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Maple Leafs should trade Phil Kessel

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Old
06-07-2013, 08:08 PM
  #176
Ed Belfour
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Well, this was just stupid.

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Old
06-07-2013, 08:25 PM
  #177
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look at that flex

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06-07-2013, 08:51 PM
  #178
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This article represents why the leafs can't have good things.

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06-07-2013, 09:33 PM
  #179
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Small handful of centres I trade Kessel for anyways.

Crosby
Malkin
Stamkos
Tavares
Giroux
Kopitar
Toews

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06-07-2013, 09:56 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KesseltoLupul View Post
Small handful of centres I trade Kessel for anyways.

Crosby
Malkin
Stamkos
Tavares
Giroux
Kopitar
Toews
maybe kopitar the rest not a chance lmao ......kessel may just get traded ,hes just not in that company

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06-07-2013, 09:57 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KesseltoLupul View Post
Small handful of centres I trade Kessel for anyways.

Crosby
Malkin
Stamkos
Tavares
Giroux
Kopitar
Toews
I agree with this list.

Just because of his contract ending, it it something at least ponder.

I just hope he gets extended myself.

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06-07-2013, 10:03 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by KesseltoLupul View Post
Small handful of centres I trade Kessel for anyways.

Crosby
Malkin
Giroux
E. Staal
Matt Duchene
More like it.

I like Stamkos, but he does require a strong playmaking winger. More so, he has been a lot more sheltered than Phil Kessel as well. He's not exactly a two-way player nor can he elevate players as well as Phil Kessel.

Claude Giroux, on the other hand, is better. He reminds me of Doug Gilmour. You can place him up against stiff competition, start him primarily in the defensive zone and he produce 90pts. Those kind of players are very difficult to match up against especially during the playoffs. However, Kessel is being given more stiffer competition, and may end up being a lot more versatile. Still a lot of potential left.

Maybe I should add Matt Duchene as well. He produced at PPG while up against the top lines. In terms of advanced statistics, he is elite in this regard. He's employed quite similar to Stast ( albeit more offensively), but produces. I'm really a big fan of players who can play two-way hockey, and generate offence in all situations. It is getting obvious that it's essential in playoffs hockey.

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06-07-2013, 10:03 PM
  #183
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Malkin is a UFA next year.

If you say he'll get locked up first, I don't see why Phil can't as well.

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06-07-2013, 10:41 PM
  #184
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and what if we don't or can't re-sign him?

how dumb does it sound then.

we have a number of quality wingers and others available in free agency.

how do we land this top centre I'd like to know..

I'm not saying trade Kessel, but there is some sense in there to be honest.

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06-07-2013, 10:47 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by HellasLEAF View Post
and what if we don't or can't re-sign him?

how dumb does it sound then.

we have a number of quality wingers and others available in free agency.

how do we land this top centre I'd like to know..

I'm not saying trade Kessel, but there is some sense in there to be honest.
It's already statistically shown that Legit #1C's are built from the draft, excluding Joe Thornton who was traded from his Draft team. All other Elite/PPG #1C's have remained with their respected draft teams, and probably will until they are 35+ years old.

It would take a lot to get a #1C via trade, with kessel ultimately being a bargaining chip, but with a year left on his contract he doesn't have as much value to land a #1C.

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06-07-2013, 10:50 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by HellasLEAF View Post
and what if we don't or can't re-sign him?

how dumb does it sound then.

we have a number of quality wingers and others available in free agency.

how do we land this top centre I'd like to know..

I'm not saying trade Kessel, but there is some sense in there to be honest.
If he can keep up his pace, offer him 7 million, case closed.
ok so we land a top center, and then we go back to the sundin age, where we then want a winger for him.

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06-08-2013, 12:34 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by hockeywiz542 View Post
http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...l_feschuk.html



The Leafs' Phil Kessel is a perimeter-hugging winger in a net-front league, says Dave Feschuk, playing for a team that will need to give up something of value to land its long-sought No. 1 centre.
I say this every time Feschuk makes one of his ******** Leafs/hockey related stories. This man has no idea about the game or the sport. He needs to just stop writing about hockey because he sounds like a complete moron. Go back to the Raptors Feschuk, pleaseeee!!! this man has no idea wtf he's talking about. My goodness this city has some terrible terrible writers.

