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2013 Draft Thread IV–June 30 3pm–8 16 38 52 69 129 130 143 159 189–Draft Primer in OP

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Old
06-08-2013, 08:25 AM
  #251
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
This myth needs to stop. Our prospect pool is no better or worse than most. Considering the amount of young forwards we've acquired, it would be an intelligent strategy to draft two high end defensemen and throw them into the mix. Especially in a draft like this, where "BPA" nonsense won't matter as much with the difference in prospect ranking by player is marginal.
No ones criticizing the prospect pool. It's just a fact that 2 more defenseman wouldn't overload the system, neither would 2 forwards. It's more a statement don't let the farm club dictate who we pick there's room for every combination.

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06-08-2013, 10:31 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
No ones criticizing the prospect pool. It's just a fact that 2 more defenseman wouldn't overload the system, neither would 2 forwards. It's more a statement don't let the farm club dictate who we pick there's room for every combination.
Of all the combinations I'm actually most wary of F/F, it just seems too "top-heavy" for our current prospect pool if that makes any sense. A few years ago we had what looked like an excellent D pipeline, but most of it has now resolved itself one way or another. Brennan is gone, Schiestel is an AHLer, JGL looks like he will top out there as well. Weber is a 6/7 and neither McNabb nor McCabe have done anything make themselves a reservation. Pysyk is the only one that looks promising, surprise surprise he's the only 1st-rounder of the lot. Myers could still bust out if he doesn't turn things around in the next couple years.

We don't yet have the Dmen that our rebuilt team will need, and since they often take a long time to develop, this year in the 1st round is the time to draft (at least) one.

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06-08-2013, 10:53 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by SoFFacet View Post
Of all the combinations I'm actually most wary of F/F, it just seems too "top-heavy" for our current prospect pool if that makes any sense. A few years ago we had what looked like an excellent D pipeline, but most of it has now resolved itself one way or another. Brennan is gone, Schiestel is an AHLer, JGL looks like he will top out there as well. Weber is a 6/7 and neither McNabb nor McCabe have done anything make themselves a reservation. Pysyk is the only one that looks promising, surprise surprise he's the only 1st-rounder of the lot. Myers could still bust out if he doesn't turn things around in the next couple years.

We don't yet have the Dmen that our rebuilt team will need, and since they often take a long time to develop, this year in the 1st round is the time to draft (at least) one.
Wut? Are you just talking about guys who can contribute at the NHL level next season, or did you completely ignore the WJC?

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06-08-2013, 02:06 PM
  #254
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I keep reading that this is a "deep" draft. What exactly does that mean? Better than average but an once in every 3 year type of "deep", every 5, every 10, or once in a lifetime event with multiple next Wayne Gretzky-ish and Mario-like players? What was the greatest draft class ever and how do people think this one compares 10 years from now looking back? Just curious if there is agreement/consistency on "deep."

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06-08-2013, 02:17 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Prospector74 View Post
I keep reading that this is a "deep" draft. What exactly does that mean? Better than average but an once in every 3 year type of "deep", every 5, every 10, or once in a lifetime event with multiple next Wayne Gretzky-ish and Mario-like players? What was the greatest draft class ever and how do people think this one compares 10 years from now looking back? Just curious if there is agreement/consistency on "deep."
There are a number of very, very good players at the top end -- consensus ranges up to 8 in number, making the top end deep. And then there are probably close to 50 more players who are in a significant group meaning there are guys who teams are talking about as having first round skills/grades well into the second round. Some are comparing it to 2003, where 1st line guys developed out of a lot of picks and nearly everyone drafted someone useful in the first round and high-end talent like Shea Weber and Patrice Bergeron developed out of round 2.

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06-08-2013, 03:23 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Prospector74 View Post
I keep reading that this is a "deep" draft. What exactly does that mean? Better than average but an once in every 3 year type of "deep", every 5, every 10, or once in a lifetime event with multiple next Wayne Gretzky-ish and Mario-like players? What was the greatest draft class ever and how do people think this one compares 10 years from now looking back? Just curious if there is agreement/consistency on "deep."
To build on what Chain said, it's deep (at least 4 identified by almost everyone, a couple more depending on who you ask) with guys who are pegged as franchise players (e.g. would be #1 or #2 overall picks in most drafts). Then it's also deep with guys who are strong prospects, going maybe a round deeper than those guys usually do. In other words, this is a draft where you want a top 5 pick as your selection could easily be as good or better than some recent #1 overalls, and it's also a draft where you'd love to have some extra picks in the first 2 or 3 rounds.

