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Old
06-09-2013, 08:50 AM
  #151
Scarecrow Boat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemQ View Post
Il bet whatever you want to bet that wont happen. There are a few things you dont understand.

1. The league wants/needs Roy in the league.
2. The player has publicly stated he wants to play in the league.
3. This is not a Mac situation - this player wants to finish his school in quebec. He would not report in halifax or Moncton either.

I guarantee you the team does not care about the compensation picks. If they keep him until sept to get the picks, then they cant trade him until xmas. And i thought they only get the picks if they relinquish the players rights??
I like how you're telling me I don't understand when you don't understand the situation

Posted last night:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by hab 4ever View Post
They will only get a top-5 pick if they don't trade Roy and he re-enters. And regardless of compensation pick, they traded a lot of value for Bell, regardless of how high Iam on him. Not the best asset management...
Either your confused or reporters & I am confused.

Best English article I could find was CB Post (Obviously I guess but sadly I didn't look their first )

Quote:
If Roy doesn’t report, the Screaming Eagles would receive the No. 5 overall pick in the 2014 draft as compensation. If they trade him between Sept. 5-15, 2013, Cape Breton would still receive next year’s No. 5 pick, as well as the last pick of the second round in 2014, along with whatever assets they would acquire in a trade.
1. There's a trade window in September - pretty sure Dumont actually traded his first round pick last season around that time for a 1st & 2nd round pick

2. Why wouldn't they care about a 5th overall pick + 39th overall pick? Who in their right mind is thinking, 5th overall? pfffffft who needs it! Hopefully nobody with a job in the league lol

3. MacKinnon would have reported to Quebec so I don't fully understand the point. + Nicolas Roy was drafted by a team that has produced a number of scholastic players of the year if anything that's the one Maritime he should want to report to, but at the end of the day the schooling is a convenient excuse.


You could make every guarantee you want, you have no control over this situation so it's irrelevant. I've acknowledged numerous times that this could work out and that Dumont could pull off a move that gives him a boatload of assets but you refuse to acknowledge any risk in this & the fact that this is going to lead to 4 months of CB fans *****ing about the #1 pick not reporting

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06-09-2013, 08:54 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by localfan View Post
Here's a kind off topic question for those in the know...

When do teams start to make any phone calls looking for players as a "walk-on" tryout? They might have their eye on players, but didn't have enough draft picks to use on them but they are interested in their play...
if you're looking for a walk-on tryout, call the teams, tell them how bad you want to go and make their team. I know a couple of guys who have gotten tryouts by calling the scouts or general managers themselves.

shawn thornton called every team in the ahl looking for a tryout a few years ago. he could soon win his third Stanley cup ring.

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06-09-2013, 08:55 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Hockey Buff View Post
Should I trademark that....
That description is priceless!! Having slid to 50th and not a "team of choice", im sure is humbling for him. Two yrs ago many people were saying he was possibly the best 97 in the world. He has an opportunity to prove the scouts wrong. Its in his control now

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06-09-2013, 09:09 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Hockey Buff View Post
Should I trademark that....
Yes... yes you should!

It's probably the best way to describe him and I can think of dozens of other kids I could label with that. It's likely in my vocabulary for a while, I'll send you royalties

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06-09-2013, 09:22 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
if you're looking for a walk-on tryout, call the teams, tell them how bad you want to go and make their team. I know a couple of guys who have gotten tryouts by calling the scouts or general managers themselves.

shawn thornton called every team in the ahl looking for a tryout a few years ago. he could soon win his third Stanley cup ring.
Thank you for this more informative post. Considering the previous poster who replied to my post gave a not-very-helpful answer, I appreciate this reply much more

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06-09-2013, 09:45 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
Yes... yes you should!

It's probably the best way to describe him and I can think of dozens of other kids I could label with that. It's likely in my vocabulary for a while, I'll send you royalties
Lol....

