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What Do You Think That MacT Can Get In Return For Hemsky And Horcoff?

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Old
06-08-2013, 09:39 PM
  #101
aleshemsky83
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So a quick scan of capgeek says we can only keep half the cap hit of a deal maximum.

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06-08-2013, 09:42 PM
  #102
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If the Oilers retain salary, I think Horcoff is moveable.

Hemsky is moveable, but the return should be a lot better if they retain salary.

Hopefully the team won't have to use compliance buyouts on either, but if they do, my money is on Horcoff.

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06-08-2013, 10:06 PM
  #103
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Can't see us getting fair value for Ales. Shawn is untradeable. I wouldn't trade the stick boy for Shawn

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06-08-2013, 10:21 PM
  #104
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Regardless of the negative comments regarding both players, MacT's reasoning for moving them still maintains some validity. The past for seasons the Edmonton Oilers SUCKED. If that didn't have an effect on either of those players then they must be made of steel.

And I'm certain that all HF opinions aside, some NHL pro scouts believe that both of these players are still serviceable forwards at the a NHL level. Their contracts are the only thing complicating their potential trades.

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06-08-2013, 10:42 PM
  #105
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They made a good point tonight on hotstove, and that is the limited NTC on Horc's deal. He can give a list of 10 teams he will accept a trade to, and Friedman believes these would only be contenders. The only team I can think of that would be on that list that could actually use him is Detroit, but we would definitely have to eat some of the contract. My suggestion:

To DET: Horcoff (2 mil retained)

To EDM: Bertuzzi

Gives us size and a veteran presence, he has 1 yr left at a little more than 2 mil. I suppose some would prefer the compliance buyout, but I've always been a Bert fan.

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06-08-2013, 10:45 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleshemsky83 View Post
Oilers will have to keep most of their cap hits to trade them, not interested , I'd rather buy them out
I think you wait till the very last day of compliance buyouts to buy out Hemsky. If there are too many good options out there for fill some of our needs then you buy out Hemsky. If there's not enough out there for Mac-T to feel confident about being able to land us players that will make an impact via free agency then you hold onto Hemsky and try to trade him.

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06-08-2013, 11:28 PM
  #107
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Leafs have cap space, would pain me to see this but my thinking

Gagner and Hemsky
for
Phaneuf and something else

#7 to Philly
for
Courturier

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06-08-2013, 11:44 PM
  #108
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While I agree Horcoff has zero value and will be bought out. Hemsky in my opinion could hold some value. He's still an injury risk with a 5 mill contract but he could be a good reclamation project.


I would be trying to get the oilers to eat some salary and try him out under Trotz in Nashville if I was Poile. Ales can still manufacture goals from individual efforts and that will always have value. He's been stuck in our gong show his whole career and a new start combined with a healthy year could potentially put him back over 60 points. He's fun to watch which must carry some value in Nashville too.

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06-09-2013, 12:27 AM
  #109
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I think Horcoff ends up in Detroit and Hemsky ends up in Carolina or Boston.

I do think Edmonton could avoid going the buy-out route here in both cases. I guess we'll wait and see.

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06-09-2013, 12:44 AM
  #110
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I don't see Horcoff bringing anything, buy him out and move on. Hemsky should get us at least a 2nd round pick or similar value player. example:.Martin Havlat, David Booth, Ryan Malone, ect.

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06-09-2013, 01:12 AM
  #111
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Horcoff at 3M and 2M (ie Oil retain 1M per remaining year) is maybe worth a 3rd round pick to a team like the Sharks, who could use a 3rd line checking C. Oil would maybe need to eat a 2M buyout player like O'Sullivan was for Phoenix?

Detroit...maybe if they lose Filppula?

TO, if they lose Bozak?

The most realistic teams are unlikely his top choices (NYI, Florida, Phoenix, imo).

Hemsky... He doesn't have a NTC. Isles, Panthers, Pens if they lose Dupuis and others will have some interest.

