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What Do You Think That MacT Can Get In Return For Hemsky And Horcoff?

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Old
06-08-2013, 06:43 PM
  #76
Red Deer Rebel
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Excellent post, now I wouldn't say that Horcoff is < all of those players, but relative to production vs. pay I'd say that list is bang on.
There isn't a player on that list that I wouldn't take straight across for Horcoff. Who would you turn down if they were offered in a trade?

Posters here who concede Horcoff 'has a lousy contract, but is a good player' don't even understand the process. The only thing we have is the contract, and that is what we are looking to trade. Furthermore, Horcoff isn't considered a 'good player' by any credible hockey people, only fringe media like Lowetide and his gaggle of followers.

Bob McKenzie stated Horcoff has no value, and the Oilers will likely have to buy him out in order to get him off the books. Bob McKenzie is credible, talks to hockey people all the time, and knows the business.

MacT has set himself up for failure in implying Horcoff has value, and he will be traded. Shawn Horcoff's contract represents negative value, so logic suggests the only thing we will get in return is an equally worthless contract with negative value. In other words, somebody else's garbage for our garbage.

Personally, I think Horcoff will be here again next year, or will be bought out. The teams looking to make cap floor are a small possibility, but Horcoff would have to include them on his list of 10 teams.

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06-08-2013, 06:44 PM
  #77
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I say we trade Horcoff to one of the cap teams for a 7th and a new puppy for Yak. If we can get a 2nd, or say add Anaheims 2nd with Hemsky and get someone like Clutterbuck for Hemsky I'd be thrilled.

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06-08-2013, 06:45 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
I say we trade Horcoff to one of the cap teams for a 7th and a new puppy for Yak. If we can get a 2nd, or say add Anaheims 2nd with Hemsky and get someone like Clutterbuck for Hemsky I'd be thrilled.
well, what kind of puppy are we talking here?

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06-08-2013, 06:48 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Red Deer Rebel View Post
There isn't a player on that list that I wouldn't take straight across for Horcoff. Who would you turn down if they were offered in a trade?

Posters here who concede Horcoff 'has a lousy contract, but is a good player' don't even understand the process. The only thing we have is the contract, and that is what we are looking to trade. Furthermore, Horcoff isn't considered a 'good player' by any credible hockey people, only fringe media like Lowetide and his gaggle of followers.

Bob McKenzie stated Horcoff has no value, and the Oilers will likely have to buy him out in order to get him off the books. Bob McKenzie is credible, talks to hockey people all the time, and knows the business.

MacT has set himself up for failure in implying Horcoff has value, and he will be traded. Shawn Horcoff's contract represents negative value, so logic suggests the only thing we will get in return is an equally worthless contract with negative value. In other words, somebody else's garbage for our garbage.

Personally, I think Horcoff will be here again next year, or will be bought out. The teams looking to make cap floor are a small possibility, but Horcoff would have to include them on his list of 10 teams.
Horcoff isn't coming back to Edmonton. Mact has already implied that Horc has asked out, and already has his house up for sale.

I agree he won't return anything in trade, but he'll be bought out with a compliance buyout.

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06-08-2013, 06:53 PM
  #80
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I think Horcoff ends up in Montreal and have no reason why

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06-08-2013, 06:55 PM
  #81
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Considering the kind of dough they just gave Gonchar, would Dallas be a potential destination for Hemsky?


Trevor Daley


Ales Hemsky

That would seriously add some toughness on the backend. And unlike Mark Fistric, Daley can actually play a little.

As for Horcoff, he'd be a valued addition to teams like Detroit, Philadelphia, Phoenix, etc at a $2.5M pricetag.

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06-08-2013, 07:30 PM
  #82
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I would like to see actual NHLers in return for both players. I think draft picks are overrated during the draft and they shouldn't be moved at that time. Instead a week or two after free agency starts would be the best time to move them after a few teams strike out on coveted players. Id like a 3rd line checker or vet D for Horc and a top 9 power forward type or a top 4 D for hemmer.

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06-08-2013, 08:16 PM
  #83
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Horcoff:
If we're not paying out any of his contract: Anything
If we're paying part of his contract: Barkov + 10 first rounders/ Fire Mac-T
If we're buying him out: Happy time!

Hemsky:
If we're not paying out any of his contract: 2nd rounder
If we're paying part of his contract: 3rd line center better than Horcoff or a really good 3rd line winger. (Would love Clutterbuck.)
If we're buying him out: Epic fail. Fire Mac-T.

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06-08-2013, 08:20 PM
  #84
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These are not easy contracts to move so really effects the return. Obviously we get nothing for Horc. Oilers would be pleased for a club to take the contract.

Hemsky to the right team has some value.

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06-08-2013, 08:29 PM
  #85
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If the Flyers can dump the Carter and Richards contracts I don't see why Horcoff can't be moved. Don't forget the Canadiens took on Gomez's contract a couple years ago and his is even worse.

