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The Luongo Thread: Part Eleventy

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Old
06-05-2013, 12:14 AM
  #101
SunshineRays
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
This makes more sense after the lesser 14 Cap year and going forward, not many teams, Canucks included can carry a bad contract.

And don't kid yourself no multi millionare is spending that kind of money to buy a guy out.

NYI are 99% stuck with RDP and at least it's less than the league average.
Sorry, don't quite understand what you are saying.

It's safe to say one multimillionaire if going to spend that kind of $$ to buy out Dipietro. It might be NYI's owner, might be someone else. Can't imagine NYI is gonna have him and his $4.5M salary on the books while he plays in the AHL for the next 9 years - when it's cheaper to buy him out.

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06-05-2013, 01:00 AM
  #102
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Go reaad the last thread. No disrespect, but I think you don't really know what's going on here.
I got the jist of the thread,m even if I didn't read every single post.

Basically it was some Canuck fans getting super excited at the assets they could get for getting a bad contract to buy out, while totally over looking Lou's bad contract and the Cancusk lack of leverage in his situation.

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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
Sorry, don't quite understand what you are saying.

It's safe to say one multimillionaire if going to spend that kind of $$ to buy out Dipietro. It might be NYI's owner, might be someone else. Can't imagine NYI is gonna have him and his $4.5M salary on the books while he plays in the AHL for the next 9 years - when it's cheaper to buy him out.
My response was to another owner, ie ours trading and getting assets to buy him out, it's very unlikely.

Even if the new owner would agree to buy out his contract, the asking price in assets from the NYI, would be to high to make it a hockey deal IMO.

It's ironic that the NYI are in exactly the opposite situation that Vancouver is in.

They are asking to give less assets than teams want in order to take a player off their hands, while the Canucks are asking too much from other teams to take Lou off their hands.

Just another chapter in the bizarre story of Lou and the Canucks.

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06-05-2013, 01:04 AM
  #103
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Difference is, Lu is actually an NHL starting goalie. And a damn good one at that.

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Old
06-05-2013, 01:09 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
My response was to another owner, ie ours trading and getting assets to buy him out, it's very unlikely.

Even if the new owner would agree to buy out his contract, the asking price in assets from the NYI, would be to high to make it a hockey deal IMO.

It's ironic that the NYI are in exactly the opposite situation that Vancouver is in.

They are asking to give less assets than teams want in order to take a player off their hands, while the Canucks are asking too much from other teams to take Lou off their hands.

Just another chapter in the bizarre story of Lou and the Canucks.
That's what I'm saying - it would be a sizeable package going the other way if another GM took Dipietro. How badly does NYI GM need to get rid of that $$? I'm guessing it's badly considering their activities over last few yrs to get to cap floor - and using Friedman to let every GM know they're willing to 'give' if you 'take'. It's pretty unusual.

Are you somehow comparing the trade values of Dipeitro and Luongo? It's nonsensical. I won't even get into specifics cause it should be obvious.


Last edited by SunshineRays: 06-05-2013 at 01:21 AM.
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Old
06-05-2013, 01:19 AM
  #105
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I'm blown away that some people don't think this has legs. A deal like;

Lu for Nino, 1st RDP

makes their team better and relieves financial pressure. A deal like this isn't likely, it'd mean Gillis accepting that Lu is a negative asset, but it's something both teams have to strongly consider.

On a side note, the league really should have given teams the option of counting Lu type contracts against the cap now. It makes zero sense to force a team like the Isles to pay more money to get to the floor and then penalizing them later for cap circumvention.

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06-05-2013, 12:18 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
I got the jist of the thread,m even if I didn't read every single post.

Basically it was some Canuck fans getting super excited at the assets they could get for getting a bad contract to buy out, while totally over looking Lou's bad contract and the Cancusk lack of leverage in his situation.
I really don't think you do get it. Do you think a team would put a claim in for Luongo if he was on waivers? If you do, then the notion that he has negative value is incorrect, and then it simply becomes a matter of placing a value on the assets required to buy out DiPietro.

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06-05-2013, 12:28 PM
  #107
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If you're going to come in this thread and try and 'break the truth' to Canucks fans, then at least pretend that your opinion is grounded in reality and not complete and utter fantasy. Otherwise it's just going to be treated as trolling.

