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Old
06-09-2013, 12:18 PM
  #26
EarlGrey
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Originally Posted by Vinegar Strokes View Post
We'll have to agree to disagree. #1 defenders aren't available often (probably isn't even available). You do what you have to do in order to get them. A late first will be just another drop in the bucket that is our extremely deep prospect pool.

At some point, we need to start using these assets, we won't have a team filled with prospects.
I think this team has done well recently with late 1st rounders. So I am curious to find out whom they would pick this year.

We have no need to trade a 1st line FW and a 1st runder for one year of a 1D. We are not all in. We are not build to win next season nor will any moves be made to do so. Bob Murray is a patient guy so he will wait for Fowler or Vatanen to be that #1 guy on our defense.

Trading Ryan & a 1st for an unsigned Letang is a desperation move and we are not in desperation mode.

PS: Speaking of all in - Pittsburgh is in win now mode. I highly doubt there is any talk about moving Letang this summer unless he tells them he has no intention of re-signing next summer, like Staal did.

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06-09-2013, 12:24 PM
  #27
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The Letang situation is very iffy as of now. Pens are very high on Bennett.

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06-09-2013, 12:26 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Vinegar Strokes View Post

As for Vatanen, I think he's untouchable in Bob Muray's eyes and will be untouchable to our fan base by the mid point of next season. He's going to be a monster offensively, while providing adequate 2nd pairing defense.
Come on you can't be serious. Vatanen is not untouchable despite what crazed fans think. Especially when you are talking about getting a player like Letang in return. Smh

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06-09-2013, 12:38 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
Come on you can't be serious. Vatanen is not untouchable despite what crazed fans think. Especially when you are talking about getting a player like Letang in return. Smh
When I say untouchable, I mean it would take severe overpayment to acquire them. There's really only 2-3 untouchable players in the league, if even that.

I think GMBM is a lot higher on Vatanen than the naysayers on our board. I've been pumping his tires for years and I'm not going to stop now. Him and Gibson have been the two guys I've been making huge predictions for, and I think they're both going to prove me right.

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06-09-2013, 12:48 PM
  #30
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i am not giving up gibson, and if i were to go after a #1 then I'd go after a different style of #1, we don't need letangs offensive ability, what we need if we go for a #1 is a guy like a pietrangelo, a stud right hand shot who is a 2-way d-man.
letang's defense in his own zone as a comparison to other #1's in the league nullifies this trade for me.
I'd give up that exact package for a pietrangelo though, although I'd really want to swap gibson for something else, whether it be a first or some other prospect/roster player

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06-09-2013, 12:57 PM
  #31
EarlGrey
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Originally Posted by bumperkisser View Post
i am not giving up gibson
Why would anyone? The kid is a stud. I have no clue why the Ducks should even entertain the idea of trading Gibson. We have goaltending depth yes, but nobody is as promising as Gibson.

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06-09-2013, 01:09 PM
  #32
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For some reason a small handful of Duck fans have decided Vatanen walks on water. This idea was started by a troll who has continued to be allowed to fester on our board like a bad infection. Sami may or may not become a top NHL talent but it is far from a given at this point in time. He has done nothing to date to indicate he can play solid NHL D. Time will tell but he has not yet shown that he can be any more than a bottom pairing PP specialist.

That said, I'd do Ryan + Vatanen for Letang.

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06-09-2013, 01:10 PM
  #33
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There is just no reason to do this from a Ducks POV. Let Vatanen and Gibson develop...they're going to be key pieces to the team in a couple years I think.

Ryan should be moved in a separate deal

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06-09-2013, 01:12 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
For some reason a small handful of Duck fans have decided Vatanen walks on water. This idea was started by a troll who has continued to be allowed to fester on our board like a bad infection. Sami may or may not become a top NHL talent but it is far from a given at this point in time. He has done nothing to date to indicate he can play solid NHL D. Time will tell but he has not yet shown that he can be any more than a bottom pairing PP specialist.

That said, I'd do Ryan + Vatanen for Letang.
I wouldn't. Letang isn't signed past next year, and I have my doubts we'd be able to re-sign him. You really want to give up our future PP QB (Who is getting better every game), and our most valuable trading chip for one year of Kris Letang? I'd much rather do a deal around Ryan for Edler

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06-09-2013, 01:17 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
For some reason a small handful of Duck fans have decided Vatanen walks on water. This idea was started by a troll who has continued to be allowed to fester on our board like a bad infection. Sami may or may not become a top NHL talent but it is far from a given at this point in time. He has done nothing to date to indicate he can play solid NHL D. Time will tell but he has not yet shown that he can be any more than a bottom pairing PP specialist.

That said, I'd do Ryan + Vatanen for Letang.
That is even worse asset management than Ryan + 1st for Letang. If Letang walks in 2014, you will have lost 1 year of Ryan and 2 ELC years for Vatanen, who may or may not become a solid Top 4 defenseman. In that situation you will have to replace Ryan, Letang and Vatanen.
And Letang doesn't make the Ducks a contender, especially not with Ryan gone. That trade is a downgrade of the Ducks team and a shortsighed one at that.

