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Head Coach Vacancy Pt IV — Rangers get permission to speak to Ruff

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06-05-2013, 03:19 PM
  #401
Cliffy1814
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I find it hard to believe that Darroll Powe, Arron Asham, Brandon Mashinter, etc, etc, were just waiting to break out and make a real impact if it wasnt for Torts.
"Impact" as you say and "Deserving to play" like the guy I was responding to are two different things.
Asham, and Powe have been useful 4th liners their entire carerer. Halpern went to Montreal and played 3rd/4th line center very capably.

When you take veteran players used to playing 8-10 minutes a night and you give them 3 minutes a night and treat them like they can't be trusted in the 3rd period, I a am not sure what you can expect from them.

Renney played all his players. Most good caoches play all their players.
Torts never has.

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06-05-2013, 03:21 PM
  #402
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Torts was in a no-win situation with the bottom 6 for most of the season, especially before the Gaborik trade when we had less depth. People would complain that he didn't play the bottom 6 enough, and then when he did play them, the same people would complain that they "cost us the game."

Ultimately, it was a personnel issue, and that falls on Sather.

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06-05-2013, 03:24 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
4th line / 3rd pair not deserving because they aren't capable or because they were never trusted and confidence eroded under Torts?

Chicken or the egg?
great point. historically the man runs a short bench, no surprise it caught up to him.

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06-05-2013, 03:29 PM
  #404
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torts was in a no-win situation with the bottom 6 for most of the season, especially before the gaborik trade when we had less depth. People would complain that he didn't play the bottom 6 enough, and then when he did play them, the same people would complain that they "cost us the game."

ultimately, it was a personnel issue, and that falls on sather.
bingo!!!

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06-05-2013, 03:32 PM
  #405
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great point. historically the man runs a short bench, no surprise it caught up to him.
True, watching Bruins 4th line takes 2-3 shifts out of 4, which gives the top lines a breather

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06-05-2013, 03:42 PM
  #406
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great point. historically the man runs a short bench, no surprise it caught up to him.
If the next coach turns Michael Haley, Kris Newbury and Arron Asham into what Boston has in Campbell, Thornton and Paille, you may have a point. If not...you don't.

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06-05-2013, 03:43 PM
  #407
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True, watching Bruins 4th line takes 2-3 shifts out of 4, which gives the top lines a breather
I dont understand the point of opining for this type of thing when, right now, the Rangers bottom 6 pales in comparison to Boston's. Its a personnel issue. So, essentially, what you are hoping for is a fantasy.

And, if you get that right now - without major changes/improvements to the depth, the Rangers are going to lose a lot of games.

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06-05-2013, 03:47 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Torts was in a no-win situation with the bottom 6 for most of the season, especially before the Gaborik trade when we had less depth. People would complain that he didn't play the bottom 6 enough, and then when he did play them, the same people would complain that they "cost us the game."

Ultimately, it was a personnel issue, and that falls on Sather.
stop. Tortorella ran a short bench in TB and he did the same 5yrs here in NY. he did it last year when we were the NY shot blockers as well. I'm not saying we had a dynamite bottom 6, but playing 3m a night is sure bring out the confidence level right?

that ole devil Sather. he done did it again....

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06-05-2013, 03:48 PM
  #409
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If the next coach turns Michael Haley, Kris Newbury and Arron Asham into what Boston has in Campbell, Thornton and Paille, you may have a point. If not...you don't.

regardless, he ran a short bench his entire career...

lol. thank you please call again.

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06-05-2013, 03:51 PM
  #410
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regardless, he ran a short bench his entire career...

lol. thank you please call again.
Regardless, Tortorella would have been stupid to roll his fourth line any more than he did.

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06-05-2013, 03:56 PM
  #411
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Regardless, Tortorella would have been stupid to roll his fourth line any more than he did.
but he did the same thing last year, we when supposedly had better depth. Newbury looked pretty good the limited time he actually played, but giving guys less that 5m a night accomplishes nothing.
He did this his entire tenure. Bottom line, our top six was dead. out top pairings as well.

i never said if we rolled 4 lines we would have the equivalent of what Boston had or have beaten Boston.

let's hope they address this going forward

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06-05-2013, 03:58 PM
  #412
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The Rangers 4th line is not even capable of shutting down other team's 4th lines. We saw this in the ECF last year against the Devils, and again against the Bruins this postseason. Our 4th line was outskated and outhustled, resulting in goals against.

Why should the 4th line get more ice time if they are routinely outplayed by opponents 4th lines? They are overmatched - Paille had 10 goals this year, I'm not even sure if anyone on our 3rd line scored that many, let alone the 4th liners.

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06-05-2013, 03:59 PM
  #413
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but he did the same thing last year, we when supposedly had better depth. Newbury looked pretty good the limited time he actually played, but giving guys less that 5m a night accomplishes nothing.
He did this his entire tenure. Bottom line, our top six was dead. out top pairings as well.

i never said if we rolled 4 lines we would have the equivalent of what Boston had or have beaten Boston.

let's hope they address this going forward
...with better players.