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Old
06-09-2013, 01:22 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
If the Flyers can dump the Carter and Richards contracts I don't see why Horcoff can't be moved. Don't forget the Canadiens took on Gomez's contract a couple years ago and his is even worse.
I have no idea what you are trying to convey with this post. Richards is one of the most effective centers in the entire league. Horcoff not so much.

Theres nothing wrong with Carter or Richards contract and these being players that are of considerable value.

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06-09-2013, 01:24 AM
  #113
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And when Richards/Carter start to not be worth their contracts they will be bought out/retire, and that is still many years away.

And when Gomez went to Montreal he was still 60 point/season center. Horcoff has 46 points in his last 122 games, about a 30 point/season pace so yeah Gomez was significantly better when he was traded. And when Gomez started reaching Horcoff levels of suck he was bought out.

Furthermore MacT has publicly stated that Horcoff should move on. That tends to lower any asking price when the GM is actively admitting they don't want the player around next year.
It seems nobody has focused on this. To be succinct many of MacT's comments since taking management have been blatantly stupid and devaluing players that are presumably on the trading block.

I mean why say that about a player you want to deal? Makes zero sense.

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06-09-2013, 02:00 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
It seems nobody has focused on this. To be succinct many of MacT's comments since taking management have been blatantly stupid and devaluing players that are presumably on the trading block.

I mean why say that about a player you want to deal? Makes zero sense.
For Horcoff, I don't see it as something unusual. He is a guy with limited trade value, so you co-opt both he and his agent as additional parties in trying to find a deal. And a deal is better than buying him out. Both from Katz's pocket book stand point and in trying to find a way to ease Horc out of the organization in a less damaging way then a number of other past situations.

For Hemsky, it may be a similar thing, though I don't believe a buy out is as likely. It may be his way of saying we are open for business. Including the type of deals the organization turned down in the past for this player.

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06-09-2013, 02:07 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Mowzie View Post
I think Horcoff ends up in Detroit and Hemsky ends up in Carolina or Boston.

I do think Edmonton could avoid going the buy-out route here in both cases. I guess we'll wait and see.
^i was thinking almost the same...Horcoff in Detroit seems almost a natural...he seems like a Wings kind of player, works hard, good defensively, wins a lot of faceoffs and can still pot a few points, and Hemsky in Boston to play alongside Krejci seems a nach as well. too bad Boston's 1st rounder is gone though, and i have no idea what we could get from these 2 teams for these 2 players?

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06-09-2013, 02:12 AM
  #116
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Teams I could see being interested in Horcoff (especially if the Oilers eat some salary):

- NY Islanders - team is losing money and has a lot of cap space, could use more of a veteran presence, Horcoff's contract could actually be attractive to them because of the difference between actual salary and cap hit

- Winnipeg - lots of cap room, only one C under contract next year (Jokinen- although Little is sure to be retained). If they trade Burmistrov, Horcoff would fit in nicely as the 3rd/4th line C

- New Jersey - if they lose Clarkson, they'll need another C behind Zajac and Henrique. Lots of cap room (although they have a lot of holes to fill), but they seem to have an internal budget which makes Horcoff's contract attractive.

- Phoenix - If the Coyotes lose Gordon/Chipchura, Horcoff would be attractive here considering the team is on an internal budget (making Horcoff's cap hit attractive - especially if the Oilers agree to eat some salary)

- Dallas - the team's Cs are Eakin, Garbutt, Fiddler, and Wandell. If they miss out on the centers in FA, they're going to need a C badly.

- Detroit - Horcoff would fit in well as their 3rd/4th line C, but I only see him going to the Wings if the Oilers buy him out/retain a substantial portion of his salary.

Teams I could see being interested in Hemsky:

- Winnipeg - lots of cap room, and the team is going to need a top 6 RW to pair with Wheeler (who's a RFA) if Antropov leaves through FA.

