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Trade Proposal ANA-TOR

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Old
05-25-2005, 10:55 AM
  #1
BringGilmourBack
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Trade Proposal ANA-TOR

Here it is...but keep in mind this is based on Anahiem looking at dumping salary (I remember they were looking at unloading Sykora for a pick and a prospect last year at the deadline, as he makes about $4.5 mil)

here goes.

to Ana: A.Ponikarovsky, K.Pilar, 1st round draft pick
to Tor: P.Sykora,R.Salei, T.Brent

1) Anahiem was looking at dumping salary
2) Salei was having contract problems and only signed a 1 year deal
3) Tim Brent refused to sign a low ball contract and re-entered the draft, only to be drafted again by Ana.(but he did end up signing a 3 year deal, I wonder if there is still any bad blood?)

Enjoy

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05-25-2005, 11:03 AM
  #2
ACC1224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vedder19
Here it is...but keep in mind this is based on Anahiem looking at dumping salary (I remember they were looking at unloading Sykora for a pick and a prospect last year at the deadline, as he makes about $4.5 mil)

here goes.

to Ana: A.Ponikarovsky, K.Pilar, 1st round draft pick
to Tor: P.Sykora,R.Salei, T.Brent

1) Anahiem was looking at dumping salary
2) Salei was having contract problems and only signed a 1 year deal
3) Tim Brent refused to sign a low ball contract and re-entered the draft, only to be drafted again by Ana.(but he did end up signing a 3 year deal, I wonder if there is still any bad blood?)

Enjoy
No from both sides.

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Old
05-25-2005, 11:07 AM
  #3
NFITO
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while it looks bad, in terms of on-ice value, if I'm Anahiem I take this deal.

T. Brent is worth less than the 1st rounder.

Salei is worth less than Pilar - given that Salei signed a 1 yr deal, is now 30 (31 this year), and could very easily be a UFA.

so it's basically 1st rounder + Pilar >> Brent (since Salei = 0)

so it comes down to Ponikarovsky for Sykora... as a player, the value isn't close... although given the contract, and the UFA market, I would probably pull the trigger on this, although I'd probably ask for a better asset than Ponikarovsky first (although I don't think the Leafs have too many better assets they'd move).

I still don't see Anahiem moving Sykora though... his contract is just not that bad for a guy who's playing on their top unit.

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05-25-2005, 11:20 AM
  #4
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If only Sykora was a left winger then that would be a better trade from the Leafs' standpoint.

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Old
05-25-2005, 11:30 AM
  #5
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I'm just looking for someone to play with Mats. He has never had a talented winger that can gel with him. And Salei would be nice on our back end. I'm not looking to rip anyone off, and it is tough to trade the 1st round pick, but it'll probably be a high end pick and we also get a guy like Brent back. He might be able to impress. he hasn't yet, given his AHL stats but you never know.
Cheers

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05-25-2005, 11:39 AM
  #6
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I know what you are trying to do but LW is an open position on Sundin's line right now and has traditionally been the side that has been most productive with him. Maybe it can be done via the UFA market.

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05-25-2005, 11:46 AM
  #7
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Why is Anaheim trading Sykora, again? Also, there is no need for the Leafs to trade for a player like this. There will be plenty of talent available.

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05-25-2005, 11:55 AM
  #8
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i agree. I would hate to give up a first round pick (it would be nice to have one for a change) for Sykora when there may be comparable players on the free agent market

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Old
05-25-2005, 12:02 PM
  #9
Kevin Forbes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
Why is Anaheim trading Sykora, again?
oh because he has a contract that pays over 4 million. Naturally, because the Ducks were sold to a wealthy businessman, the first thing he wants to do is purge the team of any and all talent in a huge salary dumping, because well that's what new owners do, right?
And in a year and a half Sykora'll be 30, and here at HFBoards we like to generically make up ages on when players will become UFAs (omg, he's 28?!?! he's gonna be a UFA like this year!!1111)

Sykora is one of the only offensive weapons the Ducks have, until Lupul matures more or Chistov decides to play. I like Ponikarovsky, but not that much.

