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2013 Offseason Thread Part IV: Streit's rights to PHI for 2014 4th Rounder

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06-07-2013, 02:38 PM
  #176
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Kreider had some developing to do this season.
But are you saying he is a bust?
Haha, no. You can criticize a player's performance without declaring him a bust.

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06-07-2013, 02:40 PM
  #177
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Haha, no. You can criticize a player's performance without declaring him a bust.
You can????

But isnt it so much easier to blame it on the coach?

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06-07-2013, 02:40 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Haha, no. You can criticize a player's performance without declaring him a bust.
So are you expecting him to develop and be better next season or bust?

Either he will develop and help the team next season or he will bust, it's one or the other.

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06-07-2013, 02:42 PM
  #179
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Haha, no. You can criticize a player's performance without declaring him a bust.
You can criticize all you want, but to say he is not part of the future is something entirely different.

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06-07-2013, 02:42 PM
  #180
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What did Boston do with Kessel? They traded him for futures. Some people scoff at the mere mention of trading DZ for futures. Boston was a team which was upset in the 2009 playoffs by the Canes. Kessel wanted too much money and the Bruins were probably sick of him. They were still a good team in 2010. They blew a 3-0 to Philly. Freak loss. Boston won the Cup in 2011. Seguin didn't play much that first year. He had some great games in the TB series. Seguin is bigger part of the team now. Hamilton is in his first year. Growing pains. Boston didn't look at it at as Stanley Cup in the next few years or bust so we can't trade Kessel in 2009. They lost to the Caps in 2012. They didn't freak out and fire the coach. Trade away half the team. Now they're one win away from reaching the Cup finals.

Chicago is also one win away from reaching the Cup finals. Shaw. Saad. Kruger. Bolland. Frolik. Stalberg. The latter two were acquired in trades. No free agents.

Both teams have experienced professional coaches. Not on the job training. The Hawks already went the legend route with Savard and replaced him with Quenneville.
If you could guarantee me a 2nd overall pick and another top 10 for Del Zotto, im in. I just don't think were in a position to take a risk by trading someone like MDZ or Staal for picks, especially with Lundqvist becoming a UFA after next season. Boston also had depth on the wings to wait where we dont really have that luxury. I get the point your trying to make though.

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06-07-2013, 02:42 PM
  #181
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I don't see how Chris Kreider, a non-NHLer is a core piece on this team, but to each one's own.
we'll he's no first overall pick that's for sure...

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06-07-2013, 02:43 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
So are you expecting him to develop and be better next season or bust?

Either he will develop and help the team next season or he will bust, it's one or the other.
There's a possibility he will be a bust. There's a possibility he will develop at a rapid pace from this point on. I don't pretend to have his future all mapped out.

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06-07-2013, 02:44 PM
  #183
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for the love of god no........that's just not funny. But nope I'm new lol, I hope this guy you thought I was isn't that horrible.

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06-07-2013, 02:44 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Miz View Post
If you could guarantee me a 2nd overall pick and another top 10 for Del Zotto, im in. I just don't think were in a position to take a risk by trading someone like MDZ or Staal for picks, especially with Lundqvist becoming a UFA after next season. Boston also had depth on the wings to wait where we dont really have that luxury. I get the point your trying to make though.
I am sick of this Hank talk. The guy is a part of this team. If they are going to be held captive by 1 player that's sad. If they do their jobs and secure a good future for this organization, it will take care of itself. If Hank doesn't see that, then it doesn't matter.

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06-07-2013, 02:44 PM
  #185
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You can criticize all you want, but to say he is not part of the future is something entirely different.
And who said that and where?

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06-07-2013, 02:47 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
There's a possibility he will be a bust. There's a possibility he will develop at a rapid pace from this point on. I don't pretend to have his future all mapped out.
What are you expecting?

I mean you must have an idea. If it was that outlandish that he is part of the core of this team moving forward you must feel he is closer to bust, no?

And -31- this isn't totally directed at you, just trying to figure out what people expect from him next year.

I am hoping for 15-20 goals, 30-40 points.

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06-07-2013, 02:51 PM
  #187
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please please PLEASE no Matt Hendricks. Has overpaid Sather signing written all over it.

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06-07-2013, 02:52 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
What are you expecting?

