HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

2013 Draft Thread IV–June 30 3pm–8 16 38 52 69 129 130 143 159 189–Draft Primer in OP

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-11-2013, 04:24 PM
  #351
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 44,593
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
Oh so we are not picking Nichushkin at 16 now either because he didn't do well at a combine, well good thing the game is played on the ice.

17 year old gave a terrible interview in a language he has yet to learn, he lacks character.
tell us what you think about Nichushkin, instead of what you think about the context of someone else opinion

Jame is online now  
Old
06-11-2013, 04:24 PM
  #352
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 44,593
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
Nurse and Nichushkin left at #8? Not a nightmare at all.
total nightmare...

Have you watched these guys? or just scouted the internet?

Using our best draft asset in a decade, and having to decide between taking the high end project players with questionable hockey IQ (Nurse) and character (Nich) over slightly lower ceiling players with high IQ/Character... is definitely the nightmare scenario... especially when there were 7 high end projects with very little question marks to their respective games

Jame is online now  
Old
06-11-2013, 04:27 PM
  #353
Top Pair Imposter
False Defenseman
 
Top Pair Imposter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country: Ras al-Khaimah
Posts: 13,443
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
What's the difference? If a player busts at 1-5 it's more a failure of the scouting department than anything else.
What? Consensus top-5 players busting isn't on the team unless they're obviously mishandled. Unless every single team is incompetent, I suppose.

Quote:
At least they'd be giving themselves a chance to pick exactly who they wanted rather than relying on whatever the 7 teams in front of them leaves behind.
There's only one team in the league that gets the certainty of picking the player they want. Are others in the top 5 to be harangued for not finishing worse than 2nd/3rd last?

The simple fact is that the team wasn't bad enough to draft in the top-7. If they were, they would have finished so. Frankly, in an 82 game season I expect they make the playoffs. Unless you're advocating intentional tanking, which is a legitimate if somewhat ethically questionable strategy, what's the point?

Top Pair Imposter is offline  
Old
06-11-2013, 04:30 PM
  #354
Woodhouse
Registered User
 
Woodhouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 13,446
vCash: 666
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Advocating for them to look at Anton Slepyshev as a 2nd year eligible draftee as well in the mid-to-later picks. One of these guys might eventually turn out, right?
Also, of the invites, Bibeau is a 6'1" second-year goalie and finished second in QMJHL SV% (.911); but Slepyshev, Pochiro and Djuse were listed as overage sleepers by McKeen's. Rounding out their list were first-years: F - Allen, Cassels, Henriksson, Possler, Sherman, Tolchinsky; D - Burroughs, Reno; and G - Guindon, Whistle.

The majority of their list are undersized, but Henriksson, Pochiro, Reno, Sherman and Slepyshev are 6'1"+. Allen is Michigan bound this year, while Reno and Sherman are off to RPI and Harvard respectively in 2014-15.

I may have a list of notable second-years somewhere, but another one of note is Dubuque's Frankie DiChiara (LW - 6'1" - 213) who's Yale-bound and a former LI Royal:
From a scouting standpoint, Joe Kolodziej from The Junior Hockey News speaks highly of Frank’s on-ice abilities: ”He exhibits an old-school player’s mindset – hard work always pays off, and if you compete harder than everyone else you will win more games. He reminds me of Johan Franzen (of the Detroit Red Wings). A big, strong player who is physically dominating when he needs to be, yet he has the skill of a goal scorer. A player who competes hard at both ends of the ice. He’s got a ‘no-quit’ attitude, he’s coachable, well spoken, and a natural born leader. His Clark Cup winning goal is a perfect example of his vision, physical ability and scoring touch. Frank DiChiara is a player that all young players should emulate on the ice.” Joe continued, “And off the ice… an incredible person.“ *** The Junior Hockey News ***


Quote:
Originally Posted by JPurp26 View Post
Thanks for this Woodhouse. Do you mind just doing a strict list of who is at the Buffalo Combines. You said 50 others but it would help me do mocks and what not.
That was the list of known attendees at the Buffalo combine. There's a thread on the Prospects board attempting to track combines and/or interviews league-wide.

Woodhouse is offline  
Old
06-11-2013, 04:31 PM
  #355
Top Pair Imposter
False Defenseman
 
Top Pair Imposter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country: Ras al-Khaimah
Posts: 13,443
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post

Using our best draft asset in a decade,
This is a problematic way of thinking about it. Understand the pick for what it is in a vacuum, rather than the relative significance of the pick to the franchise. It's a draft pick that will in all likelihood contribute less than someone picked below him over a 7 year span. That doesn't mean it's a failure.

Quote:
character (Nich)
What character issues are you referring to? Do they translate to on-ice performance?

