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Old
06-08-2013, 07:55 AM
  #151
Vitto79
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If they didn't win the cup gartner for Anderson then mactavish for marchant, even amonte for noon an and matteau. Pissed me off lol

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06-08-2013, 09:04 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Miller was a top-6 forward and one of the best players for the Rangers down the 90-91 stretch. They had a 10-point lead on the Penguins the day of the trade, a Wales-best +47. They had no need for Kocur. They had King, Domi, Janssens and Mallette. Smith had a love affair with Kocur because he drafted him in Detroit.

After the Kocur trade, the Rangers went 2-9-1, we outscored 53-28, and lost the division to the Pens. If you count the Caps series, they were 4-13-1 after trading Miller

Kocur couldnt stay healthy, couldnt score, and played 8 mins agame. Who fought all the heavyweights? Domi did. This isnt even debatable.




Easy with the hyperbole. Kocur was easily one of the most useless forwards the rangers had over his tenure. He was hurt ALL the time. He was ineffective minus a few games in the 1992 Devils series.

He was just a terrible player as a Ranger. Good guy, good teammate, but he had zero bearing on the 1992 and 1994 President's teams.

Kocur's halcyon days were in Detroit. He stunk as a Ranger.
Miller was a good player. For 5-6 seasons he put up in the neighborhood of 45-50 points per season. Teams scored a bit more back then.

Kocur was a 'unique' player. As far as fighters went nobody hit harder than him. Check out the wikipedia entry on him.

'In an interview with Donald Brashear, Brashear described how Kocur cracked his helmet with his punches, though his helmet absorbed most of the blow, he still felt serious pain in his gums even on the other side of his face, leaving him unable to eat for a day or so.'-------we're talking Donald Brashear here who pretty much terrorized the NHL for a long time--usually among the top 2-3 fighters and a huge mother ****er.

Joe Kocur was not much of an offensive threat but he was still a guy you could give regular minutes because he was defensively responsible and often his coaches would have him out on the ice late in games to protect leads.

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06-08-2013, 09:58 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Miller was a good player. For 5-6 seasons he put up in the neighborhood of 45-50 points per season. Teams scored a bit more back then.

Kocur was a 'unique' player. As far as fighters went nobody hit harder than him. Check out the wikipedia entry on him.

'In an interview with Donald Brashear, Brashear described how Kocur cracked his helmet with his punches, though his helmet absorbed most of the blow, he still felt serious pain in his gums even on the other side of his face, leaving him unable to eat for a day or so.'-------we're talking Donald Brashear here who pretty much terrorized the NHL for a long time--usually among the top 2-3 fighters and a huge mother ****er.

Joe Kocur was not much of an offensive threat but he was still a guy you could give regular minutes because he was defensively responsible and often his coaches would have him out on the ice late in games to protect leads.
True Kocur wasn't just a goon, he had some skill and was reliable defensively, and could play rw on a checking line...go on youtube...wow...lots of ko's with that right hand

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06-08-2013, 09:10 PM
  #154
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Pittsburgh Penguins acquire
Petr Nedved
Sergei Zubov
New York Rangers acquire
Luc Robitaille
Ulf Samuelsson

Always hated this trade. I was a huuuge Zubov mark. Had his name on my first Ranger jersey when i was a kid.

My only memories of Ulf and Luc were Ulf getting KOd by Domi's sucker punch and Luc slamming his stick on the boards while the other team went down the ice and scored in that playoff game.

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06-08-2013, 09:52 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by theJUMPER View Post
Pittsburgh Penguins acquire
Petr Nedved
Sergei Zubov
New York Rangers acquire
Luc Robitaille
Ulf Samuelsson

Always hated this trade. I was a huuuge Zubov mark. Had his name on my first Ranger jersey when i was a kid.

My only memories of Ulf and Luc were Ulf getting KOd by Domi's sucker punch and Luc slamming his stick on the boards while the other team went down the ice and scored in that playoff game.
Certainly a trade that set the team back a dozen years or so.

Thanks Messier!

