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2013 Offseason Thread Part IV: Streit's rights to PHI for 2014 4th Rounder

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06-12-2013, 03:54 PM
  #976
Juban912
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Just some speculation here...but if the Flyers buy out Briere, do we want him in blue (for the right price of course)? If we could get him for no more than 3 mil/year, I see that as a good move for a player with 109 points in 108 playoff games.

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06-12-2013, 04:00 PM
  #977
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Briere is a good player for the right price, but the bully police here will say hes too small and doesnt punch people so he sucks

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06-12-2013, 04:00 PM
  #978
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So, ya wanna start with that
It's true. We're not Glen Sather. Not even if we combined our powers.

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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Irrelevant. We must improve overall assets, both quantity and quality.
It this was a fine tuned machine ready to rock n roll, and moving someone screwed up the balance, I could see your point. We are NO WHERE near there.
You don't build a team by just collecting a bunch of assets. In your world, trading anyone over 25 for picks and prospects will ultimately lead to a Cup. Look at what a crappy team Edmonton is despite all their sexy high-end forwards.

And maybe you forgot, but this team finished second in the league the previous season. Playoff team this year that advanced to the second round. NO WHERE near?

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We don't need a total blowup in the sense that our best guys aren't worth keeping.
But we need a complete restart and we may have to move our best guys to either facilitate or offset other moves needed to improve.
Yea. Trade everyone over 25 for a ton of picks and prospects, and hopefully they can all develop at the same time, same pace, and explode on their ELC's while we win the Cup over and over.

If only it were that ****ing easy, Bern.

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We need to move value for younger value with less cap, preferably ELCs.
That is the best overall plan.
We're one of the youngest teams in the league. And you want to rebuild. Why aren't you advocating we move Lundqvist, then? That's step 1 in your rebuild.

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Any of those guys would have looked good in Rangers jersey.
Wrong.

Those guys would look good in ANY jersey. And that's why it's damn near impossible to acquire them.

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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
At least I vigorously make a creative effort to improve this team.
You would rather we lose with the same old same old than think outside the box.
Instead of flaunting your, uh, creative thinking, you should strive to make realistic proposals instead. With a lot less words. And less coke/pepsi analogies.

You value potential more than production.

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Hey BB. Dare to dream. Just a little.
Dream? Sure.

Fantasize? No.

There's a difference.

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Gutting the club is irrelevant.
Relevant is bottom line overall improvement.
The problem with that logic Bern, is you can't guarantee improvement with your scenario's you fantasize about. The bottom line could very well result in less than we have now.

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Kinda otherway around, more like patching up smaller multiple holes, leaving one big one.
No, you're filling one hole and creating multiple ones. Not the way you tried to spin it.


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I do not recant.
Kreider has looked good both times the shackles were taken off.
He will be fine now going forward.
He is WAY more gifted than Stepan, except atm, as to hockey IQ + experience.
Says it all. Kreider is more valuable than Stepan. And more gifted.

Bern, here are 2 guarantee's from me.

1). Kreider will never more valuable than Stepan.
2). Kreider will never outproduce Stepan.

Bookmark that ****.

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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Acceptable IF the counterplay, the return was worth it and more.
This is a point you conveniently forget to bring up.
The return can be as grand as you'd like. No NHL team would win a Cup with that blue-line.

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06-12-2013, 04:09 PM
  #979
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What good is Briere if he is going to be injured for 80% of the season?

Id jump on him in a heartbeat if he was healthy, but hes not, he's an injury prone mess which is why Philly wants to get rid of him.

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06-12-2013, 04:15 PM
  #980
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We also need to add more size to our top-six. How many times were we hemmed in our zone for half a period, maybe more? Briere's not my first choice. If Lecavalier gets bought out, I'd give him a look.

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06-12-2013, 04:21 PM
  #981
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What I find baffling is the attraction people have towards Burmistov. He played on ATL/WPG, never cracked the top two lines as a center, nor a winger, never posted .5 PPG, never proved to be a part of a top PP or PK, couldn't stay on the top two lines as a winger.