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06-05-2013, 12:28 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
I really don't think you do get it. Do you think a team would put a claim in for Luongo if he was on waivers? If you do, then the notion that he has negative value is incorrect, and then it simply becomes a matter of placing a value on the assets required to buy out DiPietro.
Luongo doesn't have the same value to every team. If the Islanders wouldn't pick him up on waivers, then he has negative value to the Islanders, and from their perspective they wouldn't feel like they should add anything. While I'm sure there are several teams that would claim Luongo off of waivers, I'm not convinced NYI are one of them.

So I agree with your point in general, but don't agree it necessarily applies to a possible trade with the Islanders.

 
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06-05-2013, 12:30 PM
  #109
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Luongo doesn't have the same value to every team. If the Islanders wouldn't pick him up on waivers, then he has negative value to the Islanders, and from their perspective they wouldn't feel like they should add anything. While I'm sure there are several teams that would claim Luongo off of waivers, I'm not convinced NYI are one of them.

So I agree with your point in general, but don't necessarily agree it applies to a possible trade with the Islanders.
If he has negative value to the Islanders then Canucks will simply trade him/waive him elsewhere and then demand more assets to take on DiPietro without Luongo going the other way. Ultimately, the Islanders will have to give up Niederreiter + 1st type of value or even more to get rid of DiPietro. If they want to be a playoff team, it would make more sense to acquire Luongo in the process.

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06-05-2013, 12:33 PM
  #110
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Yes, of course, and that is what most Islanders fans have been saying.
No, what they've saying is that teams will take on DiPietro out of the goodness of their heart (for something like a 2nd round pick or mediocre prospect) or that Wang will somehow do a full 180 and buy out DiPietro with his own money.

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06-05-2013, 12:34 PM
  #111
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Ultimately, the Islanders will have to give up Niederreiter + 1st type of value or even more to get rid of DiPietro.
Probably, which is why I don't expect them to get rid of DiPietro.

 
Old
06-05-2013, 12:35 PM
  #112
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Yeah, if Luongo has value league-wide and the Islanders wouldn't take him on waivers, then it makes no sense for the Canucks to send him to the Islanders. They could just take on Dipietro plus the assets they want and send Luongo to another team who does value him.

Assuming Luongo at the very least wouldn't clear waivers, he won't go to the Islanders if he has negative value in their eyes.

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06-05-2013, 12:36 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
No, what they've saying is that teams will take on DiPietro out of the goodness of their heart (for something like a 2nd round pick or mediocre prospect) or that Wang will somehow do a full 180 and buy out DiPietro with his own money.
I disagree. They are expressing how far they are willing to go to dump DiPietro (not very far), but they are not saying they actually expect anyone to make such a deal. Most Islanders fans comments that I've seen have been pretty clear that they expect DiPietro to remain an Islander or get bought out by the Islanders.

What I'm seeing is a lot of Canucks fans misinterpreting and jumping all over them for no good reason, TBH.

 
Old
06-05-2013, 12:39 PM
  #114
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Difference is, Lu is actually an NHL starting goalie. And a damn good one at that.
Yeah, this is the disconnect I'm seeing here from other fans. Luongo is an impact player ... so it isn't a straight "bad contract for bad contract" trade. It isn't like the Islanders will then be buying Luongo out ... in fact, as mentioned, it will likely make the team better for the next 3-4 years. Vancouver, on the other hand, is just taking a $24MM mess back.

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06-05-2013, 12:43 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
Yeah, if Luongo has value league-wide and the Islanders wouldn't take him on waivers, then it makes no sense for the Canucks to send him to the Islanders. They could just take on Dipietro plus the assets they want and send Luongo to another team who does value him.

Assuming Luongo at the very least wouldn't clear waivers, he won't go to the Islanders if he has negative value in their eyes.
Exactly.

And if Luongo would clear waivers, I think he'd be willing to not report so that the Canucks could void his contract. He's already made bank on the best years of his deal, and he could easily go sign a 3 year 15-18 million dollar contract wherever he wants to play.

He never would clear waivers, in my estimation, but I do think there is zero chance Luongo nas negative asset value.

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06-05-2013, 12:47 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
I disagree. They are expressing how far they are willing to go to dump DiPietro (not very far), but they are not saying they actually expect anyone to make such a deal. Most Islanders fans comments that I've seen have been pretty clear that they expect DiPietro to remain an Islander or get bought out by the Islanders.

