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2013 Offseason Thread Part IV: Streit's rights to PHI for 2014 4th Rounder

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06-07-2013, 04:42 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Thats a legitimate gripe.

The whole situation is a microcosm of a Sather-run operation. Things getting done half-assed.
Pretty much.

All of these arguments seem to end with "yup, Sather sucks".

Cannot wait until he's gone. We shall throw a feast when that day comes.

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06-07-2013, 04:43 PM
  #227
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I watched him play a bit at BC. All the scouting reports raved about his physical attributes.

As an NHL'er, I see a kid who has those physical tools, but lacks on the hockey IQ department. The game was simply moving too fast for him all season.

(cue the "so you think hes a bust" crap..)
I don't think it was moving too fast, I think he was overthinking everything trying not to make any mistakes.

He did the same thing in college as a freshman early on.

Offensively if he lets himself play, he is fine. His instincts are good. He just needs to trust himself and play through some of the bumps in the road.

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06-07-2013, 04:43 PM
  #228
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Its funny, now Kreider all of a sudden isnt part of the future going forward, but last year almost NO ONE would move him for RICK NASH... comical stuff. Hate to tell you if Kreider isnt part of the core, we should have moved him along with Dubi and kept Anisimov (perfect 3c).
With hindsight, probably, yeah.

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06-07-2013, 04:43 PM
  #229
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I think we will see ALOT more effort from the Rangers next season. Will it result in more goals? who knows, but they will generate more scoring chances IMO.. They didn't show the effort for the most part because they were DONE with Torts, they no longer wanted to play for him anymore. If a coach loses the team, the first thing that usually goes is effort, hell even Nash did so at times towards the end.

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06-07-2013, 04:44 PM
  #230
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why is Girardi part of the "core" going forward? because he's our only RHD? The "core" going forward IMO is Nash, Hank, Mcdonagh, and Stepan, ANYONE else can be available.
Girardi is part of the core because he logs the most minutes on this team and does a good job in a shutdown role.

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06-07-2013, 04:45 PM
  #231
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Don't forget the Corsi.

Kreider has shown flashes, which is typical with a young player. Especially one put in an awkward situation by a coach. I agree with the fact that he didn't show enough to warrant more minutes under Torts based on how Torts ran the team though.

A new coach? Well he might loosen the grip a little and live through some of those deficiencies.

Funny, I think it was game 3 or 4 against Boston, probably four because it was his best game where he absolutely blew by everyone on the ice and I thought to myself it was the first time he used his speed like that all season.
Because he got out of his own head. Pierre was saying the same things. With a kid like that, you let him do his thing and try to teach as you go. He will make mistakes but his ceiling is so high that you don't want to hold him back and turn him into a shot blocking defensive forward. That will never be his game.

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06-07-2013, 04:45 PM
  #232
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Girardi is part of the core because he logs the most minutes on this team and does a good job in a shutdown role.
He's a UFA who will be seeking 5M so there is no guarantee we keep him.

and I could have sworn this board was full of Girardi is overrated posts.

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06-07-2013, 04:46 PM
  #233
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With hindsight, probably, yeah.
Wait until Anisimov's next contract or until he suffers another injury from having his head down while carrying the puck.

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06-07-2013, 04:47 PM
  #234
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I do think that Kreider looked overwhelmed at times during the beginning of the regular season.

I think that he looked his best with Callahan and Miller, and then he had a small stretch where he played well, but was still demoted to the fourth line after doing so. It's ass backwards development. What kind of message does that send?

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06-07-2013, 04:47 PM
  #235
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If some people don't feel Krieder is part of the core, or at the very least the youth development plan, then they really have no business spouting nonsense about "not signing Lundqvist, rebuilding plans, etc.

seems like the bar for some is if they aren't first round/top three overalls they're busts.
lol no one is saying they're busts. I just don't consider Kreider a core piece. That spot should be reserved for great NHL players or elite prospects. Kreider is neither of those. Neither is JT Miller or Brady Skjei. You don't see the latter two listed as untouchbles or core peices. Nor should they be.

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06-07-2013, 04:48 PM
  #236
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Because he got out of his own head. Pierre was saying the same things. With a kid like that, you let him do his thing and try to teach as you go. He will make mistakes but his ceiling is so high that you don't want to hold him back and turn him into a shot blocking defensive forward. That will never be his game.
Which I am totally fine with, it just wasn't going to happen under Torts. You can't pump a kid up as being this grade A prospect who you think the world of and then have your coach treat him like that. I don't feel sorry for him, he should have adapted a bit and tried a little harder to work his way up the lineup but it is what it is. Don't think it stifled him at all honestly, think he'll come in next year rearing to go and prove to a new coach that he doesn't belong on the 4th line.