Salei was awarded 2.4 million in arbitration. That was fair for his value, and I would think Anaheim would want to keep him around for at least one more season until one of Popovic, Foster or Smid fits into the lineup. Trading him now would open up a hole in the blueline, and I don't consider Pilar to be anything more then a part time performer at the NHL level.

Brent had bad advice from his agent on signing. He was re-drafted, fired his agent, signed a deal and from all accounts is more then happy with his place in the organization (Brent and Dustin Penner were the player representatives at the recent Portland Pirates news conference). He was injured for a fair part of last season, but if he stays healthy, he could be ready to challenge for an NHL spot going into the 2006-07 season.

Anaheim was looking at dumping salary to make the team more attractive to prospective buyers. Now that the team has been sold (still pending league approval, but I digress) there is no longer a need to dump salary. Samueli has only talked about plans on improving and building on the current team, which is the usual drivel, but it's all that anyone has to go by right now.

I don't see it working because I don't feel Anaheim has any desire to offload Sykora unless the deal works for them. Ponikarovsky is a third liner and Anaheim has more then enough bottom six players in the system already. Salei may be movable, but not unless Anaheim wishes to proceed with half of their blueline being freshmen.

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Old
05-25-2005, 12:09 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Forbes
oh because he has a contract that pays over 4 million. Naturally, because the Ducks were sold to a wealthy businessman, the first thing he wants to do is purge the team of any and all talent in a huge salary dumping, because well that's what new owners do, right?
And in a year and a half Sykora'll be 30, and here at HFBoards we like to generically make up ages on when players will become UFAs (omg, he's 28?!?! he's gonna be a UFA like this year!!1111)

Sykora is one of the only offensive weapons the Ducks have, until Lupul matures more or Chistov decides to play. I like Ponikarovsky, but not that much.

Salei was awarded 2.4 million in arbitration. That was fair for his value, and I would think Anaheim would want to keep him around for at least one more season until one of Popovic, Foster or Smid fits into the lineup. Trading him now would open up a hole in the blueline, and I don't consider Pilar to be anything more then a part time performer at the NHL level.

Brent had bad advice from his agent on signing. He was re-drafted, fired his agent, signed a deal and from all accounts is more then happy with his place in the organization (Brent and Dustin Penner were the player representatives at the recent Portland Pirates news conference). He was injured for a fair part of last season, but if he stays healthy, he could be ready to challenge for an NHL spot going into the 2006-07 season.

Anaheim was looking at dumping salary to make the team more attractive to prospective buyers. Now that the team has been sold (still pending league approval, but I digress) there is no longer a need to dump salary. Samueli has only talked about plans on improving and building on the current team, which is the usual drivel, but it's all that anyone has to go by right now.

I don't see it working because I don't feel Anaheim has any desire to offload Sykora unless the deal works for them. Ponikarovsky is a third liner and Anaheim has more then enough bottom six players in the system already. Salei may be movable, but not unless Anaheim wishes to proceed with half of their blueline being freshmen.

good post

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05-25-2005, 12:17 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
while it looks bad, in terms of on-ice value, if I'm Anahiem I take this deal.

T. Brent is worth less than the 1st rounder.

Salei is worth less than Pilar - given that Salei signed a 1 yr deal, is now 30 (31 this year), and could very easily be a UFA.
Pilar will be 2 months shy of 28 by the time October training camps roll around (if they roll around) and he still hasn't shown that he can even be an NHL regular. I gotta believe Ruslan Salei has more value than that on the open market - even if it's only as a rental. IMO, he's a very tough, very solid 2nd pairing defenseman and his value as a pending UFA should be around the same as Kasparitus was a few years ago - or better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
so it comes down to Ponikarovsky for Sykora... as a player, the value isn't close... although given the contract, and the UFA market, I would probably pull the trigger on this, although I'd probably ask for a better asset than Ponikarovsky first (although I don't think the Leafs have too many better assets they'd move).
Again, on the open market I think a guy like Sykora could demand a much more than a fringe NHLer.

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Old
05-25-2005, 12:43 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salzy
Pilar will be 2 months shy of 28 by the time October training camps roll around (if they roll around) and he still hasn't shown that he can even be an NHL regular. I gotta believe Ruslan Salei has more value than that on the open market - even if it's only as a rental. IMO, he's a very tough, very solid 2nd pairing defenseman and his value as a pending UFA should be around the same as Kasparitus was a few years ago - or better.