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06-09-2013, 01:17 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
For some reason a small handful of Duck fans have decided Vatanen walks on water. This idea was started by a troll who has continued to be allowed to fester on our board like a bad infection. Sami may or may not become a top NHL talent but it is far from a given at this point in time. He has done nothing to date to indicate he can play solid NHL D. Time will tell but he has not yet shown that he can be any more than a bottom pairing PP specialist.

That said, I'd do Ryan + Vatanen for Letang.
False. You've only been around for a year, but I've been saying Vatanen will be a top end offensive defensemen since 2010.

This has nothing to do with new hype, it has everything to do with what I've seen of him over the last 3 years.

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06-09-2013, 01:20 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Malkin112 View Post
To Pittsburgh :
Ryan
Vatanen
Gibson

To Anaheim :
Letang(signed) + Bennett/despres

Pens need elite winger for Crosby, good PPQ and future number one Goalie

Is this fair deal, thoughts?
If they kept Letang they wouldn't nee a PPQ.

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Old
06-09-2013, 01:27 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by DuckNoire View Post
That is even worse asset management than Ryan + 1st for Letang. If Letang walks in 2014, you will have lost 1 year of Ryan and 2 ELC years for Vatanen, who may or may not become a solid Top 4 defenseman. In that situation you will have to replace Ryan, Letang and Vatanen.
And Letang doesn't make the Ducks a contender, especially not with Ryan gone. That trade is a downgrade of the Ducks team and a shortsighed one at that.
No deal is a sure thing. If Bobby is still with the Ducks in 2 years does anybody think he won't walk anyway? Sure, if Sami does walk on water then, oops, bad deal. If he flounders on defense and gives up as many goals as he scores then no big loss. Maybe Letang walks? Yeah, maybe. But maybe Getz and Perry walk last year, but they didn't. ANA may not be every UFA's first choice but it seems guys that play here like it and aren't looking to just get away from here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinegar Strokes View Post
False. You've only been around for a year, but I've been saying Vatanen will be a top end offensive defensemen since 2010.

This has nothing to do with new hype, it has everything to do with what I've seen of him over the last 3 years.
If you have then I will gladly exclude you from the others. But honestly, the whole fiasco with eenok has put this topic totally out of control.

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Old
06-09-2013, 01:29 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkin112 View Post
To Pittsburgh :
Ryan
Vatanen
Gibson

To Anaheim :
Letang(signed) + Bennett/despres

Pens need elite winger for Crosby, good PPQ and future number one Goalie

Is this fair deal, thoughts?
That's pretty fair although Gibson's stock is pretty high right now. Pitt may have to add more.

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Old
06-09-2013, 01:35 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
If you have then I will gladly exclude you from the others. But honestly, the whole fiasco with eenok has put this topic totally out of control.
I agree, but I've been a "crazed Vatanen fan" since the beginning. I've only been this high on 3 of our prospects since I started following prospects more closely (about 2007). The other 2 are Fowler and Gibson.

I guess we'll see in a few years if I have a good eye or not.

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Old
06-09-2013, 01:40 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Vinegar Strokes View Post
I agree, but I've been a "crazed Vatanen fan" since the beginning. I've only been this high on 3 of our prospects since I started following prospects more closely (about 2007). The other 2 are Fowler and Gibson.

I guess we'll see in a few years if I have a good eye or not.
I hope you're right (assuming we do keep him ). I just wish the topic could be discussed in a rational manner on our own board. Ugh.

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06-09-2013, 01:53 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
No deal is a sure thing. If Bobby is still with the Ducks in 2 years does anybody think he won't walk anyway? Sure, if Sami does walk on water then, oops, bad deal. If he flounders on defense and gives up as many goals as he scores then no big loss. Maybe Letang walks? Yeah, maybe. But maybe Getz and Perry walk last year, but they didn't. ANA may not be every UFA's first choice but it seems guys that play here like it and aren't looking to just get away from here.
Bobby will walk I am certain of that. But even if, we still have him for 2 years as opposed to 1 year of Letang.
Nobody claims Vatanen walks on water. But right now he looks pretty good and I expect him to be at least a top 4 guy. Personally I think he will outplay Fowler in 2-3 years. Better offense, more battle in him. But even if he only pans out to be a bottom pairing guy, he still is very good on the PP. As of right now I'd rather trade Lindholm. I don't like his concussion history.

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06-09-2013, 01:55 PM
  #43
Vinegar Strokes
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I hope you're right (assuming we do keep him ). I just wish the topic could be discussed in a rational manner on our own board. Ugh.
These boards have been taken over by meme lovers who speak in absolutes, think the louder they yell, the more meaningful their opinion is.

It's not just our board, it's the entire HF community.

It's sad that logical analysis is met with, "lolz you're a ****** BRO." But that's the state of the vocal majority these days.

I just hate to be lumped in with that crowd, because I'm extremely high on a prospect. I've been high on him for a long time and have never wavered from that stance.

Here's hoping the kid proves me right.