Look at a team like Calgary. They draft 6th overall and have two late firsts. In most drafts that'll get you a good haul but in this draft it could be huge for them. 6th might have them missing out on the universally-considered franchise but still gets them a great shot at elite talent while those late firsts might well get them top 12 kind of talent in your average draft. Of course, these things happen in every draft, but I'm talking about the projected (based on current evaluations) probability of landing these sorts of players.

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06-08-2013, 04:58 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Woodhouse View Post
[UPDATED] Confirmed invites to Buffalo combine: Arnesson + Bailey + Beauregard + Bibeau + Bjorkstrand + Desrosiers + Erne + Etchegary + Fucale + Hagg + Klimchuk + Labbe + Lazar + Lindholm + Martin + Monahan + Morrissey + Mueller + Nastasiuk + Petan + Poirier + Rychel + Santini + Shinkaruk (?) + Wennberg + 50 or so others

***

22 eligibles have been invited to the USA National Junior Evaluation Camp in August at Lake Placid (I'll have a session pass again, so hopefully there's some Sabres there to update on).

***

Also, with how Regier's opted for second- and third-year eligibles in the past four drafts (Knapp, Legault, Boychuk, Lieuwen, Navin, Nelson, Ullmark, Austin), here's one to consider this year, Michigan's Andrew Copp (LC - 6'1" - 203):
Advocating for them to look at Anton Slepyshev as a 2nd year eligible draftee as well in the mid-to-later picks. One of these guys might eventually turn out, right?

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06-08-2013, 05:27 PM
  #258
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Advocating for them to look at Anton Slepyshev as a 2nd year eligible draftee as well in the mid-to-later picks. One of these guys might eventually turn out, right?
They should have used a pick on him last year. He was ranked as high as a low 1st round talent going into the draft. I get passing on him early in the draft, he may never come to the NHL and blowing an early pick would be reckless. How one team out there didn't use a 5th round pick or later on him just boggles my mind... I'd much rather have a guy like Slepyshev in our system then a guy like Nelson.

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06-08-2013, 06:31 PM
  #259
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Wut? Are you just talking about guys who can contribute at the NHL level next season, or did you completely ignore the WJC?
Yeah I guess I should have clarified that. McCabe is "promising" but he still has a ways to go and how that development actually goes is unpredictable. I'm just saying that passing on a BPA Dman just because we've reserved a spot for McCabe for some reason doesn't make any sense.

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06-08-2013, 07:12 PM
  #260
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Here is a link to my first mock after a few hours of working on it.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1#post67219831

I will do another one before the draft as I learn more about which prospects are visiting where and any other information that helps sort out potential teams picks.

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06-08-2013, 09:02 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by JPurp26 View Post
Here is a link to my first mock after a few hours of working on it.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1#post67219831

I will do another one before the draft as I learn more about which prospects are visiting where and any other information that helps sort out potential teams picks.
I like the Sabres pick at 52. Passing on Nichushkin at 8?

I still want Kujawinski at 69.

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06-08-2013, 09:40 PM
  #262
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I like the Sabres pick at 52. Passing on Nichushkin at 8?

I still want Kujawinski at 69.
Agreed. Can't see them passing on nischukin when regier keeps preaching the need for skill and size.

Do like the pick @ 16,

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06-08-2013, 09:48 PM
  #263
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Nichushkin's question marks about effort and inconsistency make me think that Darcy passes, but hey I will take criticism in mind when I redo my next mock. Thanks for looking though and discussing.

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06-08-2013, 09:51 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Woodhouse View Post
[UPDATED] Confirmed invites to Buffalo combine: Arnesson + Bailey + Beauregard + Bibeau + Bjorkstrand + Desrosiers + Erne + Etchegary + Fucale + Hagg + Klimchuk + Labbe + Lazar + Lindholm + Martin + Monahan + Morrissey + Mueller + Nastasiuk + Petan + Poirier + Rychel + Santini + Shinkaruk (?) + Wennberg + 50 or so others

***

22 eligibles have been invited to the USA National Junior Evaluation Camp in August at Lake Placid (I'll have a session pass again, so hopefully there's some Sabres there to update on).

***

Also, with how Regier's opted for second- and third-year eligibles in the past four drafts (Knapp, Legault, Boychuk, Lieuwen, Navin, Nelson, Ullmark, Austin), here's one to consider this year, Michigan's Andrew Copp (LC - 6'1" - 203):
Thanks for this Woodhouse. Do you mind just doing a strict list of who is at the Buffalo Combines. You said 50 others but it would help me do mocks and what not.

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06-08-2013, 09:53 PM
  #265
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Also, while glancing through Woodhouse's posted twitters, I saw this on Bailey's twitter and thought it was worth it's own post.
https://twitter.com/JustinBailey95/s...18012944670720

Notice the picture and signed Terry Pegula thank you for attending card. Classy

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06-08-2013, 10:10 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by JPurp26 View Post
Here is a link to my first mock after a few hours of working on it.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1#post67219831

I will do another one before the draft as I learn more about which prospects are visiting where and any other information that helps sort out potential teams picks.
Prospect gurus, please chime in, as I know absolutely nothing about Burakovsky.