Which means more turnover...which means...ugh.

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06-05-2013, 04:01 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
The Rangers 4th line is not even capable of shutting down other team's 4th lines. We saw this in the ECF last year against the Devils, and again against the Bruins this postseason. Our 4th line was outskated and outhustled, resulting in goals against.

Why should the 4th line get more ice time if they are routinely outplayed by opponents 4th lines? They are overmatched - Paille had 10 goals this year, I'm not even sure if anyone on our 3rd line scored that many, let alone the 4th liners.
Our better 4th liners tend to play on the 3rd line...

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06-05-2013, 04:05 PM
  #415
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Our better 4th liners tend to play on the 3rd line...
And that's because our 3rd liners...

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06-05-2013, 04:11 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
The Rangers 4th line is not even capable of shutting down other team's 4th lines. We saw this in the ECF last year against the Devils, and again against the Bruins this postseason. Our 4th line was outskated and outhustled, resulting in goals against.

Why should the 4th line get more ice time if they are routinely outplayed by opponents 4th lines? They are overmatched - Paille had 10 goals this year, I'm not even sure if anyone on our 3rd line scored that many, let alone the 4th liners.
The Rangers have two of three very good fourth line pieces in Boyle and Dorsett I liked what Pyatt brought in the playoffs this season, but I'd prefer to see him in our 13th forward role. Would like to see the Rangers get a good 4th line LW for those two. Someone speedy that can PK, like a Paille.

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06-05-2013, 04:14 PM
  #417
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The Rangers have two of three very good fourth line pieces in Boyle and Dorsett I liked what Pyatt brought in the playoffs this season, but I'd prefer to see him in our 13th forward role. Would like to see the Rangers get a good 4th line LW for those two. Someone speedy that can PK, like a Paille.
They played 3rd line in the playoffs. Would love to shift them down in the lineup, but doing so requires additional acquisitions or leaps of faith w/ the younger players being ready for the top 9.

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06-05-2013, 04:16 PM
  #418
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
The Rangers have two of three very good fourth line pieces in Boyle and Dorsett — I liked what Pyatt brought in the playoffs this season, but I'd prefer to see him in our 13th forward role. Would like to see the Rangers get a good 4th line LW for those two. Someone speedy that can PK, like a Paille.
I wouldn't mind a 4th line of Dorsett- Boyle-Pyatt

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06-05-2013, 04:17 PM
  #419
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I wouldn't mind a 4th line of Dorsett- Boyle-Pyatt
So you want our third line to become our fourth line. Noble thought...I'd like that too.

Now if you can turn our second line into our third line, you'll REALLY be onto something!

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06-05-2013, 04:18 PM
  #420
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
They played 3rd line in the playoffs. Would love to shift them down in the lineup, but doing so requires additional acquisitions or leaps of faith w/ the younger players being ready for the top 9.
Yeah, that's what I mean the top-9 needs two additions for Boyle/Dorsett to be fourth liners. A 2nd line RW, and a 3rd line center. IMO.

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06-05-2013, 04:18 PM
  #421
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And that's because our 3rd liners...
Depends on the position. In the case of LWs, they're playing on the 1st or 2nd line. In the case of RWs, they don't exist. This past season, in the case of Cs, they don't exist either.

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06-05-2013, 04:19 PM
  #422
Mio41
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So you want our third line to become our fourth line. Noble thought...I'd like that too.
Exactly, like the size and toughness, maybe Lindberg, Miller, Fasth, Thomas can fill in some 3rd line spots

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06-05-2013, 05:11 PM
  #423
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Exactly, like the size and toughness, maybe Lindberg, Miller, Fasth, Thomas can fill in some 3rd line spots
Cannot depend on prospects to fill those spots.. they have to be filled with actual NHL players... the idea is that prospects will grow into specific positions and take their places. Asking those same guys to run an entire line is asking for disaster.

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06-05-2013, 05:26 PM
  #424
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I find it hard to believe that Darroll Powe, Arron Asham, Brandon Mashinter, etc, etc, were just waiting to break out and make a real impact if it wasnt for Torts.
He has a point. You cannot expect players to have an impact in 5 minutes TOI. Powe and Asham both know what it takes to win play-off matches and Mashinter is still better than Haley or Bickel on the 4th.

Speaking of which. What the hell happened to Benn Ferriero?

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06-05-2013, 05:31 PM
  #425
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
The Rangers have two of three very good fourth line pieces in Boyle and Dorsett I liked what Pyatt brought in the playoffs this season, but I'd prefer to see him in our 13th forward role. Would like to see the Rangers get a good 4th line LW for those two. Someone speedy that can PK, like a Paille.
I don't think Pyatt is a bad choice on the fourth line at all. He was just misused in a third line role most of the season.

Frankly, the Pyatt-Boyle-Dorsett line looked like a fully capable third line most of the playoffs to be frank. I will have zero complaints if that's our fourth line next season.

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