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Rask vs Price.

View Poll Results: Who do you think will be better?
Price 45 26.47%
Rask 125 73.53%
Voters: 170. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-09-2013, 07:20 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
You're confused. I was speaking about durability. Price has shown that he is capable of being a workhorse goaltender and playing 60-70 games a season. Rask has yet to prove that he can shoulder such a heavy workload. It doesn't mean he can't, it just means that he hasn't yet. My comment had nothing to do with the playoffs.
This guy has played in over 50 games since the middle of January. He looks like a workhorse to me

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06-09-2013, 07:25 PM
  #77
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Ever think that Thomas and Rask being god-like are in part because of the players in front of them? Bruins are a ridiculously effective defensive team

Goalies are always over/under rated because of their team

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06-09-2013, 07:50 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
Unless he's by far the best goalie in the league, they will.

Career SV%:

Lundqvist - .920
Luongo - .919
Rinne - .919
Hiller - .917
Quick- .915
Price - .915
Miller - .915
Brodeur - .913
Etc.
...or maybe he IS one of the best goalies in the league, and they'll only come down very slightly.

Sometimes goalies perform incredibly well out of the gate and earn a reputation they don't truly deserve: Steve Mason is a great example, and Carey Price sort-of is as well.

Over a short period of time, goalies can play far above or far below their actual talent level. Halak vs Washington/Pittsburgh, Boucher holding the modern day shutout record, Brian Elliott last year, etc. On the flip side, sometimes goalies can play well below their actual talent level - Marc-Fleury is somewhere around league average, but he's been truly awful in the playoffs. Luongo didn't play much and had an awful season by his standards. Brian Elliott this year.

It turns out that after a goalie has faced 3,000 shots at even strength, you have a very, very good idea of how good he actually is.

Rask is far, far beyond facing 3,000 shots, and he's still playing terrific hockey. He just kept the Penguins (led the league in scoring this year, and were averaging 4+ goals a game in the playoffs) to 2 goals on 136 shots - a 0.985sv% in the series.

Continuing to bet against Tuukka Rask actually being a clear top-5 goalie in the league is baffling to me.

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Originally Posted by wKetch22 View Post
Revisionist history?
No, actual history.

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06-09-2013, 08:47 PM
  #79
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As a habs fan that has watched every game for years, Price is easily the most over-hyped played we've ever had. He's been consistently ok, nothing more. Rask is and will always remain better imo.

Price will win in the offseason when there's no games being played and everyone forgets how mediocre he's been, but as soon as the puck drops, the numbers speak for themselves, he's not a terrible goalie, but he's nowhere near the hype he gets. I also don't see all this superior talent that everyone drudges up. There are 15 goalies in the league as good as Price.

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06-09-2013, 08:51 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
It's worth noting that while Carey Price has never played less than 39 games in a season in his career, Tuukka Rask has only played more than 39 games in a season once in his career. Rask's stats certainly look better at first glance, but can he shoulder a 60-70 game workload the same way Price can? As a Leafs fan, I know that this is the same question a lot of people ask about Reimer, and it's certainly a valid one.
This is flawed logic, why do you need to play 70 games. In fact, cup winners seldom have a goalie who played that many games, one could argue that Price isn't capable of playing that load either and his numbers are hurt by it. No goalie should be playing 70 games. It's detrimental to the team in the long, for the most part.

Why the hell would we penalize Rask for being outstanding in his games and rewarding price for being bad in his, just because he played more. Price's numbers generally decline every year towards the end of the season, which suggests he's being overworked himself, I don't see how this is notch in Price's cap. Coaching has been part of the problem in Montreal, trying to coddle Price so much that all viable competition is sent packing, it's ridiculous, his numbers suggest he can't really handle the 70 games himself.

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06-09-2013, 08:52 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
You're confused. I was speaking about durability. Price has shown that he is capable of being a workhorse goaltender and playing 60-70 games a season. Rask has yet to prove that he can shoulder such a heavy workload. It doesn't mean he can't, it just means that he hasn't yet. My comment had nothing to do with the playoffs.
He's played 52 this year and held a .934 SV%, shutting out the best offense in the league twice in a stanley cup conference final and allowed 2 in 4.

He can handle it.

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06-09-2013, 09:16 PM
  #82
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Now? Obviously Rask, but that is because he is performing now while Price ended the season in a bad streak... If you ask me wjo is better in the big picture, i'd say Price. One is gettin hate all over recently and the other is the flavor of the month. This poll is just badly timed as only time will tell.