I mean you must have an idea. If it was that outlandish that he is part of the core of this team moving forward you must feel he is closer to bust, no?

And -31- this isn't totally directed at you, just trying to figure out what people expect from him next year.

I am hoping for 15-20 goals, 30-40 points.
Best guess? 65 games, 11 goals, 15 assists. But he must have the widest range of expectations of any player on the team.

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06-07-2013, 02:53 PM
  #189
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Best guess? 65 games, 11 goals, 15 assists. But he must have the widest range of expectations of any player on the team.
I would agree. Seems some people expect 30 goals, some expect 10.

I don't see it as farfetched to see him as part of the core moving forward. I still see the potential offensively but someone really needs to work with him. He is still raw.

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06-07-2013, 02:55 PM
  #190
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And who said that and where?
Why are we having this argument then?
This started when I included Kreider in the core going forward. if you agree but he still needs work, we are all good. Well .... except Kershaw.

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06-07-2013, 02:56 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I would agree. Seems some people expect 30 goals, some expect 10.

I don't see it as farfetched to see him as part of the core moving forward. I still see the potential offensively but someone really needs to work with him. He is still raw.
And it wouldn't shock me if he scored 20-25 goals next season. It wouldn't floor me if scored 5 or less, either. I think I projected him for 7 this season, and most people thought that was a low.

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06-07-2013, 02:57 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
And it wouldn't shock me if he scored 20-25 goals next season. It wouldn't floor me if scored 5 or less, either. I think I projected him for 7 this season, and most people thought that was a low.
I thought that would be low, but I also did not expect him to have such a hard time adapting to the NHL game. He looked good again in the playoffs using his size and speed to get and create chances. He just needs to work hard and understand that is how he has to play all the time.

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06-07-2013, 03:03 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I thought that would be low, but I also did not expect him to have such a hard time adapting to the NHL game. He looked good again in the playoffs using his size and speed to get and create chances. He just needs to work hard and understand that is how he has to play all the time.
Agreed, but coach should also accept there are growing pains.

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06-07-2013, 03:04 PM
  #194
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Agreed, but coach should also accept there are growing pains.
Should a coach who is mandated to make the playoffs in a 48 game season have to deal with the growing pains?

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06-07-2013, 03:07 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Should a coach who is mandated to make the playoffs in a 48 game season have to deal with the growing pains?
Certain coaches deal with it and allow their players to play while grooming them for now and the future.

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06-07-2013, 03:07 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Should a coach who is mandated to make the playoffs in a 48 game season have to deal with the growing pains?
Talking about the future.
My beef with the org in general this season with Kreider is he should have been left down in the AHL to fully develop, yoyo ing him all the time was not good for nobody.

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06-07-2013, 03:08 PM
  #197
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Certain coaches deal with it and allow their players to play while grooming them for now and the future.
Forget certain coaches - Im talking about Tortorella's situation last season.

Sure seems like the same type of patience being preached on a player's behalf wasn't extended to the coach after a weird season.

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06-07-2013, 03:10 PM
  #198
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Talking about the future.
My beef with the org in general this season with Kreider is he should have been left down in the AHL to fully develop, yoyo ing him all the time was not good for nobody.
Fair enough.

I think the confusion in the first place was I was talking about the core right now. Maybe Kreider is part of it going forward, maybe hes a bust.

I'd consider the core right now to be:

Lundqvist
McDonagh
Stepan
Nash
Callahan
Girardi

Maybe Staal if he's healthy - maybe Brassard is he continues to play well.

Thats about it though.

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06-07-2013, 03:11 PM
  #199
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Forget certain coaches - Im talking about Tortorella's situation last season.

Sure seems like the same type of patience being preached on a player's behalf wasn't extended to the coach after a weird season.
Was that partially because he showed no patience with a young player like Kreider?

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06-07-2013, 03:14 PM
  #200
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Fair enough.

I think the confusion in the first place was I was talking about the core right now. Maybe Kreider is part of it going forward, maybe hes a bust.

I'd consider the core right now to be:

Lundqvist
McDonagh
Stepan
Nash
Callahan
Girardi

Maybe Staal is he's healthy - maybe Brassard is he continues to play well.

Thats about it though.
Let's assume there are question marks about Kreider, although from Sather comments, he sure sounds like he is part of the core going forward. But what about Hagelin, where do you see him?

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