Vanek until the trade deadline if the return is not there this summer. There will be a deal on the table at that point for sure (unless he's hurt). Miller on the other hand, is a very sticky situation and I'm not sure how that can be sorted out.

I liked the draft. I liked the passes on FAs. I liked the Tallinder move.
But I'm nervous about his handling of the two vets.


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Old
07-08-2013, 09:15 AM
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Regier is an OK GM.

He'll never be great because he's a coward.

I wanted him gone years ago, but he isn't. So there is no way we can get rid of him now. We are in a rebuild and switching GM's in the middle of that is a bad idea.

So I guess Regier gets one more chance.

Expectations: he builds a good team that has a couple good years, that never wins a cup.

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07-08-2013, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
Regier is an OK GM.

He'll never be great because he's a coward.

I wanted him gone years ago, but he isn't. So there is no way we can get rid of him now. We are in a rebuild and switching GM's in the middle of that is a bad idea.

So I guess Regier gets one more chance.

Expectations: he builds a good team that has a couple good years, that never wins a cup.
They can switch GMs but you have to have an ideal candidate lined up, one who understands the pieces in play. Realistically it'd probably be a mistake to replace him next offseason but as things start to settle in place you can bring in another GM to finish the job if you don't have confidence in him.

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07-08-2013, 09:35 AM
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I've always been a lukewarm Regier backer. The guy doesn't do anything great enough to make up for his lack of decisiveness. I feel like we're seeing that now with him waiting out the goalie market, which grinds me especially right now because the stakes are so high and his actions and explanations seem so shortsighted. I think it would probably be best to replace him at this point.

Seriously, most people on this board, with the proper support of ownership, could trade Gaustad, Pominville, Sekera, Regehr and Leopold in just over a year and end up getting a deep bevy of draft picks back. I agree that the Sabres have done a good job stockpiling picks. I don't think it's probably that difficult, though, if you're willing to gut your roster and ownership will let you. As for the actual drafting, we should split credit with Devine at the least.

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07-08-2013, 09:39 AM
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My opinion hasn't changed at all. I can say he did a great job with some moves, but this business is about winning, and winning the cup. Close to 16 years and this guy has gotten us to 1 Stanley Cup final, and 2 Conference Finals that we couldn't win.

I Don't think he is aggressive enough in improving the team or changing the team. It took him 6 years to finally see the team needed to get bigger and nastier. He is too stubborn to go with the times, and constantly trying to be "ahead" of the times, yet he comes off clueless why his team is constantly vying for middle of the road rankings and is drafting in the middle most years.

I'm 27, I've been a Sabres fan for 21 years, Darcy has been GM for 16 of those 21 years. He's the luckiest man I know. Seems every few years the Sabres get new owners, and so he gets a break by each Ownership(Rigas, NHL, Golisano, Pegula). Hopefully, we won't have another ownership change in the next two years so Darcy can be Kept.

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07-08-2013, 10:07 AM
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No, not so far, no. I understand why he is doing what he is doing, even if I don't always agree with what he is doing or how long it takes him to do it. It doesn't mean I support him any more now than when he started as I still think a fresh voice at the top is needed to reshape the on-ice product and change the way the team in perceived among players. Perhaps, much like Rolston, this part can be viewed as the transitional GM phase where when they get closer to the end product, a more decisive manager can be installed to put them over the top. Until then, Regier is the steward.

I have no issue with him seemingly sticking to the plan so far -- they haven't made any foolish UFA signings, picked up some character guys, improved his short-term vet D depth on the cheap. He also used the picks he had to refill the prospect pool rather than spending them on trading up or on stop-gap measures.

I'm curious to see what he can get for Stafford, Miller and Vanek. His stance on sticking to the rebuild -- not dealing youngsters or picks, not signing mid-line UFA's -- leads me to believe he will deal both Vanek and Miller regardless of any other public comments by him, Black, or Pegula. His verbage about those two has been consistent -- would like to sign them, would be open to sign them but it is up to the players. The players are likely to want out, giving him the out and softening any negative splash back on him in the court of public opinion.

