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Old
06-18-2013, 12:16 AM
  #151
nik jr
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imo, hart, norris and selke were badly awarded.

i would have voted crosby, suter and bergeron.


ovechkin was weak at ES and defensively, and relied on killing the crappy SE division. crosby was clearly at a much higher level than ovechkin.

tavares was probably the worst hart finalist in decades.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladdy84 View Post
Love watching the Bruins. Gonna hate playing them next year. The Wings have Dats and Z but then they don't have anywhere near the same level as Lucic, Krejic, Seguin, Marchand and Bergeron. Those guys are so much better than the Wings 3rd - 6th forwards. And I'm not even counting Horton and Jagr because we'll they're probably gone next year and not nearly as good as the others mentioned.
their defensive structure and team D are very nice.

their relative lack of skill makes them less enjoyable, though.

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06-18-2013, 06:49 AM
  #152
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I disagree about the hart nikjr, the Penguins didn't need Crosby during the regular season to be dominant, they won just as much or more without him. The Caps went nowhere without Ovechkin and his resurgence.

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06-18-2013, 06:57 AM
  #153
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Ted Lindsay award probably mean more to the players, and yet there is more hype about the Hart (even though the voters are pretty much clueless journalists)

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06-18-2013, 08:01 AM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladdy84 View Post
Love watching the Bruins. Gonna hate playing them next year. The Wings have Dats and Z but then they don't have anywhere near the same level as Lucic, Krejic, Seguin, Marchand and Bergeron. Those guys are so much better than the Wings 3rd - 6th forwards. And I'm not even counting Horton and Jagr because we'll they're probably gone next year and not nearly as good as the others mentioned.
We definitely dont have the same skill they do but I think its more in depth that the top 5 or 6 players. If you add Horton its not close obviously.

Datsyuk > Bergeron
Z > Krejic
Franzen < Lucic are close point wise but Lucic is way more physical
Marchand - Nyquist
Seguin - Tatar, Brunner, FA

If we add a few skill players and let a few of our 3rd and 4th liners playing in the top 6 then we arent that far off.

I think the obvious difference is their defense. The way they move the puck out of the zone against Chicago is really impressive. It gets them moving and into the offensive zone.

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Old
06-18-2013, 08:57 AM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendricks433 View Post
We definitely dont have the same skill they do but I think its more in depth that the top 5 or 6 players. If you add Horton its not close obviously.

Datsyuk > Bergeron
Z > Krejic
Franzen < Lucic are close point wise but Lucic is way more physical
Marchand - Nyquist
Seguin - Tatar, Brunner, FA

If we add a few skill players and let a few of our 3rd and 4th liners playing in the top 6 then we arent that far off.

I think the obvious difference is their defense. The way they move the puck out of the zone against Chicago is really impressive. It gets them moving and into the offensive zone.
In a head to head matchup, Bergeron and Datsyuk are very close.

Bergeron is smarter imo and better defensively. Yes better.

Sure he gets help from Chara but he is faring lot better against Toews than Dats did. And what he did against Crosby. Datsyuk hasn't done that for a while, if ever.

Dats has looked real slow the last two postseasons. Maybe it's just coincidence but he is getting up there in age and maybe can't maintain his high level of play all season long.

Guess Z is better than Krejci in playoffs.. but this one is close and won't be easy for Z to maintain that advantage as the mileage gets higher.

Marchand is a LOT better than Nyquist. Like better, ainec.

Nyquist has a total of 18 points in his NHL career, in 58 games. Marchand had 19 in Boston SC run 2 years ago, in 25 games. Hell, Marchand score 18 goals just this season.

Nyquist has potential to be as good or close to it imo but as of now, they aren't comparable.

Seguin hasn't been great this season but still gets the nod over Brunner or Tatar. Tatar was actually drafted year earlier than Seguin, Tatar looked good but still has nothing on Ty right now. Brunner is closer but Sequin's track record is just better.

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06-18-2013, 10:35 AM
  #156
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I fail to see how he's fairing better against Toews, for one Z was matched up on him and for two through 3 games the scoreline is almost identical. He was -1 1a and vs b's he's E no points.

I think Bergeron is one heck of a player and his defensive skillsets are completely different compared to Dats.

