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Cole's Plus/Minus: Game 1 - The one that we got zero

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Old
06-02-2013, 06:19 PM
  #501
Jahodac
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
this, this, a million times this.

stop whining about calls. it reflects poorly on every pens fan. i hate when other fans do it, i hate when pens fans do it.

cant you people see what petty homers you look like?

bottom line is pens didnt play good enough to win. lets talk about that insead of blaming outside factors.
This! It's the Penguins' fault they didn't adjust to what the refs were calling. Sometimes things aren't fair, sometimes things are. It seems on here that officiating is only a problem when the Penguins lose. It wasn't too long ago that Penguins fans were ripping on Islander and Senator fans over the same officiating complaints. Let's face it, winning a championship isn't easy and you have to play through adversity, including some games that don't get called the way you prefer. Penguins lost and are down 1-0, and no amount of complaining about the officiating will change that.

"Don't find fault, find a remedy" - Henry Ford

The series is very much alive, the Penguins will win tomorrow!

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06-02-2013, 06:20 PM
  #502
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Agree with this.

Part of me kind've wants to see both series go to 7. Obviously with Pittsburgh going through just to see the scheduling hell that would ensure in getting the final done before the draft.
I just wanna see us get out of this round...I don't care how...just win

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06-02-2013, 06:21 PM
  #503
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Listening to the Steve Dangle podcast. Comes up with some good points. Talking about how the Bruins are giving out a "punk test" and everyone is failing going against it meaning they can really do what they want. Also mentioned that Pittsburgh have players like Murray, Engelland etc who should be doing the jarring and fighting. Not Crosby and Malkin.

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06-02-2013, 06:25 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Listening to the Steve Dangle podcast. Comes up with some good points. Talking about how the Bruins are giving out a "punk test" and everyone is failing going against it meaning they can really do what they want. Also mentioned that Pittsburgh have players like Murray, Engelland etc who should be doing the jarring and fighting. Not Crosby and Malkin.
Remember Toews losing it vs Wings? Doesn't behoove these stars to be blowing gaskets.

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06-02-2013, 06:36 PM
  #505
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I donīt think complaining about the refs is a particularly bad thing. Part of me thinks that it was no coincidence that the game was officiated the way it was. It looked like every call went the Bruinsī way.. I think it could be the result of massive campaign that the Bruins did in the media before the series.

Now itīs our turn to put some pressure on the refs and eventually get some bonus calls for us. Remember what the Sharks did against the Kings after game 2? They were whining about the refs and got fined by 100000 bucks. Those were very well invested money, the other game the refs were completely different. I am absolutely OK with our boys calling out the officiating after the game, they were right in what they were saying and they also did the thing, which was necessary. Could only help us.

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06-02-2013, 06:38 PM
  #506
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I donīt think complaining about the refs is a particularly bad thing. Part of me thinks that it was no coincidence that the game was officiated the way it was. It looked like every call went the Bruinsī way.. I think it could be the result of massive campaign that the Bruins did in the media before the series.

Now itīs our turn to put some pressure on the refs and eventually get some bonus calls for us. Remember what the Sharks did against the Kings after game 2? They were whining about the refs and got fined by 100000 bucks. Those were very well invested money, the other game the refs were completely different. I am absolutely OK with our boys calling out the officiating after the game, they were right in what they were saying and they also did the thing, which was necessary. Could only help us.
Same, I am more than glad that they're calling them out. The refs have to their job, but like some of the guys here said, the refs aren't completely responsible for the score, we didn't execute on some really good chances

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06-02-2013, 06:50 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Listening to the Steve Dangle podcast. Comes up with some good points. Talking about how the Bruins are giving out a "punk test" and everyone is failing going against it meaning they can really do what they want. Also mentioned that Pittsburgh have players like Murray, Engelland etc who should be doing the jarring and fighting. Not Crosby and Malkin.
This is what has pissed me off about the Pens for the last year or two. It's great that Sid and Geno can and will stand up for themselves. But they should NEVER have to. Engelland doesn't dress cause of the awesomeness that is Mark Eaton, and Murray, as much as I like him, really doesn't get involved physically (outside of checking).