Top Pair Imposter is offline  
Old
06-11-2013, 04:31 PM
  #356
AirBriere48
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 766
vCash: 500
If it's a choice of Nichuskin vs. Nurse/Shinkaruk/Horvat, etc, you take Nichuskin. Probably more risk than you would ideally like, but still preferable to what's left. Definitely not ideal (i.e. Lindholm at #8), but also not a "nightmare" scenario.

AirBriere48 is offline  
Old
06-11-2013, 04:32 PM
  #357
1972
"Craigs on it"
 
1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,377
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
total nightmare...


Have you watched these guys? or just scouted the internet?

Using our best draft asset in a decade, and having to decide between taking the high end project players with questionable hockey IQ (Nurse) and character (Nich) over slightly lower ceiling players with high IQ/Character... is definitely the nightmare scenario... especially when there were 7 high end projects with very little question marks to their respective games
Saw Darnell Nurse (3 times live @Niagara @MISS @Niagara 2012) play at least 10 times and Nichushkin at least that (U20, Subway Series, U18), so yes I have watched these players.

I am guessing you haven't seen much of Nurse since you only have the Q package and he did not play U18s or WRJ. I am sure you watched the top prospects game tho


Last edited by 1972: 06-11-2013 at 04:40 PM.
1972 is offline  
Old
06-11-2013, 04:38 PM
  #358
Woodhouse
Registered User
 
Woodhouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 13,446
vCash: 666
Awards:
Some excerpts from Button's chat on defensemen:
Quote:
12:55 - Craig Button: I have watched Samuel Morin play since the Canada Games in 2011. I have seen continuous development in his play and think that as he gains strength and fills into his enormous body, that he could be a force in the NHL. He was hurt in February & March so I didn't have as many viewing as I would like to make a confident assessment. I saw him during the first round of the QMJHL playoffs but after watching him at the U-18 in Sochi, it was enough to make me feel confident, he was a bona fide top 20 prospect.
Quote:
1:09 - Craig Button: Again, deep draft so Ryan [Pulock] is an NHL player IMO. You are always watching progress in players and it's not that Ryan hasn't progressed but when you watch other players, you see significant strides being taken where they may have been a lot further behind Ryan at one point, their development is catching up and then you project based on that. It's always an assessment based on where all players will be once they have matured, which is approximately 3-5 years after being drafted.
Quote:
1:13 - Craig Button: Rasmus [Ristolainen] is close to being NHL ready. He reminds me of two players. Brent Seabrook on one side of the evaluation and Derek Morris on the other side. Both Solid NHL players. If teams see more of Seabrook, he will go earlier, If teams see more of Morris, he will go a little later. I think that is the range of potential for Rasmus but I have no doubt. he will be a long time NHL player. I haven't seen as much of the Seabrook player as I have seen of the Morris player and that is why I have him outside my top 20.
Also, a blurb on evaluating prospects:
Quote:
1:28 - Craig Button: Hockey sense is paramount in my evaluations. When you are younger and bigger and stronger, it allows you to skate past opponents or overpower them. When the physical maturation process takes place for all players, it isn't a significant advantage any longer so you best be able to think. So, when I watch players who think and adjust on the ice despite being physically immature, I think it projects as long as they have the base skills. If you can't think well, the challenges become increasingly difficult as you try to perform at the NHL level.

Woodhouse is offline  
Old
06-11-2013, 04:51 PM
  #359
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 44,593
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
Saw Darnell Nurse play at least 10 times and Nichushkin at least that, so yes I have watched these players.

I am guessing you haven't seen much of Nurse since you only have the Q package and he did not play U18s or WRJ. I am sure you watched the top prospects game tho
You guessed wrong

Is Nurse's complete lack of ice awareness as obvious live, as it is on tape? Guy reminds me of Dmitri Kalinin... boat loads of raw skill... and no clue how to use it. But... you know, he hits people really hard so, totally a top 10 pick

Jame is online now  
Old
06-11-2013, 04:56 PM
  #360
1972
"Craigs on it"
 
1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,377
vCash: 50
....

1972 is offline  
Old
06-11-2013, 04:58 PM
  #361
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 44,593
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
Or maybe I guessed right and you are just lying

yea, you got me

Jame is online now  
Old
06-11-2013, 05:00 PM
  #362
Top Pair Imposter
False Defenseman
 
Top Pair Imposter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country: Ras al-Khaimah
Posts: 13,443
vCash: 50
So about those character issues

Top Pair Imposter is offline  
Old
06-11-2013, 05:01 PM
  #363
Vito_81
Registered User
 
Vito_81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,620
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
You guessed wrong

Is Nurse's complete lack of ice awareness as obvious live, as it is on tape? Guy reminds me of Dmitri Kalinin... boat loads of raw skill... and no clue how to use it. But... you know, he hits people really hard so, totally a top 10 pick
Hey, hey, hey

No Kalinin bashing!

