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Habs' off-season moves (all trades, proposals & free agent talk here) V

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Old
06-16-2013, 08:04 PM
  #726
Whitesnake
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Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
It would make a costly 4th line and he play a soft brand of hockey. He's a very intelligent and usefull player, but I don't see the fit when looking for the team needs.
Surround him with 2 tougher wingers.

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Old
06-16-2013, 08:15 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
It would make a costly 4th line and he play a soft brand of hockey. He's a very intelligent and usefull player, but I don't see the fit when looking for the team needs.
who would you rather sign as your 4th line center? it doesnt really get any better than gordon, he adds so much depth. physically he can more than hold his own and all you have to do is surround with 2 tough wingers, we already have 1 in prust

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06-16-2013, 08:16 PM
  #728
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[QUOTE=Rosso Scuderia;67564039]Who the **** is rating him over here? He had a rough year we all know that but Gorges was a fan favorite until he got a his contract.

Funny how one bad season and now he's too old and beat up... but this happened a ****ing year ago.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1137167

10 blocked shots, 6 hits, 26 minutes of ice time and 1st star of the game. 1 year ago. 1 bad 48 games season and now he's a piece of **** that we should get rid of asap? You guys are pretty funny.



It means nothing for you because you don't like him but you gotta earn that ''A'' from your teammates not HFboards member so who cares if doesn't mean anything for you but clearly, it does for his teammates.[/QUOTe

I am rating him as overated dont give a crap what anyone says

at 4 mil I expect more than what he brings to the table

he gives you zero offence

he is not a thumper

he is not an intimidator

he is an average skater

he isnt a puck mover

he doesnt make a solid first pass out of the zone

how many games does he stand out in a year ?


so he blocks a few shots so what , so did Hall Gill but at least he was a solid penalty killer and had the reach of of Chara .

cmon he is what he is , a 4 million dollar third pairing guy on a great team or a 4 on a porous d like ours , a replaceable player

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Old
06-16-2013, 08:27 PM
  #729
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I've said it once and I'll say it again. We're a team in development, most long term needs will be addressed in the draft. As for holes in the lineup, we're looking at this:

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Gallagher

Bourque - Plekanec - Gionta

Galchenyuk - Eller - XXXXXX

Prust - XXXXXX - White/Moen


Gorges - Subban

Markov - XXXXXX/Tinordi

Bouillon - Diaz


EX: Drewiske


The key is to not look too far into this, in managements mind this is the last year to evaluate our roster. With guys like Markov and Gionta coming off of the books, next offseason will be where you see real SIGNIFICANT moves. Making any move now that involves key guys (Pacioretty, Price, Subban, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Tinordi, etc.) would simply be stupid. This team needs to grow together, there is no quick fix to what Bergevin was left with and he will fix this team the correct way, that being through the draft or making moves to make us better for years to come and avoiding the short term fix.

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Old
06-16-2013, 08:29 PM
  #730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
It would make a costly 4th line and he play a soft brand of hockey. He's a very intelligent and usefull player, but I don't see the fit when looking for the team needs.
Can we stop with this pick toughness above all mentality? Gordon is one of the best 4th line centers that will give us one of the best center lineups in the NHL. I still maintain that being strong up the middle and on defense is how you win championships in this league. I for one would be very happy with that signing, Moen will turn it around and if he does

Gio-Pleks-Bourque
Galch-Eller-Gally
Patches-DD-Moen/Kristo?
White-Gordon-Prust

Subban-Tinordi/UFA
Markov-Emelin
Diaz-Gorges
Drewskie
Weber/Kabs

I know everyone would lose their **** if this happens but I think it would be a strong and balanced lineup. I would love to complement that lineup with a guy like Bickell but frankly I would rather hold on for a year and go all out in 2014. By then our offensive depth will catch up and we will be ready to do some real damage.

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Old
06-16-2013, 08:32 PM
  #731
TT1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habiton View Post
Can we stop with this pick toughness above all mentality? Gordon is one of the best 4th line centers that will give us one of the best center lineups in the NHL. I still maintain that being strong up the middle and on defense is how you win championships in this league. I for one would be very happy with that signing, Moen will turn it around and if he does

Gio-Pleks-Bourque
Galch-Eller-Gally
Patches-DD-Moen/Kristo?
White-Gordon-Prust

Subban-Tinordi/UFA
Markov-Emelin
Diaz-Gorges
Drewskie
Weber/Kabs

I know everyone would lose their **** if this happens but I think it would be a strong and balanced lineup. I would love to complement that lineup with a guy like Bickell but frankly I would rather hold on for a year and go all out in 2014. By then our offensive depth will catch up and we will be ready to do some real damage.
wtf bro we definitely cant start the season without signing a top 9 forward, and even if we dont prust would be in our top 9.. not moen
finding a good top 9 forward + 4th line center are necessities. finding a solid d-man(i.e: fistric) and a good 4th line winger(i.e: jones) are bonuses which would improve our depth and our chances in the playoffs.. but yea theyre not necessities