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06-08-2013, 10:29 PM
  #156
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Certainly a trade that set the team back a dozen years or so.

Thanks Messier!
Thanks Messier!

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Old
06-08-2013, 10:48 PM
  #157
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My only memories of Ulf and Luc were Ulf getting KOd by Domi's sucker punch and Luc slamming his stick on the boards while the other team went down the ice and scored in that playoff game.
If we have space for only one Ulf memory, it should be Ulf Samuelsson KOing Janet Gretzky.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atWtwIiXQKI

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06-08-2013, 11:06 PM
  #158
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haha forgot about that^

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Old
06-09-2013, 06:32 AM
  #159
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Kocur was the best fighter in the league until he was hurt and Probert dethroned him. Kocur shattered Brad Dalgarno's career.

Again, he was a redundant player. By the time he got to the rangers, Grimson, Domi, Probert, McRae, Miller, Berube were the real heavyweights.

Kevin Miller isnt the issue. The issue is that Smith made a critical trade that was not only unecessary, but it robbed the team of scoring depth down the stretch.

Anyone who watched the 1991 rangers knows that toughness was not a concern.

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06-09-2013, 08:20 AM
  #160
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New York Rangers traded Alexei Kovalev to the Montreal Canadiens for Jozef Balej and a 2nd round selection in 2004. Rangers could have had Plekanec instead.

The Ratelle/Park for Espo/Vadnais was awful . Ratelle & Park were much more productive & Espo's whining let to the infamous Middleton trade.

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Old
06-09-2013, 08:21 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by theJUMPER View Post
Pittsburgh Penguins acquire
Petr Nedved
Sergei Zubov
New York Rangers acquire
Luc Robitaille
Ulf Samuelsson

Always hated this trade. I was a huuuge Zubov mark. Had his name on my first Ranger jersey when i was a kid.

My only memories of Ulf and Luc were Ulf getting KOd by Domi's sucker punch and Luc slamming his stick on the boards while the other team went down the ice and scored in that playoff game.
I remember Jagr scoring a goal off of Samuelsson's face in the '96 playoffs.

That captured the essence of that trade nicely.

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Old
06-09-2013, 11:33 AM
  #162
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The Zubov trade and the Norstrom trade set them back a decade. Zubov was traded because Campbell hated him, and combined with the clutching and grabbing and his bad series against the Flyers in 1995, he was viewed as someone who would probably be out of the league or a Marc-Andre Bergeron in a few years.

I've said it on at least five different occasions on this boards; it really upset me seeing Zubov and Norstrom play together on Dallas post lockout. That was supposed to be the Rangers #1 pair in the early 2000s and probably their Captain and Alternate Captain.

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06-09-2013, 01:59 PM
  #163
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The Miller/Ridley trade to Washington made absolutely no sense to me.

I hated the Knuble for Dimaio trade.

The Walt Poddubny to Toronto for Mike Allison was a good one; the trade to send Poddubny to Quebec was a bad one.

Safe to say, for me, the Messier trade from Edmonton was the best trade the Rangers have ever made; especially in modern times. They even got Jeff Beukeboom out of that trade. They gave up Nicholls (who played 1 year in Edmonton, then was traded), Louis DeBrusk was was a fighter, Steven Rice who was a 3rd-4th line player, and David Shaw, was was a 5th-6th defenceman. They Rangers got Adam Graves that summer from the Oilers, so add all of that, you'd be hard pressed to find an offseason that helped the Rangers more than that one did.

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06-09-2013, 02:15 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by nsvoyageurs View Post
The Miller/Ridley trade to Washington made absolutely no sense to me.

I hated the Knuble for Dimaio trade.

The Walt Poddubny to Toronto for Mike Allison was a good one; the trade to send Poddubny to Quebec was a bad one.