What I'm seeing is a lot of Canucks fans misinterpreting and jumping all over them for no good reason, TBH.
It just seems like hopeless optimism on the part of their fans. Wang has no history of spending any money he doesn't have to in order to further the franchise. They're a cap floor team that doesn't even spend to the cap floor. They slashed their scouting budget.

And more than that, there are reports from respected hockey writers (like Friedman) that say the Islanders have already told clubs they'd trade his contract in an asset exchange. It's one thing to hope Wang would buy out the deal, but something else entirely to push this fantasy that somehow they'll get Luongo and 24 million dollars for "a decent player or prospect". They probably wouldn't even Luongo for that little.

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06-05-2013, 12:58 PM
  #117
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This thread seems a bit off track. If the Canucks acquired the DiPietro contract from the Islanders, I'd want something like this:

Neiderreiter + Neilsen + 2nd

or

Strome + De Haan + 2nd

Neither option dramatically weakens the Islanders on-ice product. If they wanted Luongo back, I'd expect a bit more added value, such as upgrading to 1st rounders

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06-05-2013, 01:05 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
This thread seems a bit off track. If the Canucks acquired the DiPietro contract from the Islanders, I'd want something like this:

Neiderreiter + Neilsen + 2nd

or

Strome + De Haan + 2nd

Neither option dramatically weakens the Islanders on-ice product. If they wanted Luongo back, I'd expect a bit more added value, such as upgrading to 1st rounders

The Canucks should be doing this type of thing regardless. Leveraging their wealth for assets. As should TOR, PHI, MTL, or any other rich team.

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06-05-2013, 01:06 PM
  #119
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The Canucks should be doing this type of thing regardless. Leveraging their wealth for assets. As should TOR, PHI, MTL, or any other rich team.
Toronto, Rangers and Montreal dwarf the Canucks in profits so I could see one of those 3 teams taking a lesser offer than the Canucks would be willing to. Then again, the nature of the Toronto's ownership situation might make that difficult. Not familiar with the owners of the Rangers or Habs to say anything.

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06-05-2013, 01:09 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
This thread seems a bit off track. If the Canucks acquired the DiPietro contract from the Islanders, I'd want something like this:

Neiderreiter + Neilsen + 2nd

or

Strome + De Haan + 2nd

Neither option dramatically weakens the Islanders on-ice product. If they wanted Luongo back, I'd expect a bit more added value, such as upgrading to 1st rounders
This looks good for Vancouver, but if the Islanders are going to shop RD's contract, then don't you think there will be a market of several teams, which will drive the price down? They will get at least 5 teams bidding (in a backwards way). I don't see the type of return you suggest.

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06-05-2013, 01:09 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Toronto, Rangers and Montreal dwarf the Canucks in profits so I could see one of those 3 teams taking a lesser offer than the Canucks would be willing to. Then again, the nature of the Toronto's ownership situation might make that difficult. Not familiar with the owners of the Rangers or Habs to say anything.
james dolan loves throwing money at everything and anything that moves but he might be getting sick of it by now...

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06-05-2013, 01:12 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
This thread seems a bit off track. If the Canucks acquired the DiPietro contract from the Islanders, I'd want something like this:

Neiderreiter + Neilsen + 2nd

or

Strome + De Haan + 2nd

Neither option dramatically weakens the Islanders on-ice product. If they wanted Luongo back, I'd expect a bit more added value, such as upgrading to 1st rounders
neider/nielsen/1st/dipi for lu would make my entire ******* summer. i understand the reasoning but i dont think id even dream of a return like that

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06-05-2013, 01:13 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Toronto, Rangers and Montreal dwarf the Canucks in profits so I could see one of those 3 teams taking a lesser offer than the Canucks would be willing to. Then again, the nature of the Toronto's ownership situation might make that difficult. Not familiar with the owners of the Rangers or Habs to say anything.
Is Vancouver's owner being sued for divorce? If this is true, would not that be an issue?

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Old
06-05-2013, 01:14 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Toronto, Rangers and Montreal dwarf the Canucks in profits so I could see one of those 3 teams taking a lesser offer than the Canucks would be willing to. Then again, the nature of the Toronto's ownership situation might make that difficult. Not familiar with the owners of the Rangers or Habs to say anything.
Not sure how much less they'd take, though. At a certain point, the money is probably better spend on college/european free agents if you're not getting the value. Still a business, after all.

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06-05-2013, 01:15 PM
  #125
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Is Vancouver's owner being sued for divorce? If this is true, would not that be an issue?
dipietro's cost is $1.5m a year. probably not

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