Last edited by TT1: 06-16-2013 at 08:42 PM.
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Old
06-16-2013, 08:38 PM
  #732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habiton View Post
Can we stop with this pick toughness above all mentality? Gordon is one of the best 4th line centers that will give us one of the best center lineups in the NHL. I still maintain that being strong up the middle and on defense is how you win championships in this league. I for one would be very happy with that signing, Moen will turn it around and if he does

Gio-Pleks-Bourque
Galch-Eller-Gally
Patches-DD-Moen/Kristo?
White-Gordon-Prust

Subban-Tinordi/UFA
Markov-Emelin
Diaz-Gorges
Drewskie
Weber/Kabs

I know everyone would lose their **** if this happens but I think it would be a strong and balanced lineup. I would love to complement that lineup with a guy like Bickell but frankly I would rather hold on for a year and go all out in 2014. By then our offensive depth will catch up and we will be ready to do some real damage.
I'm sure this team would do well in the regular season, but come playoff time, I don't see it stacking up against other premier teams in the East (nevermind our own Division next year).

I don't know if toughness is what we need, but we can't go into next season with 90% of the same lineup and expect different results. Again, this is year 2 in the rebuild/retool, so I'm not expecting drastic changes.

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Old
06-16-2013, 08:45 PM
  #733
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I'd do it....people underestimate faceoffs so badly....ESPECIALLY with a team that isn't physical enough to get possession of the puck AFTER they lost it.
Does it really work that way.

The Habs this season were mediocre on both toughness and faceoffs and were one of the league's top puck possession squads.

When you get down to it, I'd say toughness is pretty marginal at getting the puck back too. That's far more about stick skills and skating than grinding it out. And faceoff skills are so close from center to center and wins of such ephemeral value that they don't end up meaning that much either.

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Old
06-16-2013, 09:04 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Does it really work that way.

The Habs this season were mediocre on both toughness and faceoffs and were one of the league's top puck possession squads.

When you get down to it, I'd say toughness is pretty marginal at getting the puck back too. That's far more about stick skills and skating than grinding it out. And faceoff skills are so close from center to center and wins of such ephemeral value that they don't end up meaning that much either.
Again, the best mix you have, the greatest it is. When your skilled game doesn't work, let's grind it out. Besides, we all know that the regular season is a different season than the playoffs one....We still haven't proven that we have what it takes to bring it when it counts the most.

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Old
06-16-2013, 09:06 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
I'm sure this team would do well in the regular season, but come playoff time, I don't see it stacking up against other premier teams in the East (nevermind our own Division next year).

I don't know if toughness is what we need, but we can't go into next season with 90% of the same lineup and expect different results. Again, this is year 2 in the rebuild/retool, so I'm not expecting drastic changes.
I don't know if that's true. Boston is arguably the "toughest (aka dirtiest)" team in the league and we hand it to them most of the time. The trick is to continue to play your game and use your strengths which is something the Canadiens didn't do. What everyone needs to realize is that our team is still in the making, just look at our core pieces:

19 - Galchenyuk
20 - Beaulieu?
21 - Gally
21 - Tinordi
24 - PK
24 - Patches
25 - Price
27 - Emelin
30 - Pleks

And that's with leaving several important members of this team out. Our window of success isn't 1-3 years it's 10. We have a lot of something that very few have and that's TIME. Can we surround them with tough players? Sure, but will that make them the best? I guarantee not because looking at that list there is a lot of skill. You need to insulate it with guys who can keep up with them, toughness is just a bonus but it isn't a requirement. Chicago isn't tough, neither is Pittsburgh and out of the last 4 Stanley Cups the won two of them.

All I'm saying is that it's a work in progress but there are a few things we know now that can help us significantly in the future.

1) The 2014 UFA class is unreal, yes I know teams resign their guys blah blah but the cap is very low right now and a lot of teams aren't going to be able to commit.

2) What works with our core guys is speed and skill, if you can find fast, skilled and tough guys (Bickell) them I am all for it but if you think signing a pathetic excuse for a player like Shawn Thornton will help us then your a lost cause.

3) This team is very young and experience is king, we have a lot of good prospects knocking on the door so let's give them a shot and hopefully they succeed.

That's all I really have to say, frankly I hope not much changes this year for the above reasons and more that I'm too lazy to write down.

