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Is Rask a top 5 goalie?

View Poll Results: Is Rask a top 5 goalie?
Yes 124 56.62%
Not Yet - but future top 5 62 28.31%
No 33 15.07%
Voters: 219. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-06-2013, 11:15 PM
  #76
TAnnala
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Originally Posted by jfisher6 View Post
Goalies seem like such enigmas beyond Quick/Lundqvist/Rinne. Seems like there's a new #4/5 every year
Has Quick really been elite for longer than Rask? Or are you just proving you't point by yourself too?

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06-06-2013, 11:21 PM
  #77
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I would put him 4th, behind Lundqvist, Quick and Rinne

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06-06-2013, 11:30 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
Has Quick really been elite for longer than Rask? Or are you just proving you't point by yourself too?
I'm not trying to prove a point, it's just my opinion. Is that okay with you?

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06-07-2013, 02:37 AM
  #79
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He has ability to be number one goalie in the league, but i need at least 1 more year to see if his head is up to task. Obviously if he plays like this and wins SC and CS then he is top-3 already.

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06-07-2013, 03:22 AM
  #80
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For sure he is top5. I would only rank Quick and Lundy above him right now.

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06-07-2013, 03:42 AM
  #81
TAnnala
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Originally Posted by jfisher6 View Post
I'm not trying to prove a point, it's just my opinion. Is that okay with you?
Well, you just pointed out that there is a new #4/5 every year and included Rask in that "new every year" category. In the same sentence you picked Quick as one of the solid top-3 even if he actually has one year with over with .918 percentage and Rask has never dropped below it.

By your analogy the position of Quick and Rask should be reversed.

I am not saying that Quick isn't necessary better than Rask, but he has no more games as a "elite" goalie than Rask.

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06-07-2013, 04:10 AM
  #82
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Echoing several posters, the only three I place DEFINITIVELY ahead of Rask are Rinne, Lundqvist and Quick. Afterwards, there's a group of eight-to-ten guys who are really close.

Rask headlines that list (and would be ~5 in my current rankings) but I wouldn't speak ill of anyone who puts him somewhere in the top ten.

Rask's numbers are daunting (lead by the best save percentage in NHL history for a goalie w/ 100 games under his belt... by a significant margin) but they're no doubt helped by the fantastic team he plays behind.

The reservations about full-season play are justified, however. Elite goaltenders are customarily expected to play 60+ games for their team, and Rask hasn't come close to that. Durability and night-in-night-out consistency matter. If his current playoff showing was coming on the heels of a 55-60 game regular season, I'd have no qualms pumping his tires and placing him among the pantheon of active goaltending greats. Unfortunately, that isn't the case.

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06-07-2013, 06:13 AM
  #83
TAnnala
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Originally Posted by Bob Mand THW View Post
Echoing several posters, the only three I place DEFINITIVELY ahead of Rask are Rinne, Lundqvist and Quick. Afterwards, there's a group of eight-to-ten guys who are really close.

Rask headlines that list (and would be ~5 in my current rankings) but I wouldn't speak ill of anyone who puts him somewhere in the top ten.

Rask's numbers are daunting (lead by the best save percentage in NHL history for a goalie w/ 100 games under his belt... by a significant margin) but they're no doubt helped by the fantastic team he plays behind.

The reservations about full-season play are justified, however. Elite goaltenders are customarily expected to play 60+ games for their team, and Rask hasn't come close to that. Durability and night-in-night-out consistency matter. If his current playoff showing was coming on the heels of a 55-60 game regular season, I'd have no qualms pumping his tires and placing him among the pantheon of active goaltending greats. Unfortunately, that isn't the case.
I think you you are quite right here.

The position of goaltender has evolved easily the most in the last 10 years. One of these examples is that Rask is displaying numbers that are best of all-time. Not taking anything away from Rask, or any other goalie. But if the numbers tell's us that we are enjoying 5 top-20 goalie performances of all-time it gives a reasonable reason to suspect the numbers.

But what it comes down to Rask, I also would like to see him posting same numbers around 60 GP in season. Kiprusoff never posted the same statistical level as Rask has, but Miikka played frequently +70 games. If I have to choose 30-40 games of excellence vs. 70+ games of good/great it is not a hard choice.

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06-07-2013, 09:38 AM
  #84
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Would it be fair to factor in the games he has played in Europe this season in order to grade his durability? Rask, after all, has played 68 total games while compiling a record of 42-19-6. I would venture a guess that he's been one of the heaviest worked goalies this season when you factor everything in. The mental aspect of a full 82 game season for him hasn't been tested, but in terms of durability, I think this season is a good sign.

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06-07-2013, 10:05 AM
  #85
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Yes, AINEC..... This run just solidifies it.

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06-07-2013, 03:38 PM
  #86
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Rask has had one season splitting time with Thomas (becoming starter towards the end of 2009-10), and then a half-season as the undisputed starter. I'd still like to see more out of Rask before elevating him to top 5. Right now I would say:

Lundqvist <-- 8 seasons as a starter without a bad year
Quick <-- Vezina finalist, Cup and Conn Smythe last year, and another strong playoff this year
Rinne <-- Vezina finalist 2011, 2012
Howard <-- broke in same year as Rask, but has been a starter for all 4 seasons. Also had a great playoffs this year.
Luongo <-- Vezina finalist 2011. He's currently in a platoon but having a 12-year track record as a starter before this year really helps his case.

