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Maple Leafs should trade Phil Kessel

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Old
06-07-2013, 01:01 PM
  #76
SprDaVE
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Only way Kessel gets traded, for me, it's for a legit top line center around the same age.

There aren't many of those around, I know, but there aren't many Kessels around either.

People like to hate Kessel but he's a great scoring winger that is only 25/26 years old.

I would have no interest, and I mean no interest, in a pick package, unless MacKinnon (I'm biased for him though) is there for us to pick. That's about it.

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06-07-2013, 01:03 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
What is your point ?

Kessel is at home watching the playoffs also on television, so does that lower his trade value as a result of his teams situation?
I think the point is more that with Richards and Carter the Flyers got to the cup final coming up short against Chicago. And now Richards and Carter are together again in LA and have won the cup and are deep in the playoffs again this year while Philly is not in the playoffs at all.

That's what trading your best players at 'high value' for good return gets you. The Leafs will not make the playoffs next if they trade Kessel. I'm not saying they will make it if the don't trade him, but you trade you best player for a group of players of lesser quality it is only a downgrade no matter how many bodies come back.

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06-07-2013, 01:03 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by VoicexOfxReason View Post
I would trade Kessel for Mackinnon and a small-medium plus. And im one of his biggest fan.
If Nonis is at all interested in a top pick, then Kessel is certainly on the list as a bargaining chip to open up such dialogue with a team holding one.

Both Colorado and Florida have stated publicly that they're willing to deal their picks and Nonis is at a crossroads with an expiring contract of Kessel requiring a decision and long-term solution in the near future.

Kessel has a NTC clause that kicks in July 1st, 2013 as he enters the final year of his deal, which then limits Nonis trade options thereafter without player consent. So timing wise this month would be the only one left where a NTC was not a part of the situation of any trade issues.

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06-07-2013, 01:04 PM
  #79
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So so so so so dumb.

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06-07-2013, 01:06 PM
  #80
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James Reimer was fantastic this year. Why do we need to upgrade on a goaltender who was one of the better ones in the league this year? Maybe improve the backup, but Reimer is legit.

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06-07-2013, 01:07 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
just because burke paid 2 firsts and a 2nd doesnt mean thats what kessels value is. burke could have offer sheeted kessel for less.

the aves could easily and justifiably take mackinnon. stastny is likely on the way out, Who knows what ror situation is long term and duchene could be a hit away from be done.
Kessel has shown his value to be greater to that. An Offer Sheet would have pretty much gauranteed Kessel would not be a Leaf today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Philly traded Mike Richards for Brayden Schenn (#5 overall) & Wayne Simmonds (2nd rounder).

&

Jeff Carter was traded for the #7 overall (Sean Couturier) & Jakub Voracek (former #7 overall) = 2 X top 10 picks.

Phil Kessel was acquired for 2 X 1sts and 2nd originally.

Kessel as a top 10 NHL scorer currently value should be at its highest in trade value.
I agree that Kessel's value is pretty high, that doesn't mean he should be traded.

Your Flyer example is proof that it's better to hold onto good proven players espiecially when your NOT rebuilding.

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06-07-2013, 01:07 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Loosie View Post
I think the point is more that with Richards and Carter the Flyers got to the cup final coming up short against Chicago. And now Richards and Carter are together again in LA and have won the cup and are deep in the playoffs again this year while Philly is not in the playoffs at all.

That's what trading your best players at 'high value' for good return gets you. The Leafs will not make the playoffs next if they trade Kessel. I'm not saying they will make it if the don't trade him, but you trade you best player for a group of players of lesser quality it is only a downgrade no matter how many bodies come back.
That is now, but that wasn't the case at the time of their trades occurring, so I'm not sure how what is happening today having any effect on their trades from 2+ years ago. Besides Carter was traded to Columbus not LA by Philly, so where he is now makes even less sense to factor into his original trade value.

When determining a players potential trade value, looking around the league as examples of other trades that have occurred is common practice.


Last edited by Mess: 06-07-2013 at 01:35 PM.
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06-07-2013, 01:09 PM
  #83
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so we trade kessel for "someone" who is equally valuable to their team. Hockey trades rarely work that way. Both JVR and Schenn were on the outs. Teams just don't trade players who are that important to their club. So if we do trade Phil, you can guarantee that we get a lesser value in return.

So that we can sign Bozak (who isnt worth more than 3.5), Kormorov (who will get more money in the khl and will probably leave) and a marginally good winger like Clarkson?

Kessel is one of the top scoring players in the NHL over the last 5 years. He is next to irreplaceable. You build around players like that.

Just a bad idea


Last edited by The Caveman: 06-07-2013 at 01:17 PM. Reason: bad grammar
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06-07-2013, 01:10 PM
  #84
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I think it's important to see what Kessel's intentions are. Ask him if his intention is to re-sign and for how much. If he does not seem that likely to re-sign, then by all means, trade him.

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06-07-2013, 01:12 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
If Nonis is at all interested in a top pick, then Kessel is certainly on the list as a bargaining chip to open up such dialogue with a team holding one.

Both Colorado and Florida have stated publicly that they're willing to deal their picks and Nonis is at a crossroads with an expiring contract of Kessel requiring a decision and long-term solution in the near future.

Kessel has a NTC clause that kicks in July 1st, 2013 as he enters the final year of his deal, which then limits Nonis trade options thereafter without player consent. So timing wise this month would be the only one left where a NTC was not a part of the situation of any trade issues.
Nonis is on a short leash, now is not the time for career defining moves.

Can Kessel be re-signed before the Draft.?

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06-07-2013, 01:13 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by rojac View Post
Surely you can't be serious about 6.5 for Kessel. Do you really think he is worth ~$2M a year less than Corey Perry? I would be amazed if Kessel got anything less than $7.5M and if such a deal was for less than the 8 year maximum.
Read the post I was responding to...