But he's got sick hands. Sounds like a younger Wolski to me, except more unproven, and a sure fire KHL risk, and a 21 yearold who has publicly demanded a trade.

You trade assets for proven scorers or guys that fill needs, so someone tell me why the fan base is so ardent on his acquisition.
Look Burmistrov and Wolski have nothing in common.

I saw HFD play St John earlier this year. Burmistrov was by far the best player on the ice. He is the same age as McIlrath and played 44 games in the NHL this season.

Burmistrov is a playmaker. He sets up shop. Think Backstrom/Datsyuk in terms of style. He is really talented. But he definitely have consistency issues. Otherwise he would be just as valuble as RNH.

I am not sold on dealing MDZ. Look at what Philly is doing with Streit and Dallas with Gonchar. Teams put tremendous value in PMDs. We have a logjam at LD. 4 guys who can play. We are really short on puck moving ability from back there, but MDZ still ends up in a smaller role due to competition.

What do you do?

I would only deal MDZ if we can acquire a right PMD...

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06-12-2013, 04:21 PM
  #982
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What good is Briere if he is going to be injured for 80% of the season?

Id jump on him in a heartbeat if he was healthy, but hes not, he's an injury prone mess which is why Philly wants to get rid of him.
80% of the season, hey? Seems like an aggressive estimate.

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06-12-2013, 04:22 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
It's true. We're not Glen Sather. Not even if we combined our powers.

The return can be as grand as you'd like. No NHL team would win a Cup with that blue-line.
I agreed with most of your post and I disagree with bern's opinions a lot, but Tampa did get to the ECF with an embarassing defense and goaltending. With Hank in net, we can afford to focus a little more on offense.

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06-12-2013, 04:23 PM
  #984
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We also need to add more size to our top-six. How many times were we hemmed in our zone for half a period, maybe more? Briere's not my first choice. If Lecavalier gets bought out, I'd give him a look.
Need more size AND skill in the top 6 IMO. Problem is a player with both of those tends to cost a fair bit. Rangers will have to settle for one or the other unless they want to part with something valuable

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06-12-2013, 04:25 PM
  #985
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I don't get certain referrals, but if they are made to stuff that is illegal they shouldn't be made (coke machine?).

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06-12-2013, 04:26 PM
  #986
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We also need to add more size to our top-six. How many times were we hemmed in our zone for half a period, maybe more? Briere's not my first choice. If Lecavalier gets bought out, I'd give him a look.
Lecavalier's going to prevent us from getting hemmed in our own zone? Did I read that correctly?

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80% of the season, hey? Seems like an aggressive estimate.
80% of the time he's injured every time.

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06-12-2013, 04:26 PM
  #987
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How many times were we hemmed in our zone for half a period, maybe more?
That wasn't because of a lack of size. That was because we collapsed too much in the defensive zone and every time the puck went around the boards, we had no chance of winning the race to it. Often, players wouldn't even try because they knew they wouldn't win the race. They just maintained their defensive position and waited for the next chance. The defense was far too passive.

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06-12-2013, 04:29 PM
  #988
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Oh please. I could dig up just as many posts about dozens of other players from "informed" posters. Hell, I could dig up that many posts from the geniuses around here when talking about Kreider or McIlrath.

Reclamation project to see if we can end up with a semi-skilled bottom-six forward for next to nothing. Lunacy! Pure lunacy!
But Beach has been struggling to find his game in the AHL, has attitude problems and is injury prone. I think he is getting this reputation as having hidden potential due to his high draft status. He was even scratched earlier this year in the AHL for inconsistent play. IMO he is no good as Mashinter right now.

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06-12-2013, 04:34 PM
  #989
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I agreed with most of your post and I disagree with bern's opinions a lot, but Tampa did get to the ECF with an embarassing defense and goaltending. With Hank in net, we can afford to focus a little more on offense.
Khabibulin was terrific during their run. And their defense was anything but embarrassing.

But, replicating a teams success from almost a decade ago, with different rules in place, doesn't sound like a recipe for success.

It kind of reminds me how some people here compare our line-up to the '94 team.