Again, on the open market I think a guy like Sykora could demand a much more than a fringe NHLer.


Well that is why a 1st round pick was thrown in.

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05-25-2005, 12:46 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vedder19
Well that is why a 1st round pick was thrown in.
That is the only thing of real value, Poni and Pilar are the throw ins.

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05-25-2005, 12:53 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACC1224
That is the only thing of real value, Poni and Pilar are the throw ins.

to each their own

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05-25-2005, 12:55 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACC1224
That is the only thing of real value, Poni and Pilar are the throw ins.
I don't know, I think that Pilar could be a top four defenceman on a lot of teams.

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05-25-2005, 12:56 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vedder19
Well that is why a 1st round pick was thrown in.
??? I was replying to the poster who said: "so it comes down to Ponikarovsky for Sykora"

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05-25-2005, 12:57 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
I don't know, I think that Pilar could be a top four defenceman on a lot of teams.
I don't know about a lot of teams maybe a couple teams. I guess everyone has their opinion, personally I think he's awful.

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05-25-2005, 12:59 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
I don't know, I think that Pilar could be a top four defenceman on a lot of teams.
A lot of AHL teams, perhaps...

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05-25-2005, 01:00 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK
I don't know, I think that Pilar could be a top four defenceman on a lot of teams.
How? He can't beat out even Aki Berg in Toronto for a top 6 spot. Jeez, the Leafs actually traded a young player to bring back Berehowsky. I don't see how you can make "top four" argument, when he's barely a number 7 in Toronto and it's not like they are deep on defense.

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05-25-2005, 01:01 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by ACC1224
I don't know about a lot of teams maybe a couple teams. I guess everyone has their opinion, personally I think he's awful.
Yeah, I'd probably agree on a couple. Heck, even Andy Delmore was a top 4 with Nashville for a little while.

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05-25-2005, 01:01 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by salzy
How? He can't beat out even Aki Berg in Toronto for a top 6 spot. Jeez, the Leafs actually traded a young player to bring back Berehowsky. I don't see how you can make "top four" argument, when he's barely a number 7 in Toronto and it's not like they are deep on defense.
I agree about Pilar but don't diss Aki, he's solid.

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05-25-2005, 01:08 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salzy
Pilar will be 2 months shy of 28 by the time October training camps roll around (if they roll around) and he still hasn't shown that he can even be an NHL regular. I gotta believe Ruslan Salei has more value than that on the open market - even if it's only as a rental. IMO, he's a very tough, very solid 2nd pairing defenseman and his value as a pending UFA should be around the same as Kasparitus was a few years ago - or better.



Again, on the open market I think a guy like Sykora could demand a much more than a fringe NHLer.
Salei's value right now is unknown. He is a 30YO going into a new CBA with no contract (1yr deal signed Aug. 2004, would expire with the lockout season).

No trades can be done before a CBA is hammered out anyways, but at that point, Salei could well be a UFA.

If he's not, he's a rental - for a year, basically, needing a $2.4mill qualifier, and that's in a UFA market that has several dmen options..

maybe Salei still has some value, but it won't be unless the CBA and the FA market favor him - neither of which looks like it will.

If he's a 1yr rental though, and there are few options left for other teams, then yes, I agree he's worth more than Pilar is... but at this point, I doubt his value is all that high at all, if anything.

Sykora's value is in the same boat... really dependant on the CBA and the FA market. Teams that can afford to add a $4mill winger to their lineup, will likley want to explore options through FA first. Since none of these costs assets (and have arguably better talent available with Palffy, Kovalev, Murray and others)... The CBA could force a situation that doesn't allow many teams to have the ability to add $4mill to their payroll at all as well, reducing the options that these top FA usually have with the biggest market teams.

