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Evander Kane all fired up on twitter

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Old
06-14-2013, 02:48 PM
  #126
tacogeoff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Contrary to how many seem to be framing it here, there's no finite line for what's considered offensive language.

Evander Kane made a comment that could be considered unbecoming of a pro athlete with a large public profile. He's well within his right to say it, others are well within their right to ask that he alter his language, as it's clear Patrick Burke did.

This isn't about what's "PC" (whatever the hell that means) and who's thin-skinned, this is about an athlete who needs to exercise more tact with social media. No big deal.



What the hell does political affiliation have to do with this?
you nailed it hank

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06-14-2013, 02:49 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartho View Post
The only thing moronic is the notion that someone's indignation should get to overwrite what the dictionary says a word means.
???

You made an argument that the far-and-away minority definition of 'fairy' trumps what is widely known by the word 'fairy'. I pointed out that if your argument were true, people would need to "chill out" by getting offended at colloquial use of the word **** because the far-and-away minority definition would then trump the widely understood definition of '****' as sexual penetration without consent.

Please explain how this does not refute your argument by showing it is paradoxical and self-contradictory, because it pretty clearly appears to be so.


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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
It was a rhetorical statement. "Politically correct" is so vague and low on information content that I typically tune out any comments that use it.

Sorry, language pet peeve of mine. Carry on!
Well, I think I demonstrated that the term "political correctness" is not vague, but precise, and I think my definition was quite informative.

And no worries -- people denying that political correctness "is a thing" is a pet peeve of mine. There is a well-documented and 100% clear distinction between "political correctness" and "basic human decency".

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06-14-2013, 02:58 PM
  #128
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I'm going to a thread about two hockey teams virtually kicking the crap out of each other to win the Stanley Cup......

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06-14-2013, 02:58 PM
  #129
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Man my head hurts... time for some Extra Strength Advil Liqui-Gels. Four should do it.

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06-14-2013, 02:59 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by DespoticNewt View Post
...

Evander Kane referred to Chris Bosh as a fairy. Fairy has been known for a long time as a derogatory term for a gay person. That is why people are upset over its usage. Quit feeling the need to defend Kane's lack of social awareness.
I'm not defending Kane. I'm defending the countless people that are being persetuted by the PC police for every slightly off color remark they make.

To me, the modern interpretation of "fairy" means a feminine male. It has very little to do with sexual orientation anymore.

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06-14-2013, 03:03 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaLackey View Post
???

You made an argument that the far-and-away minority definition of 'fairy' trumps what is widely known by the word 'fairy'.
You're just flat out wrong. Fairy is not as obscure as you think it is. Just because it may not be widely used at the moment doesn't mean that people forgot about it.

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06-14-2013, 03:04 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaLackey View Post
???

You made an argument that the far-and-away minority definition of 'fairy' trumps what is widely known by the word 'fairy'. I pointed out that if your argument were true, people would need to "chill out" by getting offended at colloquial use of the word **** because the far-and-away minority definition would then trump the widely understood definition of '****' as sexual penetration without consent.

Please explain how this does not refute your argument by showing it is paradoxical and self-contradictory, because it pretty clearly appears to be so.
When people choose to use words that have multiple definitions, and some of those definitions are derogatory and offensive (like the word "fairy"), justifying the use of said word because "anyone who would get offended by its use is a PC crybaby" is absolutely moronic.

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06-14-2013, 03:06 PM
  #133
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I think EK is a big fairy for retracting his twitter comment.

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06-14-2013, 03:07 PM
  #134
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This is the last thing i'm going to post on it. I felt similarly to you when i first came into a situation like this and it bothered me that someone elses ignorance of language was somehow turning me into a villain. That being said, when you think about it a little more i don't know how you can arrive at any other conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaLackey View Post
The only thing moronic is the notion that someone's indignation should get to overwrite what the dictionary says a word means. There exist a number of words in the English language that describe dainty, soft, gentle, un-macho mannerisms that are completely devoid of any connotation of sexual orientation whatsoever. Fairy is one of them.

Regardless of what you want to believe, this is the way of the world. Compare this years dictionary to a dictionary of the 70's. Compare that to a dictionary of the 1870's. Compare that to one of the 1670's.

Like it or not, languages evolve. Language evolves based on it's usage. When people perceive language differently, it gets used differently. When enough people use it differently, it become standard. When it becomes standard it enters the dictionary or has it's definition changed.

I understand your viewpoint, but it's just inaccurate. If it wasn't we would still speak and use the same words that they did when the first English dictionary was written.

Language is not static. The "dictionary" is still just a "relative" guide to language, despite it's title. If it wasn't, we'd have no need for revisions or new editions.

Quote:
And it isn't "being offended" that is the hallmark of political correctness; it's when one believes ones indignation trumps reality, and that others should be forced to apologize for something they didn't do or say something they didn't say, simply because one chooses to misinterpret words in order to maximize being offended.