By the way, I think Rask is more the result of a better team, defense and system, but is better right now. Price has great potential, shows great things, and has done great things. He is getting hated for good reasons as his play dropped at the end. But, peaple overlook the good and focus on the bad with him. Pric has to show me he can achieve what he is capable of before I pick him over Rask, but he can easily do so.

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06-09-2013, 09:32 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Bourdon101 View Post
Now? Obviously Rask, but that is because he is performing now while Price ended the season in a bad streak... If you ask me wjo is better in the big picture, i'd say Price. One is gettin hate all over recently and the other is the flavor of the month. This poll is just badly timed as only time will tell.

By the way, I think Rask is more the result of a better team, defense and system, but is better right now. Price has great potential, shows great things, and has done great things. He is getting hated for good reasons as his play dropped at the end. But, peaple overlook the good and focus on the bad with him. Pric has to show me he can achieve what he is capable of before I pick him over Rask, but he can easily do so.
Rask was better than Price the entire year - to say he is the flavor of the month only proves your ignorance of him.

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06-09-2013, 09:35 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Chieftans22 View Post
Rask was better than Price the entire year - to say he is the flavor of the month only proves your ignorance of him.
I know he was, he was pretty good, better than Price, but the fact is he has been amazing against Pittsburg, therefore he is pretty hyped at the moment... But I am one who believes that Price can achieve to his potential, which is to me higher than Rask can.

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06-09-2013, 09:39 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Bourdon101 View Post
I know he was, he was pretty good, better than Price, but the fact is he has been amazing against Pittsburg, therefore he is pretty hyped at the moment... But I am one who believes that Price can achieve to his potential, which is to me higher than Rask can.
Why? What has Price shown to you that says "I have untapped potential"?

He hasn't been improving every year... fact is, his best year came at 23 and that's when Montreal made the playoffs as a 7 seed.

This year, as a 2 seed, Price was even worse. He was in the lower half of the league this year. .905 SV% on a #2 seed? That doesn't scream Top 5 to me - something I think Rask will be a part of.

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06-09-2013, 09:45 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
...or maybe he IS one of the best goalies in the league, and they'll only come down very slightly.

Sometimes goalies perform incredibly well out of the gate and earn a reputation they don't truly deserve: Steve Mason is a great example, and Carey Price sort-of is as well.

Over a short period of time, goalies can play far above or far below their actual talent level. Halak vs Washington/Pittsburgh, Boucher holding the modern day shutout record, Brian Elliott last year, etc. On the flip side, sometimes goalies can play well below their actual talent level - Marc-Fleury is somewhere around league average, but he's been truly awful in the playoffs. Luongo didn't play much and had an awful season by his standards. Brian Elliott this year.

It turns out that after a goalie has faced 3,000 shots at even strength, you have a very, very good idea of how good he actually is.

Rask is far, far beyond facing 3,000 shots, and he's still playing terrific hockey. He just kept the Penguins (led the league in scoring this year, and were averaging 4+ goals a game in the playoffs) to 2 goals on 136 shots - a 0.985sv% in the series.

Continuing to bet against Tuukka Rask actually being a clear top-5 goalie in the league is baffling to me.
Currently it's 0.07 better than Lundqvists, which is the difference between Lundqvist's and Bryzgalov's. It's likely to come down a fair amount.

Comparing Mason to Price? Are you serious? What a joke.

Far, far beyond? Price is far, far beyond that, Rask just passed that mark this year. Like I've said before, when Rask actually plays a starter's workload we'll have a better idea of how good he is.

And if you bet that Rask will keep up his current level of stats I think you'll be disappointed.

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06-09-2013, 09:54 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
No, actual history.
Quick didn't win the Vezina, chief

Yet I agree with everything else youre saying haha

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06-09-2013, 09:57 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
Currently it's 0.07 better than Lundqvists, which is the difference between Lundqvist's and Bryzgalov's. It's likely to come down a fair amount.

Comparing Mason to Price? Are you serious? What a joke.

Far, far beyond? Price is far, far beyond that, Rask just passed that mark this year. Like I've said before, when Rask actually plays a starter's workload we'll have a better idea of how good he is.

And if you bet that Rask will keep up his current level of stats I think you'll be disappointed.
Is this is a starter's workload?