I'm also curious to see what other transitional player or players he brings in and if he can get more help for the farm team, which in particular would be flying in the face of his past, as the Amerks need some vet scoring to support the kids.

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07-08-2013, 10:17 AM
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I'm one of the few who has always been a supporter of Regier. I started losing faith in him after the 07-08 season, but he slowly gained my confidence back. I think there are much, much worse options than him, and I don't want another GM coming in NOW and taking over. I like how Regier is handling the rebuild.

I'm praying to god he can build a contender sooner rather than later. I would love to watch all of you eat crow! =P

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07-08-2013, 10:24 AM
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Opinion hasn't changed. I like what he's doing right now in committing to the rebuild and not trying to scratch into the playoffs.

Very interested to see how he handles the Miller / Vanek situations.

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07-08-2013, 10:34 AM
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I think Darcy and Rolston are the perfect tandem for the current situation.

Rolston has the unenviable task of trying to win with a young depleted roster but any astute owners / GMs will observe how the team performs and not judge the wins/losses too harshly.

Darcy has the task of steering the ship into the uncharted rebuilding waters while avoiding the over-priced UFA sandbars and the youth-for-vet shoals.

Bringing in a new GM along with a new coach right now would be disastrous. They would feel the urgency for immediate improvement and would negate any rebuilding traction. Unless Miller and Vanek are moved for futures, the team is probably too good for a bottom 3 finish, but the youth will get their minutes and lumps while building for the future.

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Old
07-08-2013, 10:42 AM
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Nope.

I would have preferred he be let go, but it became clear that wasn't happening. So I will judge him based on the moves he has made since Terry took over and what kind of progress the team makes over the next 2 seasons.

Most of the moves he has made have made a lot of sense and I view as good deals. I think he's doing a hell of a job stocking players.

Now, whether or not that can translate to winning down the road remains to be sense. I'm not as confident on that, but have an open mind.

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07-08-2013, 11:11 AM
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He's a mediocre GM who's gotten largely mediocre results.

This past few weeks have gone about as I expected.

So, no, my opinion on Regier hasn't changed.

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07-08-2013, 11:48 AM
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Nope he's still a GM who brings in zero results but enjoys concrete job security.

I'm not as enamored with the prospects as a lot of people, there are practically zero high end prospects outside of Grigorenko and possibly Armia. The Sabres always seem to have a "top 5 prospect core" yet do nothing year after year. And before everyone plans a parade with our best prospects in the league I seem to remember a time in the late 90s when the Sabres were ranked #1 for prospects and how Mika Noronen was voted best prospect in the league. We supposedly had 3 "Vezina caliber goalies" and one turned out to be a complete bust, the other is now a career backup and the third , albeit a very good goalie is now being ran out of Buffalo. So no, we don't have a top group of prospects. We have no top end LW prospect to replace Vanek, hell we don't have any prospect to replace Vanek. Thomas Vanek is arguably the greatest goal scorer in franchise history and he doesn't even want to be here because of this half assed rebuild.

Oh yeah you think the players got the memo that we have to intentionally tank to get a top 5 pick? Because I would bet that they will play outside their talent and land in the 7-14 spot for a pick, not top 5. Good luck trying to get an elite FA in 2014, because I am sure they would love to play for a team that intentionally tries to be bad.

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Old
07-08-2013, 11:54 AM
  #23
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Nah.

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07-08-2013, 11:56 AM
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I don't hate Regier at all.

He's managed to form the best prospect pool in the NHL after the core didn't get it done, that's pretty impressive.

I'll like him even more if he ships out Miller and keeps Vanek.

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07-08-2013, 11:57 AM
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This franchise has sunk so low, I'd almost prefer having John Rigas running it from his prison cell.

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