The difference maker to me is that Dats can take over a game at both ends some nights and there is nothing anyone can do to stop him.

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06-18-2013, 10:41 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opivy View Post
I fail to see how he's fairing better against Toews, for one Z was matched up on him and for two through 3 games the scoreline is almost identical. He was -1 1a and vs b's he's E no points.

I think Bergeron is one heck of a player and his defensive skillsets are completely different compared to Dats.

The difference maker to me is that Dats can take over a game at both ends some nights and there is nothing anyone can do to stop him.
Z was matched up against Toews bc Dats couldn't handle him. I think he was against Toews in game 1, and the reg. season, not sure. But that has a lot to do with style, Z is one of the best in man to man D, esp. north south players like Toews.

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06-18-2013, 01:30 PM
  #158
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Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 23 min
Not clear yet whether Corban Knight becomes UFA on July 1st or 5th but won't matter - agreed to terms on 2-yr entry level deal with CGY.

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06-18-2013, 03:07 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
In a head to head matchup, Bergeron and Datsyuk are very close.

Bergeron is smarter imo and better defensively. Yes better.

Sure he gets help from Chara but he is faring lot better against Toews than Dats did. And what he did against Crosby. Datsyuk hasn't done that for a while, if ever.

Dats has looked real slow the last two postseasons. Maybe it's just coincidence but he is getting up there in age and maybe can't maintain his high level of play all season long.

Guess Z is better than Krejci in playoffs.. but this one is close and won't be easy for Z to maintain that advantage as the mileage gets higher.

Marchand is a LOT better than Nyquist. Like better, ainec.

Nyquist has a total of 18 points in his NHL career, in 58 games. Marchand had 19 in Boston SC run 2 years ago, in 25 games. Hell, Marchand score 18 goals just this season.

Nyquist has potential to be as good or close to it imo but as of now, they aren't comparable.

Seguin hasn't been great this season but still gets the nod over Brunner or Tatar. Tatar was actually drafted year earlier than Seguin, Tatar looked good but still has nothing on Ty right now. Brunner is closer but Sequin's track record is just better.
Well done!

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Old
06-18-2013, 03:11 PM
  #160
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Phoenix goes to Seattle.

Two of Las Vegas/Omaha/Houston/Kansas City get the two expansion teams to get the league to 32 teams.

Leaning Las Vegas and Houston there. Canada melts down about Quebec waiting for an Eastern Conference team to have to relocate.

But this is what I think the NHL is doing and despite the fact a lot of people are going to hate it, I agree.

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Old
06-18-2013, 07:18 PM
  #161
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NHL screwed the pooch on relocation. I was floored when they did it that early, especially when they weren't trying to just pass the original plan. They're messed up right now. They can't contract, NHLPA won't allow it. It would be a bad business decision to expand considering what happened to Pheonix. Can't expand east, otherwise Detroit and Columbus are pushed back west. Can't have natural realignment, because Detroit and Columbus are pushed back west and all of the money makers in the east are bunched in one division. As I see it, the solution to the realignment problem is to force the two Florida teams to relocate out west. This solves realignment, with 15 teams in the west and 15 in the east. Relocate them to Kansas City and Seattle. This also clears the hurdle of a new team in a new market, because those cities get teams with established talent and stars to attract more fans.

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Old
06-19-2013, 12:18 AM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I disagree about the hart nikjr, the Penguins didn't need Crosby during the regular season to be dominant, they won just as much or more without him. The Caps went nowhere without Ovechkin and his resurgence.
is the hart trophy for individual performance, or for how weak the team is?

i don't much of a history in last several decades of hart being awarded like that. '70 bruins made multiple finals after losing orr and esposito. oilers won in '90 without gretzky. penguins often missed playoffs with lemieux and were 4-1 in '92 playoffs without him. habs had a dynasty after losing mutiple hart winners in late '50 and early '60s.


why did ovechkin win the hart in '10? washington's record was basically the same without him: 7-2-1. was howard more deserving than ovechkin in 2010? osgood was below .500 with terrible numbers.

penguins made playoffs in '11 without malkin, and were 4-2-1 without him in '12, but he won the hart. who should have won?