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06-08-2013, 08:44 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
If the Flyers can dump the Carter and Richards contracts I don't see why Horcoff can't be moved. Don't forget the Canadiens took on Gomez's contract a couple years ago and his is even worse.
Umm that is because Richards and Carter are younger and significantly better than Horcoff. Also when Gomez was traded to Montreal he was also significantly better than Horcoff is now. Ridiculous comparisons.

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06-08-2013, 08:51 PM
  #87
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Umm that is because Richards and Carter are younger and significantly better than Horcoff. Also when Gomez was traded to Montreal he was also significantly better than Horcoff is now. Ridiculous comparisons.
Their contracts are also stupidly long. And "significantly" better? Like 2 million dollars more with more years better?

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06-08-2013, 08:56 PM
  #88
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What about Hemsky to Ottawa for Peter Wiercoth (sp) or Eric Grybra. I know they are both D-men, bet they are big.

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06-08-2013, 09:00 PM
  #89
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well, what kind of puppy are we talking here?
It would have to be something fluffy and cute I'm sure. Lets say a Havanese?

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06-08-2013, 09:06 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
Their contracts are also stupidly long. And "significantly" better? Like 2 million dollars more with more years better?
Richards makes 250k more than Horcoff, and is a top 5 two way forward in the league.

Carter makes 250k less than Horcoff, former 40 goal scorer, and would be a big, first line center on a significant portion of the teams in the NHL.

Both are significantly superior players to Horcoff on what have become value contracts.

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06-08-2013, 09:07 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
Richards makes 250k more than Horcoff, and is a top 5 two way forward in the league.

Carter makes 250k less than Horcoff, former 40 goal scorer, and would be a big, first line center on a significant portion of the teams in the NHL.

Both are significantly superior players to Horcoff on what have become value contracts.
I was talking about Gomez on the second part, yo.

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06-08-2013, 09:10 PM
  #92
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MacTavish is delusional to think either of these guys have any value.

Hemsky is a luxury item for a team that can afford to live without him for stretches - Havlat like. What does a team give up to get him? Little.

Horcoff is no longer capable of playing in the NHL. His sole value is for a team to get to the cap floor and keep him for a spare part.

In the opinion of die hard Oiler fans - what makes MacTavish qualified to be a GM?

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06-08-2013, 09:14 PM
  #93
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I was talking about Gomez on the second part, yo.
The point was they were not hard contracts to move, wasn't even referencing Gomez.

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06-08-2013, 09:15 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by PanniniClaus View Post
MacTavish is delusional to think either of these guys have any value.

Hemsky is a luxury item for a team that can afford to live without him for stretches - Havlat like. What does a team give up to get him? Little.

Horcoff is no longer capable of playing in the NHL. His sole value is for a team to get to the cap floor and keep him for a spare part.

In the opinion of die hard Oiler fans - what makes MacTavish qualified to be a GM?
You apparently don't know much about hockey if you think Horcoff isn't capable of playing in the NHL anymore. He's vastly overpaid yes. But as a 2 million/year 3rd/4th line center that kills penalties, he's more than serviceable. It won't be some bottom barrel team that grabs him after he's bought out (which is what's going to end up happening, because his contract has negative value) it will be a team like Detroit, Pittsburgh or Montreal. And he will do well in those places.

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06-08-2013, 09:17 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
Their contracts are also stupidly long. And "significantly" better? Like 2 million dollars more with more years better?
And when Richards/Carter start to not be worth their contracts they will be bought out/retire, and that is still many years away.

And when Gomez went to Montreal he was still 60 point/season center. Horcoff has 46 points in his last 122 games, about a 30 point/season pace so yeah Gomez was significantly better when he was traded. And when Gomez started reaching Horcoff levels of suck he was bought out.

Furthermore MacT has publicly stated that Horcoff should move on. That tends to lower any asking price when the GM is actively admitting they don't want the player around next year.

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06-08-2013, 09:20 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by PanniniClaus View Post
In the opinion of die hard Oiler fans - what makes MacTavish qualified to be a GM?
Same thing that qualifies anyone for a job with the Oilers organization - being friends with Katz or Lowe

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06-08-2013, 09:29 PM
  #97
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Could we trade Col Hemsky 50% retained for John Mitchell for 3rd line C? Just wondering if it is a viable option. He'd seems like a solid 3C.

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06-08-2013, 09:30 PM
  #98
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hemsky wont get us much value in return, hopefully a horcoff replacement. horcoff i think will be bought out

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06-08-2013, 09:30 PM
  #99
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Oilers will have to keep most of their cap hits to trade them, not interested , I'd rather buy them out

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06-08-2013, 09:33 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Staple says the isles will not have trouble reaching the cap floor. So, no interest in paying Horcoff $4m.
There's a chance, albeit a fairly small one, that some team out there that isn't worried about hitting the salary cap would actually be willing to pay Horcoff $4M, $3M for what he is. I mean it's still an over payment, but only slightly. Honestly if he were a UFA I think he'd command $6M/2 years so if centres are in demand... it's possible.

Not likely, but possible. It's certainly an opportunity for MacT to show some flash by making something happen.

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