If I use language that is not offensive, and you take offence to it, you need to toughen up, end of line.
If i'm the only one, maybe i need to think about the word and figure out if they actually meant it in an offensive way. If a large swath of the population takes offense, then maybe it's something we should be cognisant of?

Also "choosing to misinterpret words in order to maximize being offended" how can you prove that? I know what you mean, and i believe their or some people that DO do this in an attempt to elevate their soap box a little higher, but your operating on the base assumption that "everyone else" is doing that. That's a pretty ridiculous assumption.


Quote:
Sounds-hypothetical, actually-real example: if you get offended by my use of the word 'niggardly', the problem is 100.000% with you, not with me.



The test for "is something offensive" is NOT "how many people take offence". Even if you aren't offended by '******', that doesn't mean it's not a slur; even if you are offended by 'niggardly', that doesn't mean that it is. Words have dictionary definitions and universally accepted and agreed-upon meanings. You don't get to substitute your own and take offence at your new definitions.
i dare say the dictionary would describe offensive as something that causes offense. Wether or not The offense was part of my lack of understanding or not doesn't factor into the equation.


again i get what your saying. I personally was a little exasperated at some of the stuff that went on in the states around the word niggardly, but if the mass population views the word differently, then it's no longer a universally accepted definition and the definition you are choosing to stand by (the non derogatory one) would be, as you said, archaic.



Your argument starts and ends with a belief that language is static, does not evolve and the oxford english dictionary holds some power beyond cultural perception.

A definition is merely a commonly accepted perception of a word. if the common perception changes (as it has) then the definition has changed.







edit: Go jets Go!

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Old
06-14-2013, 03:08 PM
  #135
Howard Chuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnova View Post
I think EK is a big fairy for retracting his twitter comment.
Guess HFboards needs to get rid of this.....

I'm sorry.... I'll stop

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Old
06-14-2013, 03:13 PM
  #136
Hank Chinaski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnova View Post
I think EK is a big fairy for retracting his twitter comment.
I'm deeply offended by this comment and think you should apologize. (I hope the sarcasm smiley isn't necessary)

(...)

Now you, just like Evander Kane, have every right to either apologize or tell me to take my offense and stick it where the sun don't shine.

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06-14-2013, 03:34 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartho View Post
It's 100% sarcasm. The post was made to highlight how ridiculous the post I specifically quoted is.
OK, gotcha, I hadn't read enough of your posts to know for sure.

Anyway, you're new around here, aintcha? Y'know we don't take kindly to strangers pokin' fun at our star players or points of view around here...


Edit:JK

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06-14-2013, 04:13 PM
  #138
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Had Kane called Bosh a big 'ol puss instead, would there have been fallout? The context would have been the same.

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06-14-2013, 04:34 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howard chuck View Post
guess hfboards needs to get rid of this.....

I'm sorry.... I'll stop
i am so offended

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Old
06-14-2013, 04:49 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
Had Kane called Bosh a big 'ol puss instead, would there have been fallout? The context would have been the same.
Yeah. I think fairy is used as a PG version of ***** in a lot of instances.

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06-14-2013, 04:50 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
I'm deeply offended by this comment and think you should apologize. (I hope the sarcasm smiley isn't necessary)

(...)

Now you, just like Evander Kane, have every right to either apologize or tell me to take my offense and stick it where the sun don't shine.
Or call you a fairy for being offended.

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Old
06-14-2013, 05:11 PM
  #142
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Way too many over sensitive cry babies on the planet. Really sad too see.

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Old
06-14-2013, 05:35 PM
  #143
Hank Chinaski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnova View Post
Or call you a fairy for being offended.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaLackey View Post
The test for "is something offensive" is NOT "how many people take offence". Even if you aren't offended by '******', that doesn't mean it's not a slur; even if you are offended by 'niggardly', that doesn't mean that it is. Words have dictionary definitions and universally accepted and agreed-upon meanings. You don't get to substitute your own and take offence at your new definitions.
I'm quoting this not because I fully disagree (I do sort of, but I'll get to that in a minute ) but because it's a pretty good segue for the last point I want to make on this subject.

I would argue that the test for whether something is offensive is indeed how many people take offense. Culture is what shapes language, and those agreed-upon meanings (which are never going to be "universally accepted") are always subject to cultural shifts. For example, "imbecile" used to be a diagnostic term for somebody with a low IQ, that was its agreed-upon definition. Over time, the phrase has morphed from a diagnostic term to an insult and is now defined as an informal noun ("I'm such an imbecile!"). There are countless examples of this as I'm sure you know.

I don't believe there was anything inherently offensive about what Evander Kane said, and I certainly don't believe there was any homophobic intent behind it. It was simply pointed out that he probably could have used a word that didn't have homophobic connotations, and he appears to have acknowledged this. Again, no big deal.