Safe to say, for me, the Messier trade from Edmonton was the best trade the Rangers have ever made; especially in modern times. They even got Jeff Beukeboom out of that trade. They gave up Nicholls (who played 1 year in Edmonton, then was traded), Louis DeBrusk was was a fighter, Steven Rice who was a 3rd-4th line player, and David Shaw, was was a 5th-6th defenceman. They Rangers got Adam Graves that summer from the Oilers, so add all of that, you'd be hard pressed to find an offseason that helped the Rangers more than that one did.
One of the best Rangers moves was not a trade but a compensation pick. When they let Guy Lafleur walk to Quebec in the summer of 1989, those were the days before the Rangers signed big name UFAs so they were awarded a fifth round pick that turned into Sergei Zubov.

Poddubny was a great Ranger but he only had one more great season with Quebec in 1988-89. His knees started to go which was the reason he was dealt after the 1988 fiasco of a season. Rochefort wasn't very good but did an OK job for a few seasons.

The Ridley/Miller trade was a disaster but just for some background; Ted Sator barely made it through the 1985-86 season it just so happened that the team set their differences aside and played how he wanted for a few weeks and got a very hot goalie in Beezer and had matchups against some awful goalies in Philly and Washington who they exploited.

Craig Patrick wasn't retained that offseason and Espo was given the job. Sator got off to an awful start and many of those players including Ridley and Miller struggled. Carpenter was coming off knee surgery and was having disputes with the Caps. Rangers thought they were getting a perennial 30-40 goal scorer but his knees were deteriorating. He eventually redefined his career as a checker with the Bruins and later the Devils. The Rangers had a great PP back then but not much size and an awful defense. Losing Ridley and Miller hurt them at even strength.

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06-09-2013, 03:34 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by White Plains Batman View Post
One of the best Rangers moves was not a trade but a compensation pick. When they let Guy Lafleur walk to Quebec in the summer of 1989, those were the days before the Rangers signed big name UFAs so they were awarded a fifth round pick that turned into Sergei Zubov.

Poddubny was a great Ranger but he only had one more great season with Quebec in 1988-89. His knees started to go which was the reason he was dealt after the 1988 fiasco of a season. Rochefort wasn't very good but did an OK job for a few seasons.

The Ridley/Miller trade was a disaster but just for some background; Ted Sator barely made it through the 1985-86 season it just so happened that the team set their differences aside and played how he wanted for a few weeks and got a very hot goalie in Beezer and had matchups against some awful goalies in Philly and Washington who they exploited.

Craig Patrick wasn't retained that offseason and Espo was given the job. Sator got off to an awful start and many of those players including Ridley and Miller struggled. Carpenter was coming off knee surgery and was having disputes with the Caps. Rangers thought they were getting a perennial 30-40 goal scorer but his knees were deteriorating. He eventually redefined his career as a checker with the Bruins and later the Devils. The Rangers had a great PP back then but not much size and an awful defense. Losing Ridley and Miller hurt them at even strength.
Thanks for the details; I was only remembering what I thought at that time when those deals were made. If the media was then what it is today with the internet, twitter, etc., I would have known/remembered those things you mentioned! I remember Poddubny getting hurt not long after the trade; I remember Carpenter wasn't the player he had been prior to the trade; the Flyers and Capitals had lousy goaltending then, and there was some tension around Sator, but didn't know what the cause was. I didn't know the compensatory pick they got for Guy Lafleur was Sergei Zubov. The team's nickname "the smurfs" was really apropos. It was disappointing the team didn't take off from that 1986 run, but they can thank Phil Esposito for that. Plus, I'm not sure Vanbiesbrouck really ever played to the level he played in the 1986 playoffs with the Rangers until he went on that run with Florida when they went to the Stanley Cup Final in 1995-1996 (got swept by Colorado and Patrick Roy).

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06-10-2013, 01:32 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by nsvoyageurs View Post
The Miller/Ridley trade to Washington made absolutely no sense to me.

I hated the Knuble for Dimaio trade.

The Walt Poddubny to Toronto for Mike Allison was a good one; the trade to send Poddubny to Quebec was a bad one.

Safe to say, for me, the Messier trade from Edmonton was the best trade the Rangers have ever made; especially in modern times. They even got Jeff Beukeboom out of that trade. They gave up Nicholls (who played 1 year in Edmonton, then was traded), Louis DeBrusk was was a fighter, Steven Rice who was a 3rd-4th line player, and David Shaw, was was a 5th-6th defenceman. They Rangers got Adam Graves that summer from the Oilers, so add all of that, you'd be hard pressed to find an offseason that helped the Rangers more than that one did.