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06-12-2013, 04:35 PM
  #990
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He's 23. Would you like to know what my attitude and work-ethic was at that age?
That is totally irrelevant to this discussion and frankly, I'm not sure why it was brought up in the first place. There should obviously be different standards held between a professional hockey player and a poster on HFBoards. Besides, 23 years old and no NHL experience along with a mediocre track record in the AHL, what's to like about his game?

Beach has been known for his attitude problem since his draft year, which caused him to drop in the first place. And there is nothing to suggest he's changed in professional hockey. Bad attitude is a huge flag to any player.

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He would cost very little as far as assets go. He has tremendous upside. It's a low risk option.
Where is the tremendous upside? He's been a mediocre point producer in professional hockey, always being passed by superior prospects in the Hawks system.

Quote:
Would you like me to dig up some of your very own quotes since your debut on this board, Kershaw. . . . . . . ?
Sure, but I am not sure how that is relevant to the topic at hand.

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06-12-2013, 04:56 PM
  #991
Brian Boyle
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
80% of the time he's injured every time.
Because I like to put (real) numbers on everything:

Last season, Briere played in 70.8% of the games.
In the past 2 seasons, Briere played in 80.0% of the games.
In the past 3 seasons, Briere played in 85.4% of the games.
In the past 4 seasons, Briere played in 87.1% of the games.
In the past 5 seasons, Briere played in 75.8% of the games.
In the past 6 seasons, Briere played in 79.5% of the games.

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06-12-2013, 05:04 PM
  #992
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That is totally irrelevant to this discussion and frankly, I'm not sure why it was brought up in the first place. There should obviously be different standards held between a professional hockey player and a poster on HFBoards. Besides, 23 years old and no NHL experience along with a mediocre track record in the AHL, what's to like about his game?
A 23 year old is a 23 year old, no matter how the hell you slice it. Just a young, dumb kid who's on the cusp of becoming a man. No offense to anyone under 23~

Some people bloom later than others, Kershaw.

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Beach has been known for his attitude problem since his draft year, which caused him to drop in the first place. And there is nothing to suggest he's changed in professional hockey. Bad attitude is a huge flag to any player.
Attitude problems can be contained.

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Where is the tremendous upside? He's been a mediocre point producer in professional hockey, always being passed by superior prospects in the Hawks system.
Where's the upside? You obviously didn't watch him in everett. His combination of strength and skill was very obvious. There are aspects of this game that you can't teach. You have it or you don't.

He's had 2 full season's in Rockford. Previous season cut short. His production hasn't been impressive one bit in his professional career thus far, but I don't recall there being some edict from god that says it's impossible for him to turn it around.

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Sure, but I am not sure how that is relevant to the topic at hand.
You found me random quotes about Beach from Hawk fans to try and justify why we shouldn't explore kicking tires on a player who has upside (whether you've seen it or not) and might be available for very little as far as assets go.

I'm glad Sather didn't follow your logic with Stralman. You know, because, some Columbus fans and Leafs fans said he was complete and utter crap.

There have been countless athletes in professional sports who developed late. Or helped their teams despite having an attitude problems.

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06-12-2013, 05:10 PM
  #993
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Because I like to put (real) numbers on everything:

Last season, Briere played in 70.8% of the games.
In the past 2 seasons, Briere played in 80.0% of the games.
In the past 3 seasons, Briere played in 85.4% of the games.
In the past 4 seasons, Briere played in 87.1% of the games.
In the past 5 seasons, Briere played in 75.8% of the games.
In the past 6 seasons, Briere played in 79.5% of the games.
Can't believe you of all people missed that layup. You win some fancy award and neglect your true purpose on this message board.

Get your **** together, 31. Or you're getting traded with Boyle in a few weeks.

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06-12-2013, 05:46 PM
  #994
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I would take Briere at the right price/term

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06-12-2013, 05:52 PM
  #995
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It's true. We're not Glen Sather. Not even if we combined our powers.



You don't build a team by just collecting a bunch of assets. In your world, trading anyone over 25 for picks and prospects will ultimately lead to a Cup. Look at what a crappy team Edmonton is despite all their sexy high-end forwards.