- Ottawa - lots of cap room and the team needs to replace Alfredsson

- Columbus - enough cap space, and a serious need for a 2nd line RW behind Gaborik

- Nashville - might be a bit too expensive for Nashville's budget, but the team needs offensively talented wingers in the worst way

- Dallas - cap space, and in need a top 6 RW

- Detroit- not ideal cap-wise, but they have a massive hole at RW and Hemsky could be lethal playing with Datsyuk/Zetterberg

- Colorado - lots of cap space, the team is going to be in a different division, and the team could use a RW to replace Hejduk (who's likely retiring).

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06-09-2013, 02:29 AM
  #117
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I do not understand why MacT would discuss on the air about moving their Oiler veterans such as their captain and assist. capt so nonchalantly. Sure the team played poorly this year and the two aforementioned vets' plays were not up to par but I believe they should have been discussed behind closed doors. By now, they should have earned some level of respect and professionalism given all their time here. The team does need veteran leadership going into the future. I would hang on to Horcoff as a third line centre. Buying him off would show the young guns about Oilers management has selective loyalty and only Smyth will be the chosen one to stay. After all, we do need a centre given our frequent injuries at that position and Horc is virtually untradeable with his contract and age. Let's not make this a 3 ring circus, a little professionalism is needed. MacT maybe the polar opposite of Tambo when it comes to revealing press conferences. Well that is my 2 cents worth...

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06-09-2013, 04:49 AM
  #118
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I do not understand why MacT would discuss on the air about moving their Oiler veterans such as their captain and assist. capt so nonchalantly. Sure the team played poorly this year and the two aforementioned vets' plays were not up to par but I believe they should have been discussed behind closed doors. By now, they should have earned some level of respect and professionalism given all their time here. The team does need veteran leadership going into the future. I would hang on to Horcoff as a third line centre. Buying him off would show the young guns about Oilers management has selective loyalty and only Smyth will be the chosen one to stay. After all, we do need a centre given our frequent injuries at that position and Horc is virtually untradeable with his contract and age. Let's not make this a 3 ring circus, a little professionalism is needed. MacT maybe the polar opposite of Tambo when it comes to revealing press conferences. Well that is my 2 cents worth...
Hate to break it to you, but if Mact's term as coach is any indication, then we'll know exactly what Mact thinks about virtually everything going forward. The man has no filter when he gets talking to the media, once even stating on live national television that a 30 year old center on pace for a 36 point season was a legitimate candidate for the Canadian Olympic men's hockey team.

The days of the Oilers GM playing international hockey man of mystery are over.

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06-09-2013, 08:39 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
It seems nobody has focused on this. To be succinct many of MacT's comments since taking management have been blatantly stupid and devaluing players that are presumably on the trading block.

I mean why say that about a player you want to deal? Makes zero sense.
Yes, because their values were sky high before the comments

If a GM didn't know these players were available for scraps then he is worse than Tambo. Hemsky might fetch a 2nd rder. If the Oil ask for more than that, I'm sure the team inquiring would settle for Havlat, whom the Sharks would cough up for a late 2nd/3rd. Horcoff has a limited NTC and can list 10 teams, all while having one of the worst cap hits in the league for what he brings.

This isn't a Ferrari that has an engine with a slight miss that MacT disclosed while putting it on the market, this is a Kia held together with duct tape.

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06-09-2013, 09:39 AM
  #120
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The buyout window will be pre-draft, and teams out of the playoffs can make deals now. If Horcoff isn't gone by mid buyout window, the paperwork will be ready to go. He's gone.

Hemsky, I think MacT waits until after free agency to move him.

When is Horcoff's list supposed to be submitted? If I were him and his agent, I would much prefer a buy out and then sign a 1.5M deal with Detroit, NYI, NYR, SJ or other teams that would have interest at that dollar amount.

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06-09-2013, 09:48 AM
  #121
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Buy out window ends June 30.

Horcs no move clause ends July 1.

Horcs 10 team list will be submitted June 30 midnight.