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06-08-2013, 10:32 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by JPurp26 View Post
Here is a link to my first mock after a few hours of working on it.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1#post67219831

I will do another one before the draft as I learn more about which prospects are visiting where and any other information that helps sort out potential teams picks.
Love burakowsky ... wanted him for months and advocated for it for months..nice mock a few tweeks before the final and it may be near perfect barring trades.

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06-08-2013, 10:40 PM
  #268
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Prospect gurus, please chime in, as I know absolutely nothing about Burakovsky.
I love LOVE Burakowsky..kid is going to be an elite talent and a first round steal. Hands of silk very quick release, great wheels which allows him to duck n dip in front of the net and creep out of the crease. Very dangerous player when on ice also has good size. Bloodlines are nhl as well as his dad played for Ottawa if I remember right .. (to young) may have been montreal or Calgary.. reminds me of a Hossa type.

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06-09-2013, 12:10 AM
  #269
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What myth? They aren't deep at any one position to worry overly much about forward or defense. I don't see a reason to be upset about that -- they could use help everywhere.
I disagree with many.

I look at ths team and see alot of young Dmen.

Myers, Pyxyk, McNabb, McCabe, and Rhwedel to name a few. They all are 23 and under. They have a few older players n Weber, Sekera, and Ehrhoff. Give the guys a chance to develop.

Drafting 2 Dmen in the 1st puts undo pressure on these players. It signals to other teams these guys aren't worth trading for. If you have too much depth at one position it hurts their development and hurts their trade value.

It's generally easier to fnd Dmen in the second round than it is to find forwards.

The teams weakest area by far is winger. Stop saying we can just move a center to winger...not everyone can easily flip flop positions. In terms of young wingers they have Armia, Foligno, Enns, and Girgensons.

I want them to focus on forwards in the first round. Picking 2 D is a kiss of death....


Last edited by Djp: 06-09-2013 at 12:16 AM.
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06-09-2013, 12:15 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by GrigsAndGirgs View Post
Prospect gurus, please chime in, as I know absolutely nothing about Burakovsky.
THN put it best when describing why Andre had such a tough year...he was one of those fringers, who was too good for the junior leagues but not quite ready for the Pros. He is an Austrian-born Swede, very lanky, and very fast. He's a guy I want to see very badly this next season, as he'll either be looked at as a steal, or a guy who just never made the jump.

I don't care for that kind of risk at 16...too many other players I'd rather take there that have as-much potential and are surer-things.


edit: and I don't care the reasoning, or any hidden politics that may've come into play - the fact that he didn't make Sweden's WJC team says a lot. If he's as talented as some say, he would've found a way onto that team.

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06-09-2013, 01:14 AM
  #271
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Originally Posted by Djp View Post
I disagree with many.

I look at ths team and see alot of young Dmen.

Myers, Pyxyk, McNabb, McCabe, and Rhwedel to name a few. They all are 23 and under. They have a few older players n Weber, Sekera, and Ehrhoff. Give the guys a chance to develop.

Drafting 2 Dmen in the 1st puts undo pressure on these players. It signals to other teams these guys aren't worth trading for. If you have too much depth at one position it hurts their development and hurts their trade value.

It's generally easier to fnd Dmen in the second round than it is to find forwards.

The teams weakest area by far is winger. Stop saying we can just move a center to winger...not everyone can easily flip flop positions. In terms of young wingers they have Armia, Foligno, Enns, and Girgensons.

I want them to focus on forwards in the first round. Picking 2 D is a kiss of death....
While I don't feel the same way you do on the D scenario, I agree with you totally on the wings. While I don't want them passing on guys like lindholm and monahan, they need more talent on the wings. Part of why I'd be pretty upset if they pass on a guy like nischukin

And JPurp, you make a good pt on Regier and nischukin's attitude, but many of the same questions were asked about grigorenko. Hopefully they did some studying up on that similar to how they studied grigs

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06-09-2013, 01:24 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Djp View Post
I disagree with many.

I look at ths team and see alot of young Dmen.

Myers, Pyxyk, McNabb, McCabe, and Rhwedel to name a few. They all are 23 and under. They have a few older players n Weber, Sekera, and Ehrhoff. Give the guys a chance to develop.

Drafting 2 Dmen in the 1st puts undo pressure on these players. It signals to other teams these guys aren't worth trading for. If you have too much depth at one position it hurts their development and hurts their trade value.

It's generally easier to fnd Dmen in the second round than it is to find forwards.