And maybe you forgot, but this team finished second in the league the previous season. Playoff team this year that advanced to the second round. NO WHERE near?



Yea. Trade everyone over 25 for a ton of picks and prospects, and hopefully they can all develop at the same time, same pace, and explode on their ELC's while we win the Cup over and over.

If only it were that ****ing easy, Bern.



We're one of the youngest teams in the league. And you want to rebuild. Why aren't you advocating we move Lundqvist, then? That's step 1 in your rebuild.



Wrong.

Those guys would look good in ANY jersey. And that's why it's damn near impossible to acquire them.



Instead of flaunting your, uh, creative thinking, you should strive to make realistic proposals instead. With a lot less words. And less coke/pepsi analogies.

You value potential more than production.



Dream? Sure.

Fantasize? No.

There's a difference.



The problem with that logic Bern, is you can't guarantee improvement with your scenario's you fantasize about. The bottom line could very well result in less than we have now.



No, you're filling one hole and creating multiple ones. Not the way you tried to spin it.




Says it all. Kreider is more valuable than Stepan. And more gifted.

Bern, here are 2 guarantee's from me.

1). Kreider will never more valuable than Stepan.
2). Kreider will never outproduce Stepan.

Bookmark that ****.



The return can be as grand as you'd like. No NHL team would win a Cup with that blue-line.
I'm sure I won't get to answer this fully before the thread is closed due to count.
So I will say thank you, but agree to disagree, and this will have to hold over til the next time on the next thread. However... as to

Quote:
Why aren't you advocating we move Lundqvist, then? That's step 1 in your rebuild.
I would appreciate you not blurring the lines by insinuating something I did not say.

Your quote to be accurate should have been:
"One would think" that's step 1 ....etc.

I have said anybody can be moved if the price is right, and that includes Lundqvist. But the price for him, obviously, is more than most can/will pay.

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06-12-2013, 06:51 PM
  #996
Kris Chreider
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Khabibulin was terrific during their run. And their defense was anything but embarrassing.

But, replicating a teams success from almost a decade ago, with different rules in place, doesn't sound like a recipe for success.

It kind of reminds me how some people here compare our line-up to the '94 team.
I meant 2011 Lightning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider
I agreed with most of your post and I disagree with bern's opinions a lot, but Tampa did get to the ECF with an embarassing defense and goaltending. With Hank in net, we can afford to focus a little more on offense.
Put Hank on that squad and they make the Finals, easy.

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06-12-2013, 07:07 PM
  #997
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I meant 2011 Lightning.



Put Hank on that squad and they make the Finals, easy.
They did that because they had Stamkos, Lecavalier, and St. Louis. We have Nash and... Nash.

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06-12-2013, 07:15 PM
  #998
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What good is Briere if he is going to be injured for 80% of the season?

Id jump on him in a heartbeat if he was healthy, but hes not, he's an injury prone mess which is why Philly wants to get rid of him.
negative, its bc his production is declining and he's signed for a few more years...

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06-12-2013, 07:17 PM
  #999
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Because I like to put (real) numbers on everything:

Last season, Briere played in 70.8% of the games.
In the past 2 seasons, Briere played in 80.0% of the games.
In the past 3 seasons, Briere played in 85.4% of the games.
In the past 4 seasons, Briere played in 87.1% of the games.
In the past 5 seasons, Briere played in 75.8% of the games.
In the past 6 seasons, Briere played in 79.5% of the games.
So hes missing 1 out of every 5 games. Thats pretty horrible.

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06-12-2013, 07:23 PM
  #1000
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another very smart move by the Islanders...getting a 4th rounder for a guy who wasn't coming back is brilliant.

They have stock pilled a ton of talent and will continue to do so...the De Haan pick was a mistake when you look who was selected after him and the Nino pick maybe wasn't as good either but they have found very good value in the later rounds who are starting to push for roster spots on their team...

Team Depth Chart of NHL Prospects




Strengths
Depth at Center
Toughness
Deep and diverse group of defensemen


I will be like the 80's all over again...when they made us their *****es...but most of you were still peeing on yourself to know that...


But let's get Briere and Marc Andre Bergeron.

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