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06-14-2013, 05:39 PM
  #144
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yes and some words in the dictionary have more than one meaning
this is where context comes in handy

k I'm officially done with this thread

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06-14-2013, 05:55 PM
  #145
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1> I am one of Evander's biggest fans. I love the guy, and am glad he's on the team.

2> I am gay and yes I was offended by the comment. Not up in arms grab the pitchforks mad about it but he was making a suggestion that Chris Bosh was girly or effeminate (which I am not, btw) and that somehow that made him a flawed individual.

3> I do not believe that Kane said it with hate, or meant to hurt anyone's feelings. He just needs to adjust his social media filter.

When you make it acceptable to demean people publicly for traits they don't control, you are bullying and are saying it's ok to treat others like they are second class.

Yes, we are too 'PC' in this world but kids kill themselves over the way society talks about and treats gay people so I suggest it matters a lot.

Finally, anyone who is trying to draw parallels between the moneyphone incident and this beyond the fact that Kane needs to think a bit before posting is really not getting it.

PS as a humorous aside, one of the people who were raking Kane over the coals for the comment was my ex and Kane finally blocked him

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06-14-2013, 05:56 PM
  #146
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who dictions the dictionaries?

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06-14-2013, 05:57 PM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
1> I am one of Evander's biggest fans. I love the guy, and am glad he's on the team.

2> I am gay and yes I was offended by the comment. Not up in arms grab the pitchforks mad about it but he was making a suggestion that Chris Bosh was girly or effeminate (which I am not, btw) and that somehow that made him a flawed individual.

3> I do not believe that Kane said it with hate, or meant to hurt anyone's feelings. He just needs to adjust his social media filter.

When you make it acceptable to demean people publicly for traits they don't control, you are bullying and are saying it's ok to treat others like they are second class.

Yes, we are too 'PC' in this world but kids kill themselves over the way society talks about and treats gay people so I suggest it matters a lot.

Finally, anyone who is trying to draw parallels between the moneyphone incident and this beyond the fact that Kane needs to think a bit before posting is really not getting it.
where the **** is the "rep" button?

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Old
06-14-2013, 06:14 PM
  #148
Hank Chinaski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
1> I am one of Evander's biggest fans. I love the guy, and am glad he's on the team.

2> I am gay and yes I was offended by the comment. Not up in arms grab the pitchforks mad about it but he was making a suggestion that Chris Bosh was girly or effeminate (which I am not, btw) and that somehow that made him a flawed individual.

3> I do not believe that Kane said it with hate, or meant to hurt anyone's feelings. He just needs to adjust his social media filter.

When you make it acceptable to demean people publicly for traits they don't control, you are bullying and are saying it's ok to treat others like they are second class.

Yes, we are too 'PC' in this world but kids kill themselves over the way society talks about and treats gay people so I suggest it matters a lot.

Finally, anyone who is trying to draw parallels between the moneyphone incident and this beyond the fact that Kane needs to think a bit before posting is really not getting it.

PS as a humorous aside, one of the people who were raking Kane over the coals for the comment was my ex and Kane finally blocked him
Awesome post.

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06-14-2013, 08:38 PM
  #149
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The NBA fined Bosh $5000 for his flop.

http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=425496

Miami Heat star Chris Bosh has been fined $5,000 for flopping during Game 4 of the NBA Finals.

Bosh was trailing Spurs forward Tim Duncan as the two headed back down the court when Duncan established post position in the paint. As Spurs guard Gary Neal approached with the dribble, Duncan posted up a late-arriving Bosh to try to seal him away from the play. Bosh flailed his arms and fell to the ground.

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06-14-2013, 08:40 PM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
1> I am one of Evander's biggest fans. I love the guy, and am glad he's on the team.

2> I am gay and yes I was offended by the comment. Not up in arms grab the pitchforks mad about it but he was making a suggestion that Chris Bosh was girly or effeminate (which I am not, btw) and that somehow that made him a flawed individual.

3> I do not believe that Kane said it with hate, or meant to hurt anyone's feelings. He just needs to adjust his social media filter.

When you make it acceptable to demean people publicly for traits they don't control, you are bullying and are saying it's ok to treat others like they are second class.

Yes, we are too 'PC' in this world but kids kill themselves over the way society talks about and treats gay people so I suggest it matters a lot.

Finally, anyone who is trying to draw parallels between the moneyphone incident and this beyond the fact that Kane needs to think a bit before posting is really not getting it.

PS as a humorous aside, one of the people who were raking Kane over the coals for the comment was my ex and Kane finally blocked him
My main problem with this post is that EK didn't say that Bosh himself was soft/effeminent, but said he played the game that way. I wouldn't define that as a personal characteristic or something that he has no control over.

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