Other goalies knocking on the door: Ward, Lehtonen, Price, Schneider, Niemi, Smith

It would be hard not to have Rask top-5 if he wins the Cup though or if he has a good year in a full season 2013-14, so we'll see.

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06-07-2013, 06:42 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
Rask has had one season splitting time with Thomas (becoming starter towards the end of 2009-10), and then a half-season as the undisputed starter. I'd still like to see more out of Rask before elevating him to top 5. Right now I would say:

Lundqvist <-- 8 seasons as a starter without a bad year
Quick <-- Vezina finalist, Cup and Conn Smythe last year, and another strong playoff this year
Rinne <-- Vezina finalist 2011, 2012
Howard <-- broke in same year as Rask, but has been a starter for all 4 seasons. Also had a great playoffs this year.
Luongo <-- Vezina finalist 2011. He's currently in a platoon but having a 12-year track record as a starter before this year really helps his case.

Other goalies knocking on the door: Ward, Lehtonen, Price, Schneider, Niemi, Smith

It would be hard not to have Rask top-5 if he wins the Cup though or if he has a good year in a full season 2013-14, so we'll see.
Tuukka Rask has faced 5,222 shots at the NHL level and posted a 0.928sv%. He has played portions of 4 seasons and in 3 of those seasons, his save percentage was 0.929 or better. Over 5 thousand shots faced! What more do you need to see from him?

For comparison, Quick has faced 9,486 shots and posted a 0.918sv%, and in just one of his 5 seasons has his save percentage been over that 0.918 mark.

Amazing what one incredible year will do for a guys reputation.

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06-08-2013, 05:06 AM
  #88
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Yes, Rask is clearly top 5.

Quick is considered top 5 based on a small sample size of his playoff performances (people don't mention his mediocre career numbers) however Rask has been dominating his ENTIRE career. His numbers blow out Quick and it's not close. At all.

Top 5 goalies currently:
1. Lundqvist
2. Rask
3. Quick
4. Rinne (although he's pretty iffy)
5. Schneider/Niemi/Howard

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06-08-2013, 05:59 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
Tuukka Rask has faced 5,222 shots at the NHL level and posted a 0.928sv%. He has played portions of 4 seasons and in 3 of those seasons, his save percentage was 0.929 or better. Over 5 thousand shots faced! What more do you need to see from him?

For comparison, Quick has faced 9,486 shots and posted a 0.918sv%, and in just one of his 5 seasons has his save percentage been over that 0.918 mark.

Amazing what one incredible year will do for a guys reputation.
45 GP as career high, four years ago. That's not impressive. It's not the amount of shots you have faced, it's divided by the time span in which you've faced it. When Rask has faced 2000 shots in a single season - not half a career - then he has proved he has the skill, the focus and the stamina to be considered a top goalie. And that's one season.

Quick has proven himself in the grueling regular season, Rask has not (even though I agree Quick's sample size is also small). Yet. Otherwise Halak and Elliott are arguably top 5 goalies as well.


Last edited by Chimp: 06-08-2013 at 06:06 AM.
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06-08-2013, 06:11 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominate Kesler View Post
Yes, Rask is clearly top 5.

Quick is considered top 5 based on a small sample size of his playoff performances (people don't mention his mediocre career numbers) however Rask has been dominating his ENTIRE career. His numbers blow out Quick and it's not close. At all.

Top 5 goalies currently:
1. Lundqvist
2. Rask
3. Quick
4. Rinne (although he's pretty iffy)
5. Schneider/Niemi/Howard
Perfect post right here ladies and gentlemen. A lot of people seem to forget that Rask has highest save percentage of all time for starting goaltenders. He's been out in the shadows only because Thomas was having a Conn Smythe + Vezina seasons. Rask has been dominating his whole career and now that he got the chance to do it in the playoffs he's getting the recognition.

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06-08-2013, 06:13 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
45 GP as career high, four years ago. That's not impressive. It's not the amount of shots you have faced, it's divided by the time span in which you've faced it. When Rask has faced 2000 shots in a single season - not half a career - then he has proved he has the skill, the focus and the stamina to be considered a top goalie. And that's one season.

Quick has proven himself in the grueling regular season, Rask has not (even though I agree Quick's sample size is also small). Yet. Otherwise Halak and Elliott are arguably top 5 goalies as well.
Nice to see you're still completely out to lunch regarding goalies. Don't panic. Everyone here appreciate Lundqvist as the consensus number one for the time being.