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06-07-2013, 04:48 PM
  #237
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I believe this season will be telling for guys like Kreider (how he develops), Staal (his eye injury), and Callahan (what he gets next contract), and possibly Richards (if not bought out)

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06-07-2013, 04:49 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I believe this season will be telling for guys like Kreider (how he develops), Staal (his eye injury), and Callahan (what he gets next contract), and possibly Richards (if not bought out)
I think next season is huge for Del Zotto if he is here, Moore and Stralman as well.

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06-07-2013, 04:49 PM
  #239
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I don't think it was moving too fast, I think he was overthinking everything trying not to make any mistakes.

He did the same thing in college as a freshman early on.

Offensively if he lets himself play, he is fine. His instincts are good. He just needs to trust himself and play through some of the bumps in the road.
Pardon me, I meant I think the game was moving too fast for him to process. Call it overthinking if you want.

Ive got two questions. Considering he played better later on in a shortened season, does Tortorella get any credit for that?

Perhaps more importantly, if Torts' system is so "stone-age" consisting of dump and chase/collapsing down low, then what the hell was there to think about?

Theres no excuse out there to defend Kreider's passive play during the regular season.

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06-07-2013, 04:49 PM
  #240
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I can tolerate a rebuild, I just don't see much upside from Kreider based on his previous production pedigree in college, AHL and this NHL season.
Amateur

Krieder scored a goal in the 2010 NCAA title game in which Boston College defeated the University of Wisconsin to win the national title and was named to the 2010 Hockey East All-Rookie Tea. He also scored six goals for the gold medal winning US Word JR Championship team in 2010. Kreider was chosen to represent the United States once again at the2011 World Junior Ice Hockey Championships , and led the team with four goals in six games as the USA won the bronze medal. Two of his goals were scored in the bronze medal game, and he was named the USA's best player for that game. Kreider's ten goals in WJC play ties him with*John LeClair *and*Mike Modano *for third all time among USA players, behind just*Jeremy Roenick 's 13 and*Brian Gionta 11's

Kreider was named Most Valuable Player of the 2011*Beanpot Tournament , as Boston College won the tournament for the second straight time. Kreider was also selected to the United States National team to compete in the 2011 IIHF World Men's Ice Hockey Championship held in Slovakia. In 2011-12, he won a second NCAA title with Boston College, and led the team in scoring with 23 goals and 45 points in 44 games. *Kreider's 23 goals were 2nd overall in Hockey East and tied for 8th in the*NCAA and his 45 points were 5th in Hockey East and tied for 19th in the NCAA. He also tied for the Hockey East lead in*game-winning goals , with 5,*short handed goals *with 3 and short handed points with 5. *He also finished in the top 10 in Hockey East with 7*power play goals*and 17 power play points.

Pro

On April 10, 2012, Kreider signed a three-year entry level contract with the Rangers. *Kreider joined the Rangers the following day for practice, and was eligible to participate in the 2012*Stanley Cup *He made his NHL debut for the Rangers in a playoff game against the*Ottawa Senators *on April 16, 2012. *He scored his first NHL goal in game 6 against the*Ottawa Senators *on April 23, 2012 on an assist from former WJC gold medal teammate*Derek Stepan , which proved to be the game-winning goal.[ His second NHL goal was also a playoff game-winning goal, against the*Washington Capitals on April 28, 2012, making him the first player in NHL history whose first two goals were playoff game winners.[ He ended the 2012 playoffs with five goals, an NHL record for most playoff goals before playing his first regular season game. *The prior record of four such goals was held by*Eddie Mazur , and the prior record of three goals in a single postseason prior to playing a regular season game was held byGeorge McPhee *and*Ray Cote

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06-07-2013, 04:49 PM
  #241
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lol no one is saying they're busts. I just don't consider Kreider a core piece. That spot should be reserved for great NHL players or elite prospects. Kreider is neither of those. Neither is JT Miller or Brady Skjei. You don't see the latter two listed as untouchbles or core peices. Nor should they be.
I agree wit this Kersh... If you're an "untouchable" (outside of serious overpayment), then you're part of the "core". which is why I think Nash, Hank, Mcdonagh and Stepan are the ONLY true members who fit that group. The others could be had in the right deal.