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06-09-2013, 10:16 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
I like how you're telling me I don't understand when you don't understand the situation

Posted last night:

1. There's a trade window in September - pretty sure Dumont actually traded his first round pick last season around that time for a 1st & 2nd round pick

2. Why wouldn't they care about a 5th overall pick + 39th overall pick? Who in their right mind is thinking, 5th overall? pfffffft who needs it! Hopefully nobody with a job in the league lol

3. MacKinnon would have reported to Quebec so I don't fully understand the point. + Nicolas Roy was drafted by a team that has produced a number of scholastic players of the year if anything that's the one Maritime he should want to report to, but at the end of the day the schooling is a convenient excuse.


You could make every guarantee you want, you have no control over this situation so it's irrelevant. I've acknowledged numerous times that this could work out and that Dumont could pull off a move that gives him a boatload of assets but you refuse to acknowledge any risk in this & the fact that this is going to lead to 4 months of CB fans *****ing about the #1 pick not reporting

Have you ever sat in those meetings? Owner, GM, head scout...
Headscouts figure who the best players are. GM's determine what the most pressing needs are - such as goalie, fwd, dman or best player available.
The owner can override any of those. Example - BAC did not want to draft MAC. The owner told the staff they were drafting mac.

Roy is completely different. He is not ashamed to have been chosen by cbse, he went up, put the sweater on, did all the things a first pick does. MAC did not even talk to BC once.

Two things are going to happen:

1. They will trade him before camp, because the owner decides he wants players in the line up this year, and/or he doesnt believe Roy would report in 2014.

2. They keep him because they know he will report in 2014, or they call his bluff and wait him out.

Either way, the compensation picks dont come in play. Thats not the best way for them to maximize his value. Keep in mind they only get those picks if they forfeit his rights. They can get much more than a 5 and 39 for him in a trade.
How fans perceive that is not their concern. Building the best team is their concern.

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06-09-2013, 12:01 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemQ View Post
Have you ever sat in those meetings? Owner, GM, head scout...
Headscouts figure who the best players are. GM's determine what the most pressing needs are - such as goalie, fwd, dman or best player available.
The owner can override any of those. Example - BAC did not want to draft MAC. The owner told the staff they were drafting mac.

Roy is completely different. He is not ashamed to have been chosen by cbse, he went up, put the sweater on, did all the things a first pick does. MAC did not even talk to BC once.

Two things are going to happen:

1. They will trade him before camp, because the owner decides he wants players in the line up this year, and/or he doesnt believe Roy would report in 2014.

2. They keep him because they know he will report in 2014, or they call his bluff and wait him out.

Either way, the compensation picks dont come in play. Thats not the best way for them to maximize his value. Keep in mind they only get those picks if they forfeit his rights. They can get much more than a 5 and 39 for him in a trade.
How fans perceive that is not their concern. Building the best team is their concern.
So are you saying the article is wrong? (Also a bunch of other articles that say the exact same thing - about how if the Eagles trade Roy in that Sept 5 - 15 window they get those 2 compensation picks + whatever they get in the trade)

I'm tired of talking about this with you. You refuse to acknowledge any type of risk involved in this (granted you said they might not trade Roy and get him to report in 2014 - which is a huge risk because you picked #1 overall and for an entire year don't reap any type of benefit from the pick), you resort to saying stuff like "ARE YOU IN THE MEETINGS?!?!" like the fanboys that say "HAVE YOU SEEN HIM PLAY?!?!" when talking about individual players and you want to cling on to this fantasy that MacKinnon and Roy didn't do the same thing - end of the day they're dictating where they're going to play their major junior career.

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Old
06-09-2013, 12:03 PM
  #159
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Who would pay the most for him ?

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06-09-2013, 12:07 PM
  #160
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Also, if someone from Sydney could confirm this it'd be perfect, but I'm almost 100% sure that there is a French school (elementary - junior high - high school) within sight of the rink in Sydney it's not like he's going somewhere where there is no french education options. I'm certain CB with their education track record could easily fulfill any of Nicolas Roy's education needs. It's a weak cop-out imo, he just doesn't want to play in the Maritimes






Edit:

Oh look:
Quote:
"If nothing changes before next year, I'll just look at my options at that time," Roy said. "It's not just a question of my education, it's also a 25-hour drive from my home. I don't think I will change my mind."
http://thechronicleherald.ca/sports/...VIYr2I.twitter