What Feschuk doesn't seem to grasp in his tiny head is that even mentions Kessel has one year remaining on his contract but in the same breath says we can move him for a number 1 center. No team is going to give up a number 1 center for a year of Kessel and whatever else we give up would be too much. Kessel if traded is going to get multiple high end prospects and picks. Who the ******* is going to move a number 1 center for Kessel? Look I love Kessel but you don't move a number 1 center for a winger who has one year left on his contract unless you badly need one. To get a number 1 center we're going to have to overpay big time and lets say we do move Kessel we make a huge hole on the wing. It's not as easy as Feschuk makes it seem.

Also for someone to say Kessel doesn't go to the net tells me he didn't watch a single minute of the playoffs.


Last edited by Stats01: 06-08-2013 at 12:53 AM.
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06-08-2013, 01:12 AM
  #188
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Wait... We just made the playoffs, taking the would-be East champs to 7 games, where Phil Kessel proved himself to be a performer when it counts most, and now this guy's idea is to trade him?



Seriously, find something else to write about, this article is beyond ridiculous. The only way Phil gets traded is if he doesn't want to be here.

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06-08-2013, 04:59 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Why should he take a discount? The last team he was with tried to lowball him. All he wanted was market value. He proved to be worth more than that. Why shouldn't he get market value again?
I'm not saying he should. In fact history says he won't. At the time Burke made him the highest paid 21 yr old in the history of the NHL. I doubt he's going back.

In all fairness he has an amazing wrist shot and has been a better playmaker than expected, on the flip side of his celebrity that is Toronto, he's never scored 40 goals and his prime is now. He's not a fitness freak and there is plenty of evidence that he is a talent vs a Talented hard worker. I think he could be so much better yet he's riding his talent. Soon he's going to have to work hard and Phil has next to no work ethic. Major red flag on a long term high meal ticket.

I were a GM I would not invest heavily in an asset like that because I know it's not likely it's a great long term investment. Seen it a zillion times.

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06-08-2013, 07:43 AM
  #190
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1) Does Kessel want to re-sign? If he hesitates you have to be preemptive.
2) No one's untouchable. At least check the market for him. What if a great offer falls in your lap?

People need to stop being fans of players moreso than teams. And the people who dismiss the idea with a one-liner probably aren't thinking at the deepest level. He has his flaws, he can certainly be moved. Should he? It comes down to does he want to re-sign? For how much? And what kind of return can be command?

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06-08-2013, 07:46 AM
  #191
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I stop reading after he spelled 'want' as 'wont'


Definition of WONT

1
: accustomed, used <got up early as he is wont to do>
2
: inclined, apt <revealing as letters are wont to be — Gladys M. Wrigley>
See wont defined for English-language learners »
See wont defined for kids »

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06-08-2013, 08:51 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by K19 View Post
1) Does Kessel want to re-sign? If he hesitates you have to be preemptive.
2) No one's untouchable. At least check the market for him. What if a great offer falls in your lap?

People need to stop being fans of players moreso than teams. And the people who dismiss the idea with a one-liner probably aren't thinking at the deepest level. He has his flaws, he can certainly be moved. Should he? It comes down to does he want to re-sign? For how much? And what kind of return can be command?
A balanced opinion on Phil Kessel's future with the Leafs? Can't believe what I'm seeing.

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06-08-2013, 08:55 AM
  #193
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It's already statistically shown that Legit #1C's are built from the draft, excluding Joe Thornton who was traded from his Draft team. All other Elite/PPG #1C's have remained with their respected draft teams, and probably will until they are 35+ years old.

It would take a lot to get a #1C via trade, with kessel ultimately being a bargaining chip, but with a year left on his contract he doesn't have as much value to land a #1C.
The Leafs got Gilmour and Sundin by trade. Savard was a UFA when Boston got him. Carter/MRichards/Cammy/Ribeiro/BRichards/RLang are not elite but were right around a ppg in the seasons before they were dealt. The big reason why ppg centers aren't often moved seems to be they are rare enough clubs tend to want to lock them up, but not always. The value just has to be there, and the guy has to be surplus. Even the Gretzky trade, a "money" deal, only happened because the Kings were able to include Carson who had just scored 55 goals and 107pts as a 19 year old (plus they had Messier).

Who has a "spare" top line C? Colorado maybe, but not sure I would trade Phil for Duchene. They need to find someone who is not at the top of his game, and hope he ramps it up like Gilmour who was 28 and apparently declining when they added him. It wouldn't cost Kessel to add that sort of player.

Players like Kessel should only be moved because of money, which is ultimately why Malkin might leave Pittsburgh.His value might not stay this high, but you can say that about almost any player. He has no history of injuries. Considering how he produced with Bozak, I don't think he is topped out. They need to lock him up long term before he shows what he can accomplish with a proper #1C.