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06-07-2013, 01:21 PM
  #87
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Better off using JVR to get a young centre. Keep Kessel... Please.

Offer JVR+ for Joe Pavelski


Last edited by KesseltoLupul: 06-07-2013 at 01:27 PM.
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06-07-2013, 01:29 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Kessel has shown his value to be greater to that. An Offer Sheet would have pretty much gauranteed Kessel would not be a Leaf today.

I agree that Kessel's value is pretty high, that doesn't mean he should be traded.

Your Flyer example is proof that it's better to hold onto good proven players espiecially when your NOT rebuilding.
I have not said he should be traded, I'm only speculating on the type of return that is possible, based on an article that claims he should be.

Based on this thread we know Kessel was acquired for 2 X 1st round picks + 2nd and despite being one of the top scorers in the game today, it appears some feel Leafs couldn't get a similar return in trade if dealt to match his cost.

You feel Leafs needed to surrender 2 X 1st and 2nd to obtain Kessel as draft pick compensation 1st, 2nd, 3rd was not enough.

So on one hand he is being built up as a superstar that can't possibly even be consider traded, and at the same time arguing we would never get a fair return so lower your expectations accordingly as nobody is going to be trading top picks for him. It's naive of me to even suggest that. Which one is it ?

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06-07-2013, 01:29 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
I'd list Kessel as untouchable. Everyone else, sure. But Kessel is one of those players you just don't trade
Further to the point, lets take the guys who finished top 10 in scoring this year....

St.Louis
Stamkos
Ovi
Crosby
Kane
Staal
Kessel
Kunitz
Hall
Getzlaf

Or Last.....
Malkin
Stamkos
Giroux
Spezza
Kovi
Kessel
Neal
Tavares
H.Sedin
Elias

How many of these teams fans (or media) would be talking about trading these guys?
I say sign him to whatever and keep on building.

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06-07-2013, 01:32 PM
  #90
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You just don't trade young, proven NHL superstars for draft picks. They are a crap shoot. This is a deep draft, and there are quality players that will be picked from 1-30. Get the drafting right, sign your top players long term. That is how you succeed.

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06-07-2013, 01:40 PM
  #91
Mess
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Originally Posted by The Caveman View Post
You just don't trade young, proven NHL superstars for draft picks. They are a crap shoot. This is a deep draft, and there are quality players that will be picked from 1-30. Get the drafting right, sign your top players long term. That is how you succeed.
What did Boston do when dealing Kessel to Toronto?

Boston is poised to take a run at their 2nd Stanley Cup in past 3 years, since trading Kessel for draft picks.

Would 2 Stanley Cups be considered succeeding?

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06-07-2013, 01:41 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
What did Boston do when dealing Kessel to Toronto?

Boston is poised to take a run at their 2nd Stanley Cup in past 3 years since trading Kessel for draft picks.
If we can get three first round picks I would take it and run.

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06-07-2013, 01:44 PM
  #93
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Only trade him if he won't sign. Do everything you can to sign him.

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06-07-2013, 01:45 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
What did Boston do when dealing Kessel to Toronto?

Boston is poised to take a run at their 2nd Stanley Cup in past 3 years since trading Kessel for draft picks.
Except that the players that were taken are not those responsible for the run. Krejci (drafted 63rd), Bergeron (45th), marchand (71st) are the dudes. Charra was UFA.

My point is that if you have a superstar, you keep him. Then draft well and develop. The myth that top 5 picks are guarantees of success is just that - a myth, unless they are generational talents.

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06-07-2013, 01:47 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
What did Boston do when dealing Kessel to Toronto?

Boston is poised to take a run at their 2nd Stanley Cup in past 3 years, since trading Kessel for draft picks.

Would 2 Stanley Cups be considered succeeding?
They didn't win the Cup because they traded Kessel.

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06-07-2013, 01:52 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
They didn't win the Cup because they traded Kessel.
That is true. But they didnt think they needed Kessel to win a cup. To Kessel's credit he has changed since Boston, he is alot better, more complete.

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06-07-2013, 01:53 PM
  #97
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Employing rags like DiManno, most certainly a tabloid newspaper

Petition to fire blatantly crude columnist Rosie DiManno
Ah, DiManno, the person who writes nothing of substance, knows nothing about the topics she writes about but is still allowed to write about everything from politics to sports. A column of hers that doesn't elicit a groan would be surprising.

Feschuk is trying to stir the pot, and riling up the fanbase with a controversial column is easier than digging for interesting news about what the Leafs will do in the summer.

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06-07-2013, 01:56 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by The Caveman View Post
Kessel is one of the top scoring players in the NHL over the last 5 years. He is next to irreplaceable. You build around players like that.

Just a bad idea
I forget the stat but isn't kessel top 3 in goal scoring since the last lock out behind stamkos and ovechkin ? Something like that. Ya lets trade him for futures

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06-07-2013, 02:00 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
They didn't win the Cup because they traded Kessel.
Actually, they likely did. If they decided to keep Kessel, they would have had to unload another contract to stay under the cap, and based on their situation at the time, it likely would have been David Krejci.

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06-07-2013, 02:03 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
What did Boston do when dealing Kessel to Toronto?

Boston is poised to take a run at their 2nd Stanley Cup in past 3 years, since trading Kessel for draft picks.

Would 2 Stanley Cups be considered succeeding?
and what would that have to do with the kessel trade?

unless you're trying to argue Boston wouldn't be a better team with him.

the problem with this trade kessel stuff is that Feschuk, or anyone else for that matter, needs to show who kessel would be traded for and how it would make the leafs better than if they kept their best player.

thus far I have yet to see that.

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