The teams weakest area by far is winger. Stop saying we can just move a center to winger...not everyone can easily flip flop positions. In terms of young wingers they have Armia, Foligno, Enns, and Girgensons.

I want them to focus on forwards in the first round. Picking 2 D is a kiss of death....
Flipping a center to wing is not hard. Flipping a wing to center is. It's the truth, like it or not.

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06-09-2013, 02:40 AM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Djp View Post
I disagree with many.

I look at ths team and see alot of young Dmen.

Myers, Pyxyk, McNabb, McCabe, and Rhwedel to name a few. They all are 23 and under. They have a few older players n Weber, Sekera, and Ehrhoff. Give the guys a chance to develop.

Drafting 2 Dmen in the 1st puts undo pressure on these players. It signals to other teams these guys aren't worth trading for. If you have too much depth at one position it hurts their development and hurts their trade value.

It's generally easier to fnd Dmen in the second round than it is to find forwards.

The teams weakest area by far is winger. Stop saying we can just move a center to winger...not everyone can easily flip flop positions. In terms of young wingers they have Armia, Foligno, Enns, and Girgensons.

I want them to focus on forwards in the first round. Picking 2 D is a kiss of death....
There's 2 physical defensman on this team and it's farm club. We could have 4 at the end of the draft. The kiss of death is thinking McNabb and Weber makes this D hard to play against. Ya there's a lot of defenseman but how many of them are gonna be part of this team? Sekera is already being wasted because there isn't room for more soft 2 way defenders. Adding ruewhatever and Pysyk hasn't made us harder to play on the backend. At some point that needs to be addressed and if the board falls the way things are looking then we won't have a better oppurtunity than right now.

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06-09-2013, 09:18 AM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Djp View Post
I disagree with many.

I look at ths team and see alot of young Dmen.

Myers, Pyxyk, McNabb, McCabe, and Rhwedel to name a few. They all are 23 and under. They have a few older players n Weber, Sekera, and Ehrhoff. Give the guys a chance to develop.

Drafting 2 Dmen in the 1st puts undo pressure on these players. It signals to other teams these guys aren't worth trading for. If you have too much depth at one position it hurts their development and hurts their trade value.

It's generally easier to fnd Dmen in the second round than it is to find forwards.

The teams weakest area by far is winger. Stop saying we can just move a center to winger...not everyone can easily flip flop positions. In terms of young wingers they have Armia, Foligno, Enns, and Girgensons.

I want them to focus on forwards in the first round. Picking 2 D is a kiss of death....
Wait, so the arguement is rather than taking BPA and improving a roster position that Buffalo is going to NOT select a certain type of player simply to protect preceived trade value of existing players? Uh-huh. Or that it might eventually put pressure on these guys to succeed? That tends to be what nearly every team wants -- pressure from the youngsters coming up on the existing players so that the existing players either improve their game or they become trade fodder. Granted, these guys are going to be a few years from breaking into the league most likely, around the time someone like Sekera will be up for a juicy UFA deal from teams that pay attention to defensive metrics.

McNabb is coming off a serious knee injury. Myers is a mess who may need to be dealt to finally start straightening himself out. Ruhwedel -- small sample size and getting playing time due to a rash of injuries isn't exactly turning this guy out as a top-4 candidate. Schiestel, Crawford, Biega -- all stalled. That leaves McCabe as the only guy not pro with any sort of top-4 upside and he's already got enough durability questions that he's not a sure thing.

As for the wings: Girgensons, Larsson, Catenacci all look like they may be spending time on the flanks as pros. Throw in lesser lights like Sundher or Jacobs at the pro level. Centers get converted all the time. Wingers rarely do, despite what Regier/Ruff have tried to do here in the past.

As for centers, there are still enough questions about their current collection of young, offense first guys to look there. Hodgson seems like a fine #2 at this point. Will he round out his d-zone woes and manage to produce inspite of tougher checking assignments? Grigorenko is a work in progress. Ennis? The guy is a LW. They could use someone who's naturally a center and can play in all three zones -- it's why so many have been beating the drum to move up to insure they land someone like that, be it the pipedream of a MacKinnon or Barkov to the slightly less pipedream-y Monahan or Lindholm. It also allows them to have ammunition in trade as players move up to the NHL.

This isn't a good team right now. Focusing in on drafting purely positionally will not serve them in the longer term. It's how they wound up with slugs like Joel Savage (had to get tougher!) or Denis Tsygurov (need d-help now!). They're in the early stages of a long-term build, they need to cast as wide and as deep a net as possible for all positional players, not JUST "oh, he's a wing, we need those".

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06-09-2013, 09:47 AM
  #275
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Edit : that's an amazing auto correct...
Eat I meant to say was, "exactly"

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