If you watched Rochefort play at the 1987 Canada Cup and Rendezvous, he was the complete package for a D-man. Espo thought he was getting a young Barry Beck. He was big, mean but highly skilled with the puck (when he wanted to be).

Bergeron coached him in QC and wanted to bring him along at any cost. The only issue was Rochefort's health.

Rochefort was a disaster as a Ranger.

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06-10-2013, 01:43 PM
  #167
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If you watched Rochefort play at the 1987 Canada Cup and Rendezvous, he was the complete package for a D-man. Espo thought he was getting a young Barry Beck. He was big, mean but highly skilled with the puck (when he wanted to be).

Bergeron coached him in QC and wanted to bring him along at any cost. The only issue was Rochefort's health.

Rochefort was a disaster as a Ranger.
Rochefort was 27 when he played for the Rangers. He was inconsistent those 6 years leading up to his performance in the Canada Cup/'vous. He played alongside all stars and future HOF's on that team.

NO one ever said, 'oh no we're playing the Nordiques, gotta watch out for that Rochefort !' He was banged up, overrated and over his head by the time he got to NY. He was trending downward 2 years in a row also.

Another case of being too proactive on the trade market instead of growing the team longer than 1 or 2 years ahead of time.

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06-10-2013, 02:07 PM
  #168
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Rochefort was 27 when he played for the Rangers. He was inconsistent those 6 years leading up to his performance in the Canada Cup/'vous. He played alongside all stars and future HOF's on that team.

NO one ever said, 'oh no we're playing the Nordiques, gotta watch out for that Rochefort !' He was banged up, overrated and over his head by the time he got to NY. He was trending downward 2 years in a row also.

Another case of being too proactive on the trade market instead of growing the team longer than 1 or 2 years ahead of time.
No.

Rochefort was easily one of the best stay-at-home d-men very early in his career. He was definitely a guy teams had to worry about, because he was a huge open ice hitter but he did it clean. easily the Nords' best d-man for several seasons when the Nords have a good team.

I never said I agreed with the trade, but the idea that Rochefort was not deserving of a highly regarded name at the time -- injury or no injury -- is just plain ignorant.

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06-10-2013, 02:23 PM
  #169
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No.

Rochefort was easily one of the best stay-at-home d-men very early in his career. He was definitely a guy teams had to worry about, because he was a huge open ice hitter but he did it clean. easily the Nords' best d-man for several seasons when the Nords have a good team.

I never said I agreed with the trade, but the idea that Rochefort was not deserving of a highly regarded name at the time -- injury or no injury -- is just plain ignorant.
Very early in his career. Yeah, when he was healthy, once that style of play took its toll, he went downward fast. Late twenties should have been his prime yet it was his downward spiral.

He was a physical player that didn't add much else, trading him for a #1 was stupid, too high a price for a one dimensional player, one that you get after you've already acquired your top players. Same old same old.

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06-10-2013, 03:01 PM
  #170
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Very early in his career. Yeah, when he was healthy, once that style of play took its toll, he went downward fast. Late twenties should have been his prime yet it was his downward spiral.

He was a physical player that didn't add much else, trading him for a #1 was stupid, too high a price for a one dimensional player, one that you get after you've already acquired your top players. Same old same old.
But they didn't trade a #1 for him. He was part of the Poddubny trade if memory serves me right. Poddubny had one more great year with Quebec before his knees went. Rochefort had 3 mediocre years for the Rangers. A wash?

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06-10-2013, 05:01 PM
  #171
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But they didn't trade a #1 for him. He was part of the Poddubny trade if memory serves me right. Poddubny had one more great year with Quebec before his knees went. Rochefort had 3 mediocre years for the Rangers. A wash?
You're right, 3 players and a 4th rounder. Either way, Rochefort was on the downside of his career and he was with the Rangers during the most boring teams of the 80's and 90's.