Surely Dangle and myself are not suggesting dressing Steve Macintyre. But why are we NEVER the ones getting other teams stars off their game? Why are we never crashing nets, leveling people in our crease, targeting other teams stars? Isn't that what 3rd and 4th liners are supposed to be doing? Not ours. Cause in Mario's mind, skill and finesse beats mean and rough. Well, we're gonna find out this series if he's right.

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06-02-2013, 07:10 PM
  #508
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I just wanna see us get out of this round...I don't care how...just win
Same. I don't think it'll happen personally but I would love it to and will remain hopeful.

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06-02-2013, 07:30 PM
  #509
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The board by Cooke deserved 5, but I didn't think it warranted a game misconduct. He got that based on reputation.

The Boston boarding from Marchand should've also been 5, and the refs dropped the ball.
I could be wrong (and I have no interest in looking it up) but it is my understanding that any hitting from behind MAJOR penalty has a game misconduct attached to it. So if you think he deserved 5, the game misconduct is automatic.

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06-02-2013, 07:33 PM
  #510
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We're not complaining about a bad call or non call on a trip or hook in the second period. That's what others complain about regarding the Pens.

We're complaining about a very important player on our team getting kicked out of a game based on reputation alone. If that wasn't bad enough, one of their guys commits an even worse, more dangerous offense and gets a minor penalty a few moments later.

There's a big difference between our guy getting tossed and throwing our lines out of whack in addition to us not getting a 5 minute PP, and complaining about a hook.


Last edited by MtlPenFan: 06-02-2013 at 07:43 PM.
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06-02-2013, 07:42 PM
  #511
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People will whine about the end of the 2nd period stuff but McQuaid faking his death was the turning point. If Cooke is suspended, would like to see BB on the wing on the 3rd-line. Morrow-Sutter-Kennedy is not good enough. TK is easily the best player on that line right now and that's bad. Bump Morrow to the 4th line.
That thought occurred to me too, but we both know it won't happen.

Pretty much the only times Sutter looked like an offensive threat throughout the season was when he had BB flanking him.

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06-02-2013, 07:43 PM
  #512
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Late to the game but some of my thoughts from last night:

+ Like our intensity overall especially the first 25 minutes or so. Sometimes you don't get the bounces or the calls; that's hockey and Boston deserves no less credit on account of same. They played smart, they played opportunistic and deserved to win because they were the better team when it counted. Simple as that.

+ Vokoun looked pretty good overall; one goal seemed pretty soft to me but not worried about it. **** happens. The Fleury questions by reporters were just dumb. No other word for it. Shouldn't even be in the conversation for now.

+ Liked Neal putting the big hits on without getting into the extracurricular stuff for the most part. That's what he ought to be doing when not sniping. Some good chances too.


Now for the rest:

- Eaton ****ing sucked and is showing why we basically were able to pick him up for free. Another couple periods like that and I wouldn't let him back in the rest of the series unless an injury situation forced it. Not worth the risk. This isn't 2009. Eaton does not have what it takes to be effective for two more tough series IMO. Tank status: low.

- Some of you guys harshing on the refs need to take off the Yinzer-vision. Obviously they have been crap throughout the playoffs (and in other series besides ours), but I did not see anything radically out of character with the rest of the playoffs. Cooke's hit, while not deserving of an expulsion, was ****ing stupid. What did he think was going to happen there? Let's see: Matt Cooke... vs. Boston... in the playoffs... clear boarding call. The ejection was automatic. I knew the second he did it, he was gone.

That was old (brain-dead) Cooke, not the guy we've seen the last couple seasons. The Marchand thing is irrelevant and it was not the same hit. From behind yes but let's be real here: Neal is much bigger than Marchand and he did not have the head of steam up that Cooke had / did not hit him with the same amount of force. Both deserved to be minor penalties and that's where the mistake was, not that Marchand deserved an ejection.

- Sid showed a total lack of leadership last night (the fact that Cherry approves validates my point). All that **** with Rask and Chara was ridiculous. No wonder people think he's a punk; those were both punk moves IMO. Act like you've been there before Sid. If that's all it takes for them to get under his skin, he's not going to be very effective this series. Was also pretty much invisible most of the night. Geno, while unbelievably stupid to fight (yah just what we need: Malkin with broken fingers) showed a lot more game last night than Sid. That said:

- "The Malkin Who Tried to do Too Much" showed up at times last night and I'm not a fan of that Malkin. Use your teammates, ace. Stop trying to skate through 4 defenders by yourself. This is not the TB Lightnining. That **** will never (and I mean never) work against the Bruins D, which is only going to get better as the series goes along. Also that "right-wing-drive-ending-in-backhander" thing never works for you or for Sid, so cut it out.