52 games, 1,507 SA, .934 SV%, 1.92 GAA

Average in '11-'12 was

54 games, 1,651 SA, .915 SV%, 2.79 GAA

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06-09-2013, 10:38 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chieftans22 View Post
Why? What has Price shown to you that says "I have untapped potential"?

He hasn't been improving every year... fact is, his best year came at 23 and that's when Montreal made the playoffs as a 7 seed.

This year, as a 2 seed, Price was even worse. He was in the lower half of the league this year. .905 SV% on a #2 seed? That doesn't scream Top 5 to me - something I think Rask will be a part of.
You have to look beyong stats, Price is talented there is no denial. Things have gone wrong and right slong the way in montreal, he was rushed but he is still very promising. I have watched him play for about every game he played in the nhl, and he is a big, smart, athletic goalie who can compete hard. He is still living off hype, but he is also the number 1 goalie in a struggling team, has bad streaks in the end. He has not broke out yet, and what I am saying is that if he does (which I believe he will) he will be better than Rask.

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06-09-2013, 10:46 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Bourdon101 View Post
You have to look beyong stats, Price is talented there is no denial. Things have gone wrong and right slong the way in montreal, he was rushed but he is still very promising. I have watched him play for about every game he played in the nhl, and he is a big, smart, athletic goalie who can compete hard. He is still living off hype, but he is also the number 1 goalie in a struggling team, has bad streaks in the end. He has not broke out yet, and what I am saying is that if he does (which I believe he will) he will be better than Rask.
Couldn't anyone just argue Rask hasn't broken out yet, and he will become the greatest goalie of all time?

Even if he doesn't, and Price does 'break out', he would have to average a .976 SV% over the next 3 years, assuming ~1800 shots a year, to even get to Rasks' current level.

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06-09-2013, 11:00 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
Currently it's 0.07 better than Lundqvists, which is the difference between Lundqvist's and Bryzgalov's. It's likely to come down a fair amount.
Likely to... based on what? Can you name another goaltender whose career save percentage dropped that much after 5,000 shots?

Quote:
Comparing Mason to Price? Are you serious? What a joke.
Similar in the sense that Price was incredible in his rookie year and has been very average in 4 of the 5 years since. Mason was just "very good" in his rookie year and has been awful since.

Quote:
Far, far beyond? Price is far, far beyond that, Rask just passed that mark this year. Like I've said before, when Rask actually plays a starter's workload we'll have a better idea of how good he is.
I know Price has faced far more shots - and he's done a far worse job of stopping them. That's my point.

Rask has started 50 games since January 19th. In those 50 games he has a save percentage of 0.934.

Carey Price seasons with 50+ games:
2007-2008, 40 reg season + 11 playoff starts, 0.916sv%
2008-2009, 49 reg season + 4 playoff starts, 0.904sv%
2010-2011, 70 reg season + 7 playoff starts, 0.924sv%
2011-2012, 65 reg season starts, 0.916sv%

So, in his first and only season of 50+ starts, Rask has been significantly better than Price has ever been in his "workhorse" seasons.

I think the odds that Rask is somehow physically incapable of playing 65+ games are much smaller than the odds are that Price will magically start consistently pitching elite seasons in net.. but that's just me.

Quote:
And if you bet that Rask will keep up his current level of stats I think you'll be disappointed.
Rask had a 0.938sv% at even strength this year... That's pretty insane and approaching Tim Thomas' modern-day record of 0.941. I don't think he'll maintain that because I don't think any goaltender can. However, I would bet strongly that Rask outplays Price in at least 4 of the next 5 seasons, 2 or 3 times by a significant margin.

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06-09-2013, 11:02 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby G View Post
Ever think that Thomas and Rask being god-like are in part because of the players in front of them? Bruins are a ridiculously effective defensive team

Goalies are always over/under rated because of their team
I agree with this and that's why I think Price is even more overhype than people think. Every goalies who played in Montreal for the last 20 years looked good. What happened to Halak after Montreal? Why Huet was an AHL level goalie outside of Montreal? Theodore? All those guys were statistically in the top of the league with Montreal (something Price never achieve) and all those guys career went downhill after Montreal.

P.S. that doesn't mean Rask stat aren't better because he play in Boston, because they are.

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06-09-2013, 11:11 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post

Rask has started 50 games since January 19th. In those 50 games he has a save percentage of 0.934.