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06-10-2013, 05:51 PM
  #172
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You're right, 3 players and a 4th rounder. Either way, Rochefort was on the downside of his career and he was with the Rangers during the most boring teams of the 80's and 90's.
Ahhh man. I really liked some of the teams Rochefort played on. He was part of the 1989-90 Patrick Division champs that could've gone deeper in the playoffs if Leetch was healthy and of course he was a spare part on the 1991-92 squad.

The "bad" Rangers team of the 80s to me were the mid 80s to 1988-89. The Espo teams were pretty bad and had no direction, but finally in 88-89 they got that whole wave of youth in.

As for Sator..the tension surrounding him was that he sent Rodgers, Hanlon, Fotiu, and LaRouche to the minors and Kleisenger was his starting goalie all at the beginning of the 1985-86 season. That along with how Sator's staff was primarily college coaches and how he was only an NHL assistant for a few years didn't exactly earn the veterans respect. He also was very hard on Pavelich who left the team and was "suspended" the rest of that season, and because of that Ruotsolainen, Pavelich's best friend, held a grudge against him too.

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06-10-2013, 06:30 PM
  #173
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That trade was worse than the Park/Ratelle trade and was done to make Espo happy
Sorry, disagree.

THIS was THE WORST.
I realize some of the others were an asset for deadwood, but this was the floodgate to some of those others, and I have said many times, no sacred cows, and I stand by that, and did so even then.

But this bust, done before Espo had any power, to make Cat Francis feel like he could break this team to his will, was completely bad for us. Ratelle and Park continued their productive careers. We got limited use out of Vadnais, and Espo scored lots of goals, but was an overrated one dimensional guy, good only from the slot. Ratelle all by himself, with the best backhand in the league, was way better, in every way.

I could have understood, not necessarily agreed, but understood, if you traded like Park and Ratelle for Mikita and Hull and a D.

But the husk that was Vadnais and the hack that was Espo?

Curse you, Cat Francis. Curse you.:cr y:

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06-10-2013, 06:39 PM
  #174
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My saddest transaction, my hero, Eddie Giacomin waived to Red Wings in 76
This was also very sad, as you note, a transaction, not a trade.
Another gem by Cat Francis, trying to show he runs the show.

Yeah, you screwed us up for years, you *******!
Bite me.

Did we move this guy for a great asset? Potential? No, waiver deal. Cash.

The whole fan base rooted for DETROIT RED WINGS the entire friggin game.
Ed-die
the whole game.

Remembered by Ranger fans to this day.

Taught you, ya *******!

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06-10-2013, 09:30 PM
  #175
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Sorry, disagree.

THIS was THE WORST.
I realize some of the others were an asset for deadwood, but this was the floodgate to some of those others, and I have said many times, no sacred cows, and I stand by that, and did so even then.

But this bust, done before Espo had any power, to make Cat Francis feel like he could break this team to his will, was completely bad for us. Ratelle and Park continued their productive careers. We got limited use out of Vadnais, and Espo scored lots of goals, but was an overrated one dimensional guy, good only from the slot. Ratelle all by himself, with the best backhand in the league, was way better, in every way.

I could have understood, not necessarily agreed, but understood, if you traded like Park and Ratelle for Mikita and Hull and a D.

But the husk that was Vadnais and the hack that was Espo?

Curse you, Cat Francis. Curse you.:cr y:
I totally disagree. I think the Espo trade was a good trade for the Rangers. If you go by individual stats the trade was a disaster but the Rangers with Ratelle,Park,Hadfield,Seiling Giacomin and Gilbert had reached a point where they were not going to win a Cup and it was time for a change. Espo bridged the gap to to the younger players like the Maloneys, Duguay, Davidson, Greschner and they reached the 1979 finals led by Espo. Ratelle and Park are great players but I don,t remember then winning any Cups with Boston. It was time for a change when that trade was made. The Middleton trade killed the Rangers and gets associated the with the Espo trade which is unfair. Espo fit more into the late 70,s Rangers than Ratelle and Park would have.

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