And for the love of God (Sid and Geno): no stupid drop-passes this series because they will jump all over them / turn the puck up ice in a hurry.

- PP was dog ****.

That said... I'm not too worried. I think it will go 6 or 7 but there's no reason we can't win this series.


Last edited by Darth Vitale: 06-02-2013 at 08:10 PM. Reason: Too many ****ing ****ings
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Old
06-02-2013, 08:19 PM
  #513
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One HUGE comment I want to make on these defenders taking hits from behind:

The defender has to take some accountability to not put himself in a vulnerable position such as what happened with the Cooke hit. So many times I see defenders going back to play a puck. They know they are going to take a hit. I was ALWAYS taught to keep to my side and absorb the hit to make sure I don't get blasted from behind. I was shown videos on how to do it and what to do. It's amazing to me how often defenders across the entire league just look forward and put their body in danger. It's a joke.

How much of the accountability is on the defender to take the hit? In my opinion... it should be a lot more than it currently is.

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06-02-2013, 08:31 PM
  #514
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Eaton playing at this point becomes a liability because of where he's playing in the lineup. He's currently paired with Letang, so while Letang will get more minutes due to the PP and being double shifted with Niskanen, Martin, and Orpik, it still means Eaton is playing against "top pairing" opponents, and he's being exposed.

Eaton is at his best when he's basically a safe guy on the third pairing, playing 12 to 14 minutes against the other team's third and fourth lines. He's currently being employed against Boston's better players because that's who Letang plays against.

The problem is, what's the solution? The Orpik/Martin tandem has looked good for the most part when they're together. And Niskanen is a RH shot who is better at RD. So the options are Eaton, Murray, or a rookie Despres. Murray, much like Eaton, is at his best in small doses on the third pairing and on the PK. So that leaves Despres, who Bylsma seems to not want to dress.

In retrospect, perhaps Shero should have targeted a left handed shooting defenseman who was capable of playing top four minutes instead of using those assets to acquire Brenden Morrow. Not really sure who was on the market who fit that criteria, however. But it's looking like that's one of the Pens' bigger holes. A solid minute eater to play with Letang could have allowed the rest of the defense to fall into more comfortable roles.

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06-02-2013, 08:42 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
One HUGE comment I want to make on these defenders taking hits from behind:

The defender has to take some accountability to not put himself in a vulnerable position such as what happened with the Cooke hit. So many times I see defenders going back to play a puck. They know they are going to take a hit. I was ALWAYS taught to keep to my side and absorb the hit to make sure I don't get blasted from behind. I was shown videos on how to do it and what to do. It's amazing to me how often defenders across the entire league just look forward and put their body in danger. It's a joke.

How much of the accountability is on the defender to take the hit? In my opinion... it should be a lot more than it currently is.
So true. It almost reminds me of the Fedor Tyutin hit from a few years ago. The defenseman looks over his shoulder, sees Cooke coming from the side, turns his back to him and then takes the hit in the numbers. Whats Cooke supposed to do? Let him go and have the puck be turned up ice for a scoring chance?

PM is right bring in that bear hug rule. Have the player ride the other into the boards and then let go once contact with the boards is made.

Hockey players are such robots these days that they might have to include how to get hit in a teams system and then say how great the coach is. It used to be just good habits.

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06-02-2013, 08:42 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
One HUGE comment I want to make on these defenders taking hits from behind:

The defender has to take some accountability to not put himself in a vulnerable position such as what happened with the Cooke hit. So many times I see defenders going back to play a puck. They know they are going to take a hit. I was ALWAYS taught to keep to my side and absorb the hit to make sure I don't get blasted from behind. I was shown videos on how to do it and what to do. It's amazing to me how often defenders across the entire league just look forward and put their body in danger. It's a joke.