Horc isn't being bought out, nor is Hemsky. You guys know how often we look at other teams players thinking oooh he could work despite sucking on his current team? Other teams do the same.

If Horc was a free agent he would get 2-2.5 Million at least, as the free agent crop is non existant. He would have a number of suiters at that price I'd suspect.

So if we can retain some salary or cap and give him at that price we'll get something, maybe minor, maybe a bad contract, but we'll get something.

Same with Hemmer.

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06-09-2013, 09:55 AM
  #122
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I dont see any trades where draft picks are the main pieces we get back. Teams arent going to be giving up much in the way of draft picks this season and with the cap drop most deals will match almost dollar for dollar so what we are likely to see are trades for someone elses overpriced third liners. Guys who can hopefully still play but might have been replaced by someone younger and cheaper.

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06-09-2013, 10:30 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
It seems nobody has focused on this. To be succinct many of MacT's comments since taking management have been blatantly stupid and devaluing players that are presumably on the trading block.

I mean why say that about a player you want to deal? Makes zero sense.
I don't understand the people arguing this. Everyone knew MacT was a huge Horcoff fan - and who knows, maybe there was a GM somewhere who thought I wouldn't mind having him despite his salary, or an owner looking to reach the cap floor saw his contract and thought "sweet - $4M bonus, I might take that". Who knows.

Their value was not that high to begin with. And you can argue that there's not much he could have said to lower it any. But I don't think anyone can argue that he increased their value. Best case it did nothing to their value. Worst case, it let a GM who was maybe prepared to give a little something up for one of them decide that he could now give a little less.

I just don't see the upside of saying what he did about those players. Let the media and fans speculate.

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06-09-2013, 10:34 AM
  #124
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Yes, because their values were sky high before the comments

If a GM didn't know these players were available for scraps then he is worse than Tambo. Hemsky might fetch a 2nd rder. If the Oil ask for more than that, I'm sure the team inquiring would settle for Havlat, whom the Sharks would cough up for a late 2nd/3rd. Horcoff has a limited NTC and can list 10 teams, all while having one of the worst cap hits in the league for what he brings.

This isn't a Ferrari that has an engine with a slight miss that MacT disclosed while putting it on the market, this is a Kia held together with duct tape.
heh, I enjoyed your post and laughed with you on that. Sure, I see your point.

But any used car trader worth his salt tells you about the performance still in the package.

You don't state that the things an edsel and ready for the scrap heap.

It would be quite easy actually to paint Hemsky as a potential productive player who's numbers have fallen off ONLY due to lower rung minutes and line use here. I could see some offensively challenged clubs perking up more at that. To say that these two players are conditioned losers doesn't exactly promote kicking tires.

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06-09-2013, 10:35 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Valic View Post
Buy out window ends June 30.

Horcs no move clause ends July 1.

Horcs 10 team list will be submitted June 30 midnight.

Horc isn't being bought out, nor is Hemsky. You guys know how often we look at other teams players thinking oooh he could work despite sucking on his current team? Other teams do the same.

If Horc was a free agent he would get 2-2.5 Million at least, as the free agent crop is non existant. He would have a number of suiters at that price I'd suspect.

So if we can retain some salary or cap and give him at that price we'll get something, maybe minor, maybe a bad contract, but we'll get something.

Same with Hemmer.
At first glance I thought the same thing (hence my Detroit for Bertuzzi suggestion), but upon further review the buyout makes the most sense. Why eat part of the contract AND take a poor one in return, screwing up your salary structure, when you can just use the compliance buyout and have an extra 5.5 mil in cap space for the next 2 years? Yes, the UFA market looks a little thin, but there are plenty of teams that need to get under the cap that will be shopping players for picks. Look at a team like Boston. They are at 60 million (though that should be 56 million after Savard's LTIR) and need to re-sign Rask and Horton, as well as round out their roster (2 depth F, 1 depth D, backup). One, if not both of Boychuk and Peverley will be made available. I'd much rather have one of those guys than another team's bad contract AND part of Horc's cap hit.

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