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06-08-2013, 06:32 AM
  #92
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yes ive seen him top 5/soon to be top 5 for a few years now. he just had thomas ahead of him. lucky boston

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06-08-2013, 06:40 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Daishi View Post
Nice to see you're still completely out to lunch regarding goalies. Don't panic. Everyone here appreciate Lundqvist as the consensus number one for the time being.
Oh I'm sorry, I forgot Finnish goalies should be evaluated differently than all other goaltenders. Rask has to show the goods during at least one grueling season as the clear #1 for his team to be considered top 5 in the world, is that such an outlandish claim? That's what separates top goalies from the rest, they're consistently great and workhorses.

It's alot easier posting great numbers playing sheltered minutes than to ride the highs and lows of the entire team and be the backbone basically every game, especially when the team is struggling big time. Ask Kipper. Do I think Rask can? Yes. Has he actually done it? No. Proven consistency is not up for speculation.


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06-08-2013, 09:29 AM
  #94
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Hank, Rinne, Quick as the top 3 then comes a tight, fairly large group of guys that can all make a really solid case in being top 5.

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06-08-2013, 09:40 AM
  #95
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If he shows up big time in the 2013-14 campaign, he's definitely in top 5.

I'm not sure he's there yet. Because of Thomas he hasn't had a fair amount of chances.

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06-08-2013, 09:55 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
45 GP as career high, four years ago. That's not impressive. It's not the amount of shots you have faced, it's divided by the time span in which you've faced it. When Rask has faced 2000 shots in a single season - not half a career - then he has proved he has the skill, the focus and the stamina to be considered a top goalie. And that's one season.

Quick has proven himself in the grueling regular season, Rask has not (even though I agree Quick's sample size is also small). Yet. Otherwise Halak and Elliott are arguably top 5 goalies as well.
What? IMO it's pretty hard to be a #2 goalie, play every now and then and still put up good numbers. You have to be focused.

Yes he is hardly a top 5 goalie, and he is yet to prove that he can handle a 60 game season but outside of that he has always been very good.

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06-08-2013, 09:58 AM
  #97
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My Top 10 (Not just based on this season):

1) Henrik Lundqvist
2) Jonathan Quick
3) Pekka Rinne
4) Tuukka Rask
5) Carey Price
6) Antti Niemi
7) Roberto Luongo
8) Craig Anderson
9) Sergei Bobrovski
10) Karri Lehtonen

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06-08-2013, 10:01 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
Oh I'm sorry, I forgot Finnish goalies should be evaluated differently than all other goaltenders
Once again your national insecurity rears its ugly head. You have to see someone about that.

A few weeks ago consistency was the most important thing for you, but since Rask has actually better career stats than any goalie in the world, the important thing now is being a workhorse. Rask is probably the best goalie in the world right now, in fact there's very little doubt he is considering the zone he's in. If you don't think he has proven it yet, I'd say it's only a good thing, because that only means he's young and has a longer and possibly brighter future than older goalies like Lundqvist and Rinne.

If we use your criteria the only goalie that belongs in the top5 is Lundqvist, although his stats are weaker than Rask's and he's never won a conn smythe or a cup. Quick certainly doesn't belong at the top. He's had one good year. Rinne played absolutely terrible this year so he's out. Bob? Niemi? Both of those had good years but they're far from being elite. Bob is a backup who got hot in Columbus for one streak and Niemi is a middle of the pack NHL goalie who allows regular soft goals but played better than normal this year.

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06-08-2013, 02:01 PM
  #99
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Now he is.

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06-08-2013, 05:28 PM
  #100
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Not yet. People have to put in perspective his sample size. He has never played 50 games in a regular season. And he has never been on an what I would even say is an average team.

He is playing great. He's also on a great team, both offensively and defensively. He's having a great run on what is clearly the best team in the Eastern Conference. He's played a big part in it, but the team itself is playing at another level right now.

I think you can argue Rask is a top five goaltender, but until you actually see him start 65+ games, put up a great season, and can do it for multiple years, you can't just give him top-5 validation.

Than again, who is in the top-5? Lundqvist, Quick, and Rinne would all be in front of him (although I'd argue that Quick hasn't had the consistency or longevity that Lundqvist/Rinne has displayed). Who is after Lundqvist, Quick and Rinne?

It's a real toss up. And you can argue that Rask would fit into the mix. Personally, I'd want to see more than 130 career games, spread out over four years, before I group him with Lundqvist, Quick, Rinne, etc.

And, IMO, winning a Conn Smythe won't change it. He can win the Conn Smythe, and all that would prove to me is that he was given an opportunity with the Bruins and he took advantage of it. Right now, you can argue that Krejci (my personal favorite for the Smythe), Chara, Rask, and Bergeron could all be Conn Smythe winners. Horton and Marchand have been big game performers too. It reminds me a lot of last year with Quick where the team had a handful of candidates viable for the Conn Smythe.

He's a good to great goaltender who has taken advantage of the situation he is in. And I give him props for that. Other goaltenders, like Lundqvist and Rinne, haven't been on a legitimate Stanley Cup contending team yet, and haven't had the opportunity to take their team there. And that doesn't make them any less of a player. Teams win. Teams lose. No single player wins a Cup and because of that, Cup accomplishments can't make one player better than another, IMO.

I know, however, that this will certainly raise his stock amongst hockey fans.

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