How much of the accountability is on the defender to take the hit? In my opinion... it should be a lot more than it currently is.
Even Julien seemed to think it was kind of a **** call.

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06-02-2013, 08:56 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
One HUGE comment I want to make on these defenders taking hits from behind:

The defender has to take some accountability to not put himself in a vulnerable position such as what happened with the Cooke hit. So many times I see defenders going back to play a puck. They know they are going to take a hit. I was ALWAYS taught to keep to my side and absorb the hit to make sure I don't get blasted from behind. I was shown videos on how to do it and what to do. It's amazing to me how often defenders across the entire league just look forward and put their body in danger. It's a joke.

How much of the accountability is on the defender to take the hit? In my opinion... it should be a lot more than it currently is.
Get used to it. There's already been one suspension on a play where the guy saw a player coming, gave his back and threw himself into the boards as soon as he felt contact (Havlat/Brown last season).

Thing is, NHL can't afford to think the way you want them to. Hits from behind are too dangerous and they've had a "everybody who's good has a concussion" problem in the very recent past.

So while "guy's on me...I'll turn my back and either he won't be able to make a play or he'll hit me and get ejected" is a despicable tactic, it's one that's here to stay. NHL can't be thinking about fairness when it comes to boards. The bottom line is they need to reduce the number by any means necessary save banning hitting.

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06-02-2013, 08:59 PM
  #518
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So....am i the only one who thinks its completely redonk and unacceptable for Letang on the second goal to try to bat the puck away with a high stick rather than swatting the damn thing away with his hand...rather easily at that

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06-02-2013, 09:02 PM
  #519
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So....am i the only one who thinks its completely redonk and unacceptable for Letang on the second goal to try to bat the puck away with a high stick rather than swatting the damn thing away with his hand...rather easily at that
No. To take it a step further, play the man. If you watch the play again Kej pushed Tang into TV and the puck lands right on his stick for a tap in. While Tang is waving his stick at it like an idiot.

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06-02-2013, 09:06 PM
  #520
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So....am i the only one who thinks its completely redonk and unacceptable for Letang on the second goal to try to bat the puck away with a high stick rather than swatting the damn thing away with his hand...rather easily at that
Yes, just a total brain fart on Letang's part. Going on the issue of the refs, they didn't change the outcome of the game, but the Penguins have valid stuff to complain about. They set the standard on the Cooke hit, and they changed that standard for Marchand. Also, you can't let Marchand's interference on Bergeron's breakaway go under any circumstance.(especially considering the weak sauce interference on Orpik earlier in the game) The worst one by far though, was when Marchand slew-footed Letang early in the game, leading directly to a Bruins 3 on 1, does anybody remember that? Can't believe they glossed over it on the nbc broadcast. Brutal non-call.

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06-02-2013, 09:14 PM
  #521
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Still 6 more games.
Not necessarily. Could be only 3 more games left if they're won by Boston.

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06-02-2013, 09:50 PM
  #522
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this post is pretty sanctimonious in my opinion. very few people, if any, are saying the outcome was determined by the refs. dealing with how inference will or will not be called is a very important point and does not by my definition consisting blaming. read some Hawks, Sharks or Ducks PGTs if you thinking worrying about interference is individualistic instance of whining. it's a legitimate gripe that has affected many teams this post-season. hopefully this team is now aware that the refs are ill-equipped to handle interference and can adjust their game-plan accordingly.
way more people are complaining about the refs calls on marchand/cooke than are talking about what an idiot cooke is for delivering that hit. if anyone deserves to get flak on that play, it's cooke.

there are more posts in this thread talking about the refs than the actual game. why is no one talking about letang's brain-damaged defensive coverage on the second goal? it makes these post-game threads unreadable for people who dont have eternity to wade through pages of complaining.

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06-02-2013, 09:59 PM
  #523
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way more people are complaining about the refs calls on marchand/cooke than are talking about what an idiot cooke is for delivering that hit. if anyone deserves to get flak on that play, it's cooke.

there are more posts in this thread talking about the refs than the actual game. why is no one talking about letang's brain-damaged defensive coverage on the second goal? it makes these post-game threads unreadable for people who dont have eternity to wade through pages of complaining.
then don't read them. save yourself the agonizing pain of reading opinions with which you disagree.

if you still can't figure out the main reason why people were upset with the officiating, you're better off either actually reading through all of it or just staying out of the thread completely.