So education was the first excuse but it's actually the location even after he's finished high school lmao


Last edited by Scarecrow Boat: 06-09-2013 at 12:22 PM.
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06-09-2013, 12:34 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
Also, if someone from Sydney could confirm this it'd be perfect, but I'm almost 100% sure that there is a French school (elementary - junior high - high school) within sight of the rink in Sydney it's not like he's going somewhere where there is no french education options. I'm certain CB with their education track record could easily fulfill any of Nicolas Roy's education needs. It's a weak cop-out imo, he just doesn't want to play in the Maritimes
This is all correct. The french school, which has all of elementary, junior high, high school, is about 2 minutes away from Centre 200.

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06-09-2013, 03:25 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
Also, if someone from Sydney could confirm this it'd be perfect, but I'm almost 100% sure that there is a French school (elementary - junior high - high school) within sight of the rink in Sydney
You do know the education system in Quebec is not the same as NS, right?

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06-09-2013, 03:32 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by VanNistelrooy View Post
You do know the education system in Quebec is not the same as NS, right?
Means nothing. I know people who went to play Midget Hockey in Nova Scotia and did so while attending University lmao - anything can be reviewed by school boards and place kids where they should be in their education Systems. Kids who move from Ontario to a province like Nova Scotia can be bumped up a grade because in Ontario they start school at 4 as opposed to 5 in Nova Scotia

The point was, he could go to an all-french school with french students and do his studies with french speaking teammates through the teams education program. It's nothing out of the ordinary at all really.

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06-09-2013, 06:02 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by hab 4ever View Post
Not to mention 4 LSL Espoir players got picked: Sprong, Dove-McFalls, Lalonde and Butler

Could not really talk about de MAAA players from LSL. Can tell you that Fournier is a good two way foward.

For the LSL espoir player:

Sprong: He was just too good to play in espoir this year. Record high in point. Was dominating on the ice and was not even going 100% IMO. Personally im really high on im and i think hes SURELY top3 in this draft regard to offensive skills (Dont wanna say hes numbers one cause dont want to have rocks throw at me haha).

Butler: Hes a really good offensive defensemen. Really good first pass and vision, he have a hell of a wrist shot, have been feeding sprong all year. I think is defensive play could be better, sometime hes really to soft in the corner, wich does not help im cause is size is just ok.

McFalls: I dont have seem a lot from im since he have been injured this season. He has a good size, i think he can become a player ta contribute in the three zones. Definitly have offensive upside, but he was palying with a team really to strong for the league this year.

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06-09-2013, 07:05 PM
  #165
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I figured it was just delayed yesterday but did Baie-Comeau forfeit the 2nd last pick in the draft? How lazy

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06-09-2013, 07:08 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
I figured it was just delayed yesterday but did Baie-Comeau forfeit the 2nd last pick in the draft? How lazy
They probably had the maximum number of players on their reserve list.

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06-09-2013, 07:24 PM
  #167
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They probably had the maximum number of players on their reserve list.
Unacceptable - we were going to have 2 straight years with no forfeits

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06-09-2013, 09:48 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Cedream View Post
Could not really talk about de MAAA players from LSL. Can tell you that Fournier is a good two way foward.

For the LSL espoir player:

Sprong: He was just too good to play in espoir this year. Record high in point. Was dominating on the ice and was not even going 100% IMO. Personally im really high on im and i think hes SURELY top3 in this draft regard to offensive skills (Dont wanna say hes numbers one cause dont want to have rocks throw at me haha).

Butler: Hes a really good offensive defensemen. Really good first pass and vision, he have a hell of a wrist shot, have been feeding sprong all year. I think is defensive play could be better, sometime hes really to soft in the corner, wich does not help im cause is size is just ok.

McFalls: I dont have seem a lot from im since he have been injured this season. He has a good size, i think he can become a player ta contribute in the three zones. Definitly have offensive upside, but he was palying with a team really to strong for the league this year.
Not a bad assessment of each guy but McFalls was healthy all year except the last month causing him to miss the playoffs and dodge cup. His injury cost his team the playoffs and a chance to have a good run at the didge cup. He was far and away the teams best all around player. Hockey Sense, strong skater, great vision, team guy, rocket shot, very responsible.