Vito_81 is offline  
Old
06-11-2013, 05:08 PM
  #364
1972
"Craigs on it"
 
1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,377
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
You guessed wrong

Is Nurse's complete lack of ice awareness as obvious live, as it is on tape? Guy reminds me of Dmitri Kalinin... boat loads of raw skill... and no clue how to use it. But... you know, he hits people really hard so, totally a top 10 pick
When he played in Mississauga it wasent at all which was at the tail end of this season, actually you wouldnt even question his decision making that game. He made good plays throughout the game defensive ly (getting in lanes, blocking shots, very quick reads). He first pass was spot on all game aswell. The skating is top notch. Their are a couple flaws in his game, first of all I don't know that he has the natural offensive instincts to run a PP at the NHL level, he shot seemed alittle overwhelming. Does he have Pietrangelo IQ? No, not many do. I think he still thinks the game at a high enough level that he can be a #2/3 guy at some point in his career.

Last year when he came into Niagara he was all athleticism, nothing to his game at all, from then until now he has developed as much as any player in the draft.

Would I take him at #8? Wouldn't be my first choice but you never know. I expect he will go #7-11

1972 is offline  
Old
06-11-2013, 05:12 PM
  #365
thefifagod
I'm The Survivor
 
thefifagod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,136
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWook View Post
Should it play out this way... then what?
Try to trade back a couple spots and add an extra pick if there's another team that wants Nichushkin or Nurse. If nobody is willing, I'd probably take Horvat even though he's a (slight?) reach at 8.

thefifagod is offline  
Old
06-11-2013, 05:15 PM
  #366
Moskau
Registered User
 
Moskau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Western New York
Posts: 17,053
vCash: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
our worst fears....
1 COL Seth Jones
2 FLA Nathan Mackinnon
3 TB Aleksander Barkov
4 NAS Jonathan Drouin
5 CAR Rasmus Ristolainen
6 CAL Elias Lindholm
7 EDM Sean Monahan
Just take Horvat in that situation IMO. People are watching Boston dick slap teams with defensive forwards and they have reservations about taking one of the best two way forward prospects to come along in the past few years?

Girgensons, Larsson, Horvat even Kea and Catenacci... I can't remember a team having that many defensively responsible forward prospects with offensive skill in a long time. Those guys will do anything to win a game too.

Sure getting Lindholm at #8 would be ideal, hell I'd like to get Lindholm and then trade up for Horvat with #16 but the reality is neither probably happen.


Last edited by Moskau: 06-11-2013 at 05:30 PM.
Moskau is offline  
Old
06-11-2013, 05:27 PM
  #367
OcAirlines
Registered User
 
OcAirlines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Germany
Posts: 2,673
vCash: 500
If the aforementioned scenario happens with Nichushkin still being available and Ristolainen being gone, I think trading down would be the best option. I think there is a high chance that a team in the 9-13 range likes him a lot and can't believe that he dropped, so they would offer at least a 2nd to trade up. If this isn't the case and Nichs performance at the combine was as awful as some people suggest then why bother, he won't even be in the conversation at #8, neither for us nor for any other team so it isn't worth it spending any more thoughts on him, he is a non-factor in that case. We should still be looking to trade down then but I doubt that any team would offer much to move up in that scenario, so we would probably be stuck with a list of very equal players and I would just have to trust our scouting staff and the interviewers to determine who they think is best for the organisation. At this point I wouldn't care too much if it was Horvat or Lazar or Domi or Zadorov or Nurse or Pulock or...

OcAirlines is offline  
Old
06-11-2013, 05:30 PM
  #368
EichHart
Registered User
 
EichHart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Hamburg, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,675
vCash: 50
Rank Name Ht., Wt. Shoots Birthdate Team Round

1 Seth Jones 6-3, 208 Right Oct. 3, 1994 Portland
2 Darnell Nurse 6-5, 194 Left Feb. 4, 1995 Sault Ste. Marie
3 Rasmus Ristolainen 6-3, 196 Right Oct. 27, 1994 TPS Turku
4 Samuel Morin 6-6, 203 Left July 12, 1995 Rimouski
5 Nikita Zadorov 6-5, 228 Left April 15, 1995 London
6 Josh Morrissey 6-0, 185 Left March 28, 1995 Prince Albert
7 Ryan Pulock 6-1, 211 Right Oct. 6, 1994 Brandon
8 Steve Santini 6-2, 207 Right March 7, 1995 U.S.NTDP U-18
9 Tommy Vannelli 6-2, 189 Right Jan. 26, 1995 Minnetonka
10 Mirco Muller 6-3, 187 Left March 21, 1995 Everett