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06-02-2013, 10:07 PM
  #524
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Late to the game but some of my thoughts from last night:

+ Like our intensity overall especially the first 25 minutes or so. Sometimes you don't get the bounces or the calls; that's hockey and Boston deserves no less credit on account of same. They played smart, they played opportunistic and deserved to win because they were the better team when it counted. Simple as that.

+ Vokoun looked pretty good overall; one goal seemed pretty soft to me but not worried about it. **** happens. The Fleury questions by reporters were just dumb. No other word for it. Shouldn't even be in the conversation for now.

+ Liked Neal putting the big hits on without getting into the extracurricular stuff for the most part. That's what he ought to be doing when not sniping. Some good chances too.


Now for the rest:

- Eaton ****ing sucked and is showing why we basically were able to pick him up for free. Another couple periods like that and I wouldn't let him back in the rest of the series unless an injury situation forced it. Not worth the risk. This isn't 2009. Eaton does not have what it takes to be effective for two more tough series IMO. Tank status: low.

- Some of you guys harshing on the refs need to take off the Yinzer-vision. Obviously they have been crap throughout the playoffs (and in other series besides ours), but I did not see anything radically out of character with the rest of the playoffs. Cooke's hit, while not deserving of an expulsion, was ****ing stupid. What did he think was going to happen there? Let's see: Matt Cooke... vs. Boston... in the playoffs... clear boarding call. The ejection was automatic. I knew the second he did it, he was gone.

That was old (brain-dead) Cooke, not the guy we've seen the last couple seasons. The Marchand thing is irrelevant and it was not the same hit. From behind yes but let's be real here: Neal is much bigger than Marchand and he did not have the head of steam up that Cooke had / did not hit him with the same amount of force. Both deserved to be minor penalties and that's where the mistake was, not that Marchand deserved an ejection.

- Sid showed a total lack of leadership last night (the fact that Cherry approves validates my point). All that **** with Rask and Chara was ridiculous. No wonder people think he's a punk; those were both punk moves IMO. Act like you've been there before Sid. If that's all it takes for them to get under his skin, he's not going to be very effective this series. Was also pretty much invisible most of the night. Geno, while unbelievably stupid to fight (yah just what we need: Malkin with broken fingers) showed a lot more game last night than Sid. That said:

- "The Malkin Who Tried to do Too Much" showed up at times last night and I'm not a fan of that Malkin. Use your teammates, ace. Stop trying to skate through 4 defenders by yourself. This is not the TB Lightnining. That **** will never (and I mean never) work against the Bruins D, which is only going to get better as the series goes along. Also that "right-wing-drive-ending-in-backhander" thing never works for you or for Sid, so cut it out.

And for the love of God (Sid and Geno): no stupid drop-passes this series because they will jump all over them / turn the puck up ice in a hurry.

- PP was dog ****.

That said... I'm not too worried. I think it will go 6 or 7 but there's no reason we can't win this series.
My only comment on the refs was that they not only let the game get out of hand, but CAUSED it to get out of hand. Cardinal sin for a ref. I said clearly that the refs were not why the Pens lost. To me blowing a call is more forgivable than losing control of a game. Refs are human and humans can blow a call now and then. Losing control of a game goes to competence at their job. How they handled their jobs yesterday is unforgivable and should put them on the bench.

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06-02-2013, 10:28 PM
  #525
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Hate to ruin any semi-positive vibes but another performance like that emotion-wise and I think it will be a 5 game series for the Bruins. Assuming they won't get more than a split in Boston the Pens now have to take 2 out of 3 and try to win game 5 to have two cracks at winning the series.

Ultimately I don't think the back end was improved enough, Eaton and Murray would have been good depth pickups during a full season but relying on them in the playoffs was a pipe dream IMO. Shero's hands were probably tied in that regard as far as what he was willing to give up so maybe there wasn't much he could do.

And Crosby's and Malkin's actions that game really boggle the mind. 2 cup finals appearances, a gold medal game for one, and still the same bs? Maybe this is where having Iginla and Morrow will pay off but at this stage of their career's they should be over that. Maybe they need to lose their C's and A's next season if this continues?

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