Sprong, nothing more to be said, his offensive talent is all that and a bag of chips. His D zone needs LOTS of work.

Butler, his size on D doesnt help him but he's great with the puck and has lightning quick speed. Yes he can improve his Dzone but he doesnt put his team in trouble

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06-09-2013, 10:17 PM
  #169
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Thunderbolt, yes I'm from the area.

Which players in particular do you wish to know about?

I can only speak for having seen Butler play, at a summer tournament a few months back, I didn't see any other Espoir players.

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06-10-2013, 08:21 AM
  #170
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Are any of their drafted Americans that good ?
The kids they drafted are OK. Maletesta is solid. A few others are projects. The question then becomes: is it better to draft kids that are OK that are more likely to report? or better kids that are unlikely to report?

White and Burke won't go up north.

I would hope to see Hanafin and Eichel up there for a year, but who knows.

My guess is that Askew is the only top 97 that will report this year. He has changed teams every year for a while now. De-committed from Northeastern and switched to BU.

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06-10-2013, 08:55 AM
  #171
ClemQ
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They probably had the maximum number of players on their reserve list.
thank you. at least some people know what they are talking about

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06-10-2013, 11:40 AM
  #172
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So are you saying the article is wrong? (Also a bunch of other articles that say the exact same thing - about how if the Eagles trade Roy in that Sept 5 - 15 window they get those 2 compensation picks + whatever they get in the trade)

I'm tired of talking about this with you. You refuse to acknowledge any type of risk involved in this (granted you said they might not trade Roy and get him to report in 2014 - which is a huge risk because you picked #1 overall and for an entire year don't reap any type of benefit from the pick), you resort to saying stuff like "ARE YOU IN THE MEETINGS?!?!" like the fanboys that say "HAVE YOU SEEN HIM PLAY?!?!" when talking about individual players and you want to cling on to this fantasy that MacKinnon and Roy didn't do the same thing - end of the day they're dictating where they're going to play their major junior career.
your taking such a negative approach to this whole situation. Think about it....what's the absolute worst thing that could happen? The worst case scenario.

The worst case scenario would be for him to not report, never report and they are not able to trade him and he decides to go the college route. Cap Breton walks away with a 5th overall pick and 39th overall pick as compensation. Do you agree that's the worst case scenario?

I assume you will agree. Now, moving forward - The player has stated he wants to play in the LHJMQ. What do you think the odds are he can't be traded? Do you really (honestly) think that's something that could happen? Do you really think only one team would be interested and they will not want to offer anything of significance for him because Cap Breton will be receiving compensation picks if the trade is done in a certain period?

I personally think Cape Breton did the right thing. This kid was the concensus #1 pick, and has potential to play in the NHL at 18 or 19. They will spend the summer trying to convince him to report. There will come a point where, if the family decides their final answer is that he will not report, the team will then spend it's energy trying to get the most as possible for the player. I would be surprised if the player is not at training camp in mid august. It might not be in CB, but i would be shocked if he's not somewhere in camp. If he's not traded by then, its because CB have some indication that there is still a chance he will report at some point.

If your a CB fan, could you not live with those possible scenarios?

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06-10-2013, 01:23 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by ClemQ View Post
your taking such a negative approach to this whole situation. Think about it....what's the absolute worst thing that could happen? The worst case scenario.

The worst case scenario would be for him to not report, never report and they are not able to trade him and he decides to go the college route. Cap Breton walks away with a 5th overall pick and 39th overall pick as compensation. Do you agree that's the worst case scenario?

I assume you will agree. Now, moving forward - The player has stated he wants to play in the LHJMQ. What do you think the odds are he can't be traded? Do you really (honestly) think that's something that could happen? Do you really think only one team would be interested and they will not want to offer anything of significance for him because Cap Breton will be receiving compensation picks if the trade is done in a certain period?