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Old
06-08-2013, 08:55 AM
  #194
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I think the Leafs should resign Phil. He will be a great player for us for years to come. We have a lot of nice pieces here, we could really use a guy like Bickell and another good solid dman. Maybe a year from now we can lure Malkkn here but I truly believe we have the makings of a good team. A guy like Bickell could really help us with players like Lucic. I would be hard pressed to trade Phil. With Lupul and JVR and Kadri, we have to makings of a good nucleus up front.

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06-08-2013, 08:58 AM
  #195
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No you don't trade Kessel, there is no need to, we are better off with 3 2c than a single 1c in this case because our wings are strong. We need a 2d, Ranger could do that.

Dion, Ranger, Gunner, Gards, Franson, ------

Should in theory be good once Gunner has surgery and his mobility back.

I also want to see what Colborne has and let go of Bozak, if a really good FA is ours we try that but Colborne should get a shot.

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06-08-2013, 08:59 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by The_Chosen_One View Post
Huh? Kessel is clearly worth $7-8 million per. In the regular season, his offensive zone starts were around 45%, and he was going up against higher competition than say, Corey Perry. Despite that, he produced more than Corey Perry.

Don't get me wrong here, I'd take Crosby over Kessel, but the standards being used are not consistent. Once the 'Sauga boy produces like Kessel, despite being very sheltered, he'll probably receive >$8 million. These discussions are seriously getting irritating.


Phil Kessel deserves $7-8 million like Corey Perry because he starts some shifts in the defensive zone and has to skate up the ice.

I've heard a lot of doozies from "advanced" stats folk, but this is a new low. What's irritating is people taking inherently flawed stats, dressing them up, rearranging them, and then passing it off as a literal truth.

I'm not sure what people don't understand but there is not a single model that can ever recreate a hockey game, tell me who performed well, who didn't, and how we should value these performances over the long run. I'm sorry, but hockey is meant to be watched. Spreadsheeting won't help you.

A model that rewards players like Grabovski for spamming shots from the top of the circle when he had linemates open in better position is not something that should be taken seriously.


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06-08-2013, 09:08 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post


Phil Kessel deserves $7-8 million like Corey Perry because he starts some shifts in the defensive zone and has to skate up the ice.

I've heard a lot of doozies from "advanced" stats folk, but this is a new low. What's irritating is people taking inherently flawed stats, dressing them up, rearranging them, and then passing it off as a literal truth.

I'm not sure what people don't understand but there is not a single model that can ever recreate a hockey game, tell me who performed well, who didn't, and how we should value these performances over the long run. I'm sorry, but hockey is meant to be watched. Spreadsheeting won't help you.

A model that rewards players like Grabovski for spamming shots from the top of the circle when he had linemates open in better position is not something that should be taken seriously.
When it boils down to it, you look with your eyes not stats and outside that time on attack vs defending. Completed plays consistency and ultimately points.

The goal is to find lines that control the play and put up points more often then not. If every line could spend 65% of every game attacking you would probably be the best team in the league. Would also have the most pp opportunities etc as trickle down effects are far reaching.

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06-08-2013, 09:11 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Didact View Post
too bad there isn't an ignore button when reading the Toronto Stat sports section.
Well, you could just physically ignore it and not go on the Star's website, but I guess that's too much work for you?

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06-08-2013, 09:12 AM
  #199
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When it boils down to it, you look with your eyes not stats and outside that time on attack vs defending. Completed plays consistency and ultimately points.
I'd pity the fanbase whose GM gives players contracts based on numbers he found for free on the internet made by nobody's.

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06-08-2013, 09:17 AM
  #200
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It's already statistically shown that Legit #1C's are built from the draft, excluding Joe Thornton who was traded from his Draft team. All other Elite/PPG #1C's have remained with their respected draft teams, and probably will until they are 35+ years old.

It would take a lot to get a #1C via trade, with kessel ultimately being a bargaining chip, but with a year left on his contract he doesn't have as much value to land a #1C.
For that basis of reason, is why I proposed trading Kessel in order to obtain a top draft pick and select and groom your own future #1 center in Nathan MacKinnon. They usually come from the draft and are seldom traded when accomplished and proven #1 centers.

Its just too bad Dave Nonis is not more like Cliff Fletcher was as our GM, because he was the kind of GM you could count on to land Toronto a Dougie Gilmour or Mats Sundin and give the team that building block franchise center in trade for the Leafs to build a team around.

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