lots of teams went nowhere without a key player. howard was more valuable than crosby this season, then. would you have voted for howard before crosby?


crosby was clearly a lot better than ovechkin both offensively and defensively.



if hart should be awarded for getting mediocrity into the playoffs, it should almost always go to goalies on mediocre teams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
Z was matched up against Toews bc Dats couldn't handle him. I think he was against Toews in game 1, and the reg. season, not sure. But that has a lot to do with style, Z is one of the best in man to man D, esp. north south players like Toews.
i don't see this. outside of game 1, in which DRW were terrible, i don't think toews did better vs datsyuk than zetterberg until datsyuk's knee made him slow. toews' line tended to dominate territorially, but had trouble finishing.

toews has been subpar offensively throughout the playoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
In a head to head matchup, Bergeron and Datsyuk are very close.

Bergeron is smarter imo and better defensively. Yes better.

Sure he gets help from Chara but he is faring lot better against Toews than Dats did. And what he did against Crosby. Datsyuk hasn't done that for a while, if ever.

Dats has looked real slow the last two postseasons. Maybe it's just coincidence but he is getting up there in age and maybe can't maintain his high level of play all season long.

Guess Z is better than Krejci in playoffs.. but this one is close and won't be easy for Z to maintain that advantage as the mileage gets higher.

Marchand is a LOT better than Nyquist. Like better, ainec.

Nyquist has a total of 18 points in his NHL career, in 58 games. Marchand had 19 in Boston SC run 2 years ago, in 25 games. Hell, Marchand score 18 goals just this season.

Nyquist has potential to be as good or close to it imo but as of now, they aren't comparable.

Seguin hasn't been great this season but still gets the nod over Brunner or Tatar. Tatar was actually drafted year earlier than Seguin, Tatar looked good but still has nothing on Ty right now. Brunner is closer but Sequin's track record is just better.
agree

bergeron is better defensively than datsyuk and zetterberg defensively, and should have won the selke again. he should have been a selke finalist last season, imo.

i don't think he stood out especially vs pittsburgh, though. boston's team D was outstanding and the forwards who stood out the most to me in defensive play stood out for being weaker defensively.

datsyuk was slow after his knee injury throughout later part of last season, playoffs and in WC. he seemed slower this season than a couple of years ago, but not by a lot. looked like he got tired more easily rather than struggling with his knee.

but vs chicago, he looked again like he did after his knee injury.

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Old
06-19-2013, 06:21 AM
  #163
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I read this last night on twitter and just thought it was BS...but seems like Colorado wouldn't draft Jones with the number 1 pick? What in the actual ****?

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Old
06-19-2013, 07:58 AM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
In a head to head matchup, Bergeron and Datsyuk are very close.

Bergeron is smarter imo and better defensively. Yes better.

Sure he gets help from Chara but he is faring lot better against Toews than Dats did. And what he did against Crosby. Datsyuk hasn't done that for a while, if ever.

Dats has looked real slow the last two postseasons. Maybe it's just coincidence but he is getting up there in age and maybe can't maintain his high level of play all season long.

Guess Z is better than Krejci in playoffs.. but this one is close and won't be easy for Z to maintain that advantage as the mileage gets higher.

Marchand is a LOT better than Nyquist. Like better, ainec.

Nyquist has a total of 18 points in his NHL career, in 58 games. Marchand had 19 in Boston SC run 2 years ago, in 25 games. Hell, Marchand score 18 goals just this season.

Nyquist has potential to be as good or close to it imo but as of now, they aren't comparable.

Seguin hasn't been great this season but still gets the nod over Brunner or Tatar. Tatar was actually drafted year earlier than Seguin, Tatar looked good but still has nothing on Ty right now. Brunner is closer but Sequin's track record is just better.
I agree with all of that, I was just showing that for our top players its pretty close. Obviously our best players are older while Bostons are 25-27 which makes a big difference for long playoff runs.

I do disagree that Datsyuk cant handle Toews. Babcock put Z on him the entire series because he plays a different defensive style that would work better than Datsyuks.

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06-19-2013, 09:21 AM
  #165
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I read this last night on twitter and just thought it was BS...but seems like Colorado wouldn't draft Jones with the number 1 pick? What in the actual ****?
1. They think Jones won't be that good. That tools won't translate as well. He is also 94, born, more matured than many.