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...semen/2412515/

EichHart is offline  
Old
06-11-2013, 05:43 PM
  #369
Jamie Walker
Registered User
 
Jamie Walker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hamilton, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 562
vCash: 500
i'd take Nichushkin with 8. i think at worst he'd be Paille, but actually hits people. at best, WOW

Jamie Walker is offline  
Old
06-11-2013, 06:52 PM
  #370
start winnin
NO MORE TANK BOYS
 
start winnin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 9,188
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
So about those character issues


Well people are in an uproar because today someone tweeted that he gave up during the combine tests, gave poor interviews, etc. I've also heard people say he's arrogant and thinks too highly of himself, and well he's Russian.

start winnin is offline  
Old
06-11-2013, 06:55 PM
  #371
Paxon
⚔Z E M G U S⚔
 
Paxon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Laurel, MD
Country: United States
Posts: 25,541
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stop Winnin View Post


Well people are in an uproar because today someone tweeted that he gave up during the combine tests, gave poor interviews, etc. I've also heard people say he's arrogant and thinks too highly of himself, and well he's Russian.
I watched a bunch of his combine tests on tsn.ca and that's a pretty ridiculous way for them to put it.

Paxon is offline  
Old
06-11-2013, 08:04 PM
  #372
Moskau
Registered User
 
Moskau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Western New York
Posts: 17,053
vCash: 67
The combine tests mean almost nothing. It's been said by just about every scout, GM and director. They're really only useful for the lesser evaluated players.

But if he really did bomb the interviews he will fall very far. Outside of on ice performance the interviews are the most important part for a player to be drafted and it amazes me you still hear stories of players cracking in them and saying stupid ****. All you have to do is put up a facade for 3 days and it could mean the difference from being a mid 1st round pick to not being picked at all.

Moskau is offline  
Old
06-11-2013, 08:12 PM
  #373
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 67,123
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodhouse View Post
Also, of the invites, Bibeau is a 6'1" second-year goalie and finished second in QMJHL SV% (.911); but Slepyshev, Pochiro and Djuse were listed as overage sleepers by McKeen's. Rounding out their list were first-years: F - Allen, Cassels, Henriksson, Possler, Sherman, Tolchinsky; D - Burroughs, Reno; and G - Guindon, Whistle.

The majority of their list are undersized, but Henriksson, Pochiro, Reno, Sherman and Slepyshev are 6'1"+. Allen is Michigan bound this year, while Reno and Sherman are off to RPI and Harvard respectively in 2014-15.

I may have a list of notable second-years somewhere, but another one of note is Dubuque's Frankie DiChiara (LW - 6'1" - 213) who's Yale-bound and a former LI Royal:
From a scouting standpoint, Joe Kolodziej from The Junior Hockey News speaks highly of Frank’s on-ice abilities: ”He exhibits an old-school player’s mindset – hard work always pays off, and if you compete harder than everyone else you will win more games. He reminds me of Johan Franzen (of the Detroit Red Wings). A big, strong player who is physically dominating when he needs to be, yet he has the skill of a goal scorer. A player who competes hard at both ends of the ice. He’s got a ‘no-quit’ attitude, he’s coachable, well spoken, and a natural born leader. His Clark Cup winning goal is a perfect example of his vision, physical ability and scoring touch. Frank DiChiara is a player that all young players should emulate on the ice.” Joe continued, “And off the ice… an incredible person.“ *** The Junior Hockey News ***


That was the list of known attendees at the Buffalo combine. There's a thread on the Prospects board attempting to track combines and/or interviews league-wide.
Hoping they look at Sven Andrighetto as a second year draftee too out of the Q. Crafty kid, really got it done in the crunch.

Brock's got his annual blurb on OHL redraftees out here: http://ohlprospects.blogspot.com/201...e-entries.html It's always a good read.

__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
Chainshot is offline  
Old
06-11-2013, 09:17 PM
  #374
ottsabrefan
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: kanata, ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 717
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
our worst fears....
1 COL Seth Jones
2 FLA Nathan Mackinnon
3 TB Aleksander Barkov
4 NAS Jonathan Drouin
5 CAR Rasmus Ristolainen
6 CAL Elias Lindholm
7 EDM Sean Monahan
You mean your worst fears.

ottsabrefan is offline  
Old
06-11-2013, 09:24 PM
  #375
ottsabrefan
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: kanata, ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 717
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
total nightmare...

Have you watched these guys? or just scouted the internet?

Using our best draft asset in a decade, and having to decide between taking the high end project players with questionable hockey IQ (Nurse) and character (Nich) over slightly lower ceiling players with high IQ/Character... is definitely the nightmare scenario... especially when there were 7 high end projects with very little question marks to their respective games
I thought this was generally debunked by the end of the year? Did you get the tapes from the end as well?

ottsabrefan is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:12 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.