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06-07-2013, 04:51 PM
  #242
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I think next season is huge for Del Zotto if he is here, Moore and Stralman as well.
totally forgot about Del Zotto.

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06-07-2013, 04:52 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Pardon me, I meant I think the game was moving too fast for him to process. Call it overthinking if you want.

Ive got two questions. Considering he played better later on in a shortened season, does Tortorella get any credit for that?

Perhaps more importantly, if Torts' system is so "stone-age" consisting of dump and chase/collapsing down low, then what the hell was there to think about?

Theres no excuse out there to defend Kreider's passive play during the regular season.
unfortunately alot of players played passive (including the playoffs). how much of it was they were done with Tortorella?

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06-07-2013, 04:52 PM
  #244
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He's a UFA who will be seeking 5M so there is no guarantee we keep him.

and I could have sworn this board was full of Girardi is overrated posts.
Girardi is worth well above 5 million with his history of playing tough minutes.

Girardi was considered overrated on here since he's an annual scapegoat. Not sure why. He is pretty much the epitome of a heart and soul player.

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06-07-2013, 04:52 PM
  #245
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I agree wit this Kersh... If you're an "untouchable" (outside of serious overpayment), then you're part of the "core". which is why I think Nash, Hank, Mcdonagh and Stepan are the ONLY true members who fit that group. The others could be had in the right deal.
I don't look at the core of a team as "players that won't be traded". That's an odd way of looking at it. Anyone could be traded. I look at the core as players that will/should contribute to the team's success moving forward. Players like Girardi, Callahan, and Staal. They "could" be traded, but, so can anyone.

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06-07-2013, 04:55 PM
  #246
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Girardi is worth well above 5 million with his history of playing tough minutes.

Girardi was considered overrated on here since he's an annual scapegoat. Not sure why. He is pretty much the epitome of a heart and soul player.
heart and soul only take you so much. Girardi doesnt have enough offense to justify paying him 5M per season, and its not likely to increase anytime soon.

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06-07-2013, 04:55 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Pardon me, I meant I think the game was moving too fast for him to process. Call it overthinking if you want.

Ive got two questions. Considering he played better later on in a shortened season, does Tortorella get any credit for that?

Perhaps more importantly, if Torts' system is so "stone-age" consisting of dump and chase/collapsing down low, then what the hell was there to think about?

Theres no excuse out there to defend Kreider's passive play during the regular season.
This teams defense seemed to be complicated to Kreider, for whatever reason.

Of course he gets credit for that, he was the coach. Although, was it Torts, or Gernander who had him playing well?

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06-07-2013, 04:56 PM
  #248
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I don't look at the core of a team as "players that won't be traded". That's an odd way of looking at it. Anyone could be traded. I look at the core as players that will/should contribute to the team's success moving forward. Players like Girardi, Callahan, and Staal. They "could" be traded, but, so can anyone.
that's a very good explanation as anyone could be traded. there is no untouchable player.

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06-07-2013, 04:57 PM
  #249
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Wait until Anisimov's next contract or until he suffers another injury from having his head down while carrying the puck.
Or wait as Anisimov's goal scoring prowess continues to increase on a year-to-year basis. I don't expect him to be a world-beater, but he's a pretty damn good player and the type that the pundits are wanting. Puck possession hockey player. He is a much better player than Kreider and was also the Rangers top prospect at one point.

"Boyle sucks at 3C, we need a more skilled 3C"

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06-07-2013, 04:57 PM
  #250
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To me:

"Core" pieces, or players that the team will build around:

Nash, Stepan, McDonagh, Staal, Callahan, Lundqvist, Brassard (perhaps premature, but his performance down the stretch and in the playoffs was really incredible; either way, I think the team plans to build around him, and that's what I'm listing him here)

Complimentary players to supplement the core:

One of Girardi or Del Zotto, Kreider, Miller, Hagelin, Stralman, Moore, Zuccarello (a couple of these players could transition to "core" based on their performance over the next few years)

Role players:

Boyle and Dorsett

The rest of the players on the team aren't worthy of mention, although I like how Pyatt played in the playoffs.

***

Would like to see a piece added to current core, at wing; perhaps Kreider can become that player. Hopefully, DZ or Girardi can be moved for a player who could cross over into that category (preferably DZ).

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