2. They want to hurry up, and trade Statsny for D, go hard after couple of UFAs or trade market to fill the missing pieces.

3. They have trade in works for 15-20 area or something like that and feel like there is D that could also be close to Jones (Morrissey, Pulock) but there is no forward as good as Mac or Barkov in that area and feel that it's the best choice.

4. It's BS/bluff whatever.

5. They are really, really high on one of those forwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendricks433 View Post
I agree with all of that, I was just showing that for our top players its pretty close. Obviously our best players are older while Bostons are 25-27 which makes a big difference for long playoff runs.

I do disagree that Datsyuk cant handle Toews. Babcock put Z on him the entire series because he plays a different defensive style that would work better than Datsyuks.
Yeah, it's not that Dats doesn't have the ability but considering what Dats had to work with and rest of the team depth, Z fits better than Hank against Toews. Datsyuk would have talent/ability to do it but it's not his game/style.

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06-19-2013, 09:37 AM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
is the hart trophy for individual performance, or for how weak the team is?
I agree with the majority of your points, but I think given the Crosby vs. Ovechkin thing last year Ovechkin ended up having a more MVPish year. The biggest argument against it was that he basically played half a season.

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06-19-2013, 07:53 PM
  #167
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That looked weird how Crawford was expecting the pass and just looked in shock when Peverley shot the puck.

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06-19-2013, 07:56 PM
  #168
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Quote:
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That looked weird how Crawford was expecting the pass and just looked in shock when Peverley shot the puck.
Not knowing your opponent very well there, Peverley loves to shoot.

Saad was a dumpster fire there too.

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06-19-2013, 08:18 PM
  #169
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Handzus outstkated Bergeron down the ice for that SHG.

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Old
06-19-2013, 10:34 PM
  #170
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Hopefully Boston can take two of the next three.

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Old
06-20-2013, 08:09 AM
  #171
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06-20-2013, 01:33 PM
  #172
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NHL on TSN ‏@NHLonTSN 3 min
The Dallas Stars are in the process of hiring Lindy Ruff as the team's next head coach.

Mike Heika ‏@MikeHeika 7 min
Just talked to Jim Lites and he said tap the brakes on Lindy Ruff hiring. Said they like him a lot but nothing is done yet.

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Lindy Ruff might very well be the next head coach, and he is in Frisco right now, so draw your own conclusions on that.

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While Lindy Ruff appears to have the inside track on the Dallas Stars coaching job, it's not done yet.

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Tortorella interviewed strong with the Stars. Nill is expected to spend a couple of days with Ruff before a final decision is made.


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06-20-2013, 02:23 PM
  #173
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eggs evolved hundreds of millions of years before chickens. bird eggs evolved millions of years before chickens.


bergeron should have won. toews' win is stupid, imo.

bergeron was used in more defensive roles and more often, and was still scored on less.


seems to me that toews won almost just b/c it was his turn to win. sort of like when yzerman won in 2000.



a little more about zetterberg's award:

that is probably the best award, imo.

huge respect for zetterberg
I don't care much about millionaire players' foundations (AKA Tax Shelters).

I don't have a problem with Toews as the Selke winner.

This year, in the regular season, Toews and Datsyuk went to head for some epic battles. And for the first time, I thought Toews might have gotten the best of Datsyuk.

Great two-way center on the league's best team? Never a bad choice for an award as subjective as the Selke.

Have no problem with Ovie as Hart winner, either. Dude put the team on his back in the second half.

For the Norris voting -- Subban's 12 even strength points was 35th among defensemen.
It's a tough year for Norris voting. But IMO, the best defensemen in the league are Chara and Weber


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06-20-2013, 02:51 PM
  #174
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I think the Norris winner should've been Suter. Played a ton in every situation and was excellent. I think Weber and the Predators missed him way more than they thought they would.

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06-20-2013, 05:08 PM
  #175
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I think the Norris winner should've been Suter. Played a ton in every situation and was excellent. I think Weber and the Predators missed him way more than they thought they would.
Suter deserved serious consideration, even if he only scored 4 goals or whatever.
The other guy who I think merited consideration was Beauchimen

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