For Anahiem, I don't think there should be any problems keeping Sykora. Every team can afford at least one top 6 winger making that kind of money, if not 2... and Anahiem doesn't really have anyone else that needs that salary space.

but the bottom line is that you can probably count the number of teams that need help in top 6 scoring, where Sykora is an attractive option. And I would bet that all of those teams would rather wait and see what they can do with FA before they commit to paying anything for Sykora... if Sykora was a $2mill or less player, it would be different, but he's making a reasonable salary that could make up a huge chunk of a better RW's FA salary, and with the CBA being as it is, I would bet on all teams waiting to see if they have a chance through FA first, before giving up assets for Sykora.

The reason I'd do in Anahiem of course depends on those same CBA and FA factors. The team can make a big splash under a new owner quicker this way. That's $6.4mill combined salary space the team has to use, and they continue to add depth to their futures. I'm not sure what the 7th current dman situation is like in Anahiem, but Pilar could fit in there... Ponikarovsky could fit into the bottom 6... the salaries of both these guys combined take up less than the current average player salary - and having 2 of 23 roster spots filled with low salary players, gives a team more flexibility to spend on the top 6...

With quite a lot of young first contract types in the lineup, along with Fedorov and Gigeure's salary, they could have enough salary space to add a couple of top 6 wingers and a top 4 dman (replacing Salei), to upgrade their team. Dropping Prospal's contract gives them that much more room. After that, it's really what the CBA will allow.

Definitely a risk play... but I'd take that risk considering how deep the FA market should be, and the advantage of a new owner going to a struggling team, where mass changes won't hurt fan support (especially if some big names are brought in)...

Palffy is a guy I'd target - and getting to play with Fedorov, and still remain in the LA area where he's played for so many years, might be inticing enough to Palffy... Bringing Kariya back could also go a long way towards franchise stability - but this depends on if the relationship could be mended (with a new owner, I don't see why not??).... even offering Selanne a contract could be a solid move for them, since Selanne seems to have healed and sounds like he's committed to the NHL. Given his recent performances, he might sign for well below market value.

I guess under new ownership, the chance to drop that much in salary, to go into an attractive FA market, when you have a team that hasn't really gelled or played well recently anyways - is why I'd make that trade.... Sykora is a nice player, but if you could replace him with Palffy, Murray, Demitra, Kovalev, then I doubt the team misses Sykora much.

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Old
05-25-2005, 01:10 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salzy
Pilar will be 2 months shy of 28 by the time October training camps roll around (if they roll around) and he still hasn't shown that he can even be an NHL regular. I gotta believe Ruslan Salei has more value than that on the open market - even if it's only as a rental. IMO, he's a very tough, very solid 2nd pairing defenseman and his value as a pending UFA should be around the same as Kasparitus was a few years ago - or better.



Again, on the open market I think a guy like Sykora could demand a much more than a fringe NHLer.
Id also say that on the new open UFA market, you will be able to get a better player than Sykora for $4mil. It would be smart to deal him from the Ducks POV.

Giving up Salei is too much though. He is a good defenseman for his price, and I dont think he would be getting more than a small raise when he becomes a UFA given the new economic system. So the Ducks might as well keep him since his trade value isnt very high anyways due to all the available talent.

Anaheim isnt getting much more than a late first rounder out of this deal, so why not cut the crap and deal Sykora for the 1st straight up?


Last edited by salty justice: 05-25-2005 at 01:21 PM.
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Old
05-25-2005, 01:18 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by salzy
How? He can't beat out even Aki Berg in Toronto for a top 6 spot. Jeez, the Leafs actually traded a young player to bring back Berehowsky. I don't see how you can make "top four" argument, when he's barely a number 7 in Toronto and it's not like they are deep on defense.
2003-04 was sort of a lost season for Pilar because of recovery from the heart virus but last season he was a top defenceman for the second place team in the Czech league.

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05-25-2005, 01:20 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Forbes
I don't see it working because I don't feel Anaheim has any desire to offload Sykora unless the deal works for them. Ponikarovsky is a third liner and Anaheim has more then enough bottom six players in the system already. Salei may be movable, but not unless Anaheim wishes to proceed with half of their blueline being freshmen.
I agree. Sykora is our top RW and until the young guys develop there is no one who will pick up the goal scoring slack. Defense would look down right ugly if they trade Salei. Ponikarovsky wouldn't add much to the team than what we already have. 1st rounder is nice, but isn't enough to make me want the Ducks to do this deal.

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