I personally think Cape Breton did the right thing. This kid was the concensus #1 pick, and has potential to play in the NHL at 18 or 19. They will spend the summer trying to convince him to report. There will come a point where, if the family decides their final answer is that he will not report, the team will then spend it's energy trying to get the most as possible for the player. I would be surprised if the player is not at training camp in mid august. It might not be in CB, but i would be shocked if he's not somewhere in camp. If he's not traded by then, its because CB have some indication that there is still a chance he will report at some point.

If your a CB fan, could you not live with those possible scenarios?



I acknowledged two days ago that there was potential for something significantly positive to come from this if all the chips fall into place - all I'm saying is there's huge risk involved and you still don't seem to acknowledge it.

You think a 5th overall pick & 39th overall pick is fair value if Roy decides to bail? I'd say no, seeing as there were players similar to his skill (you can say consensus #1 but it's not near the gap CB is making it sound like).

You can't ignore the risks just because there could be potential positives. I acknowledged the potential positives loooooooooooooong ago you just refuse to read my posts through 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemQ View Post
thank you. at least some people know what they are talking about
The sarcasm was obviously missed - I figured saying "how lazy" would replace the sarcasm button but I guess not. No need to be so smug.



On another note, I'm a bit confused about the compensation now because I've seen dozens of articles that state that if Roy is traded between Sept 5-15th CB gets the #5 & #38 picks + whatever they get in the trade. Others have said it's not the case and that's only if he doesn't report and they release his rights (I donno how a #5 is compensation for a #1 not reporting but ok. Then articles are still being printed with that original info in it that if he's traded in that window they still get the compensation.

Can anyone clarify with a reliable source?

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06-10-2013, 02:04 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post


I acknowledged two days ago that there was potential for something significantly positive to come from this if all the chips fall into place - all I'm saying is there's huge risk involved and you still don't seem to acknowledge it.

You think a 5th overall pick & 39th overall pick is fair value if Roy decides to bail? I'd say no, seeing as there were players similar to his skill (you can say consensus #1 but it's not near the gap CB is making it sound like).

You can't ignore the risks just because there could be potential positives. I acknowledged the potential positives loooooooooooooong ago you just refuse to read my posts through 100%


The sarcasm was obviously missed - I figured saying "how lazy" would replace the sarcasm button but I guess not. No need to be so smug.



On another note, I'm a bit confused about the compensation now because I've seen dozens of articles that state that if Roy is traded between Sept 5-15th CB gets the #5 & #38 picks + whatever they get in the trade. Others have said it's not the case and that's only if he doesn't report and they release his rights (I donno how a #5 is compensation for a #1 not reporting but ok. Then articles are still being printed with that original info in it that if he's traded in that window they still get the compensation.

Can anyone clarify with a reliable source?
I dont know, but my understanding is that they only get the compensation if the relinquish that player's rights.

And, I enjoy discussing those things with you back and forth - so lets just agree to disagree on the whole CB/Roy issue

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06-10-2013, 03:15 PM
  #175
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Thanks,

Interesting, we see some different things. You mentioned Watt was a lesser version then Fortier. I find from what I saw that they are completely different players. Fortier is quick and offensive but not a two way guy. However, when he is on, he could dominate because he has the puck all the time when he is on.. And Watt is pretty slow, speed is not his strength. Decent defensively, but if he does not score he can disappear in a game a little. I saw them both in chateauguay at the all star tournament and that is what I saw.

I also saw Kosik and Davies in that same tournament. I thought Davies was a good puck moving defenseman WITH GREAT HANDS. Kosik was clearly the fastest guy in the tournament or one of them for sure. Surprising you say not much after his speed because the first game I saw he scored 2 shorthanded goals in one period because of his break away speed and he actually forchecked and was quite physical. But less physical than Watt.

I agree with your assessment on Fournier.

Hey, they all got drafted so they all bring more than one good thing.

At this tournament I also noticed they all were character guys, which is very important. anyway, thought it was worth bringing these guys up since they all got drafted from same midget team. Curious as to why the team did not do well in the playoffs.
Davies has great hands and is a great skater, he sometimes try to do too much and loses it.

Kosik as a whole never really impressed me.

Watt's a grinder, he's a poor man's Fortier.

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