Carey Price seasons with 50+ games:
2007-2008, 40 reg season + 11 playoff starts, 0.916sv%
2008-2009, 49 reg season + 4 playoff starts, 0.904sv%
2010-2011, 70 reg season + 7 playoff starts, 0.924sv%
2011-2012, 65 reg season starts, 0.916sv%
Rask also started in 58 games in 2009-2010, so that's two over 50 seasons. 45 reg season + 13 playoff starts, 0.926sv% and that include the infamous "epic choke job".

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06-10-2013, 01:34 AM
  #94
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Rask also started in 58 games in 2009-2010, so that's two over 50 seasons. 45 reg season + 13 playoff starts, 0.926sv% and that include the infamous "epic choke job".
I forgot about that season, yeah. Rask started 39 regular season and 13 playoff games.

I think people make too much out of "choke jobs" - literally anything can happen in a playoff series. The best team doesn't always win (see: 05-06 Edmonton 41-28-13, +5 goal differential vs Detroit 58-16-8, +96 goal differential), the best players aren't always the best players, and frankly, **** happens. Injuries affect on-ice performance, sometimes the bounces just go against you, or sometimes every puck a player touches ends up in the back of the net. Part of what hockey is great for; it's unpredictable and back-and-forth and the best games come down to 1 goal - which could be a perfectly executed 3-on-1 or a greasy rebound that bounces off 3 legs in front.

Losing 3 games in a row, and losing the 4th game after holding a 3-0 lead with 46 minutes to go is just something that's almost equally likely as winning 3 games in a row - something those same Bruins did that year against Philadelphia.

If two teams are pretty equally matched (as Boston and Philadelphia were that year - they finished 3 points apart in the standings and 5 goals apart in differential), I don't see much of a difference between winning 3 in a row and losing 4 versus winning games 2, 4, and 6.

Five of those 7 games were decided by a single goal.

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06-10-2013, 01:44 AM
  #95
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Rask is the better goalie, Price is the better workhorse. Apples and oranges.

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06-10-2013, 06:33 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
Likely to... based on what? Can you name another goaltender whose career save percentage dropped that much after 5,000 shots?
Like I said before, unless Rask is by far the greatest goalie of the modern era, his save percentage will drop. Hope for that all you want but it's foolish.


Quote:
Similar in the sense that Price was incredible in his rookie year and has been very average in 4 of the 5 years since. Mason was just "very good" in his rookie year and has been awful since.
Price was very in 2011, last year and for the first part of this year. The drop in SV% last year had to do with the terrible team around him.



Quote:
I know Price has faced far more shots - and he's done a far worse job of stopping them. That's my point.

Rask has started 50 games since January 19th. In those 50 games he has a save percentage of 0.934.

Carey Price seasons with 50+ games:
2007-2008, 40 reg season + 11 playoff starts, 0.916sv%
2008-2009, 49 reg season + 4 playoff starts, 0.904sv%
2010-2011, 70 reg season + 7 playoff starts, 0.924sv%
2011-2012, 65 reg season starts, 0.916sv%

So, in his first and only season of 50+ starts, Rask has been significantly better than Price has ever been in his "workhorse" seasons.
Once again, you completely ignore games played. It's so much easier for Rask to put up good numbers because

1. Hes played on a better team his whole career.
2. For most of his seasons hes only had to play every other game which gives him the benefit of rest and likely his coach would put him against easier opponents as he's the back-up.

Quote:
I think the odds that Rask is somehow physically incapable of playing 65+ games are much smaller than the odds are that Price will magically start consistently pitching elite seasons in net.. but that's just me.
I can't think of previous examples of goalies like Rask and Schneider so I think we'll have to see how they both do.


Quote:
Rask had a 0.938sv% at even strength this year... That's pretty insane and approaching Tim Thomas' modern-day record of 0.941. I don't think he'll maintain that because I don't think any goaltender can. However, I would bet strongly that Rask outplays Price in at least 4 of the next 5 seasons, 2 or 3 times by a significant margin.
Well I guess we'll just have to see what happens.

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06-10-2013, 11:56 AM
  #97
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Just so much blind homerism in this thread. Habs fans will throw Price under the bus on their own board (rightfully so, he hasn't lived up to expectations) but will defend him vehemently when others are commenting on him. The "Don't talk about my mama" syndrom.

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06-10-2013, 11:57 AM
  #98
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Tooooooooka

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06-10-2013, 12:12 PM
  #99
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Rask now, then, forever.

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