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06-09-2013, 02:11 PM
  #44
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Gibson's a non-starter in just about any proposal in my opinion. His value to the Ducks is far higher than his actual value right now, which is already pretty high to begin with.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a situation where it would be logical for us to deal Gibson right now.

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06-09-2013, 02:37 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Vinegar Strokes View Post
False. You've only been around for a year, but I've been saying Vatanen will be a top end offensive defensemen since 2010.

This has nothing to do with new hype, it has everything to do with what I've seen of him over the last 3 years.
I find it hard to believe you've seen any more of Vatanen than anyone else unless you travel to Finland on the daily or get a Finnish TV feed (highly unlikely but i'm sure you'll say yes. lol)

We all have seen his WJC highlights and his youtube videos along with his AHL play.

Anyhow, wether you like Letang or not, he still is a top offensive defenseman right now, and is miles better than Vatanen. He's only 26, helps your team out today, and the future. Vatanen is a maybe in this league. How Vatanen became some super hero is astonishing to me. Hell, I like Sami and think he has excellent potential as well. However, i'm also not stopping a deal acquiring a proven elite offensive defenseman who still is young because you have a kid that you hope one day will equal the play of Letang.

Now to the OP. Would I personally do the proposed deal? No, but it's not because Vatanen is in it either.

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Old
06-09-2013, 02:50 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
I find it hard to believe you've seen any more of Vatanen than anyone else unless you travel to Finland on the daily or get a Finnish TV feed (highly unlikely but i'm sure you'll say yes. lol)

We all have seen his WJC highlights and his youtube videos along with his AHL play.

Anyhow, wether you like Letang or not, he still is a top offensive defenseman right now, and is miles better than Vatanen. He's only 26, helps your team out today, and the future. Vatanen is a maybe in this league. How Vatanen became some super hero is astonishing to me. Hell, I like Sami and think he has excellent potential as well. However, i'm also not stopping a deal acquiring a proven elite offensive defenseman who still is young because you have a kid that you hope one day will equal the play of Letang.

Now to the OP. Would I personally do the proposed deal? No, but it's not because Vatanen is in it either.
Agreed. Good post.

People saying they wouldn't give up Vatanen to get Letang are absolutely crazy. Letang is miles better than Vatanen right now, and more than likely always will be.

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Old
06-09-2013, 02:50 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
I find it hard to believe you've seen any more of Vatanen than anyone else unless you travel to Finland on the daily or get a Finnish TV feed (highly unlikely but i'm sure you'll say yes. lol)

We all have seen his WJC highlights and his youtube videos along with his AHL play.

Anyhow, wether you like Letang or not, he still is a top offensive defenseman right now, and is miles better than Vatanen. He's only 26, helps your team out today, and the future. Vatanen is a maybe in this league. How Vatanen became some super hero is astonishing to me. Hell, I like Sami and think he has excellent potential as well. However, i'm also not stopping a deal acquiring a proven elite offensive defenseman who still is young because you have a kid that you hope one day will equal the play of Letang.

Now to the OP. Would I personally do the proposed deal? No, but it's not because Vatanen is in it either.
What are you even talking about? I never said I've watched Vatanen a ton, I've watched him about as much as someone from the states possibly could, but no more than that.

I'm saying that from what I've seen, he's going to be a dominant player and I've been saying that for awhile. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I think, we'll see if I'm right before too long.

Letang is definitely a better player, but the difference from Ryan's value and Letang's value is NOT Vatanen.

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06-09-2013, 03:18 PM
  #48
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Letang is definitely a better player, but the difference from Ryan's value and Letang's value is NOT Vatanen.
It's probably more.

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Old
06-09-2013, 07:14 PM
  #49
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If I were the Ducks GM I would not even bother to respond. Horrible deal. Gibson's value is at a high right now and we are counting on him in the future. We don't have anyone with that potential in our prospect pool, so that is a no.
Also I am not high on trading Vatanen. I am confident he will make Fowler expendable in the future as he has better offense and better compete level.

I'd do Ryan for Letang and even things out with draft picks.
I don't see any evidence Vatanen has a better compete level. None at all.

As for Vatanen's offense vs. Fowler, that wouldn't make him expendable at all. Fowler is better defensively(significantly so) and he's the better puck mover. Sami and Fowler would never be competing for the same spot. Cam has blossomed into a two-way defenseman, who was getting top pairing responsibilities this season. Not to mention he's younger than Sami.

If we could lock up Letang long-term, I'd be willing to move Sami for him in a heartbeat. Letang's current level of play is basically what we'd hope Sami could reach... if we were dreaming and pretending Sami maxed out his potential. I'd take Depres/Bennett out of the deal, and remove Gibson as well. It might take some tweaking after that, but Andersen is an excellent goalie prospect as well.

I also agree with Newfie that the difference between Ryan and Letang, right now, is probably more than Vatanen. Not a lot more, but enough that we'd need to make some adjustments. It isn't, however, so much more that Anaheim would throw Gibson into the deal.

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Old
06-09-2013, 07:18 PM
  #50
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No thanks..

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