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Old
06-16-2013, 09:20 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by TT1 View Post
who would you rather sign as your 4th line center? it doesnt really get any better than gordon, he adds so much depth. physically he can more than hold his own and all you have to do is surround with 2 tough wingers, we already have 1 in prust
Gordon I fear he get like 2 millions a year, Lapierre could be nice and my first choice. Also, Chipchura, Craig Adams, Smithson, Adam Hall and Tim brent are all options IMO.

If Gordon could be sign at 1 million and we get a winger like Matt Martin or Cody Mcleod to help the 4th line that would be perfect.

Maybe waiting and seeing with White I like him as a center, but he lack consistency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habiton View Post
Can we stop with this pick toughness above all mentality? Gordon is one of the best 4th line centers that will give us one of the best center lineups in the NHL. I still maintain that being strong up the middle and on defense is how you win championships in this league. I for one would be very happy with that signing, Moen will turn it around and if he does

Gio-Pleks-Bourque
Galch-Eller-Gally
Patches-DD-Moen/Kristo?
White-Gordon-Prust

Subban-Tinordi/UFA
Markov-Emelin
Diaz-Gorges
Drewskie
Weber/Kabs

I know everyone would lose their **** if this happens but I think it would be a strong and balanced lineup. I would love to complement that lineup with a guy like Bickell but frankly I would rather hold on for a year and go all out in 2014. By then our offensive depth will catch up and we will be ready to do some real damage.
Come playoff time the same problems will be here.


If Bergevin can't get Bickell, Clarkson, Morrow, Clowe, Stalberg, Dupuis (if kind of cheap) on UFA market, I would like him to do trade for guys like David Moss or even better Tuomo Ruutu.


Last edited by Forsead: 06-16-2013 at 09:29 PM.
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Old
06-16-2013, 09:40 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post


It means nothing for you because you don't like him but you gotta earn that ''A'' from your teammates not HFboards member so who cares if doesn't mean anything for you but clearly, it does for his teammates.[/QUOTe

I am rating him as overated dont give a crap what anyone says

at 4 mil I expect more than what he brings to the table

he gives you zero offence

he is not a thumper

he is not an intimidator

he is an average skater

he isnt a puck mover

he doesnt make a solid first pass out of the zone

how many games does he stand out in a year ?


so he blocks a few shots so what , so did Hall Gill but at least he was a solid penalty killer and had the reach of of Chara .

cmon he is what he is , a 4 million dollar third pairing guy on a great team or a 4 on a porous d like ours , a replaceable player
Looks like someone can't make the difference between overrated and overpaid.

Yeah yeah.. Gorges is a piece of ****, good at nothing, no one in the league would take him at even 500k with all the flaws the he has right?

Yes Gorges is a little bit overpaid.. but it doesn't mean he's a bad player like you seem to think. Put him on waivers and every team that has cap space will gladly take him. You seem to have very short memories, Gorges was pretty good for us in the last 4-5 years despite being simply a defensive defenseman.

You're acting ridiculous by discrediting the importance of a block shot. Watch how well the Bruins are blocking shots in the series, makes Rask life much easier. Any goalie will appreciate a defenseman blocking 250 shots a season for him like Gorges did. You can hate all you guy want but don't try to discredit him in what he does well.

Gorges is a warrior and you never have too much of those.

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Old
06-16-2013, 09:51 PM
  #738
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Iginla-Pleks-Bourque
Dupuis-Eller-Gally
Patches-Galch-Bickel
Moen-White-Prust

Subban-Scuderi
Markov-Emelin
Diaz-Gorges
Drewskie

Gionta is on IR for better part of season and by the time he comes off There s always another injury. DD is traded, there s enough teams looking for an offensive center. Eller and Galch when given the opportunity during the season that they could do the job. Kaberle is bought out. so with these moves 5 for Gio 3.5 for DD 4.25 for Kaberle and with the 4.7 in cap space we currently have gives us a little over 17 m to spend. Iginla - 4 m Dupuis 3.25 m Bickell 3.5 m and Scuderi at about 4 m leaving about 2 m of cap space.

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Old
06-16-2013, 10:06 PM
  #739
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Again, the best mix you have, the greatest it is. When your skilled game doesn't work, let's grind it out. Besides, we all know that the regular season is a different season than the playoffs one....We still haven't proven that we have what it takes to bring it when it counts the most.
Well put. It's a matter of balance. If a team is too bent towards one aspect, chances are it won't be able to be competitive when it matters. One thing is certain, it takes certain types of players to be successful in the playoffs and this year has shown that we are lacking in that regard.

Those who say Moen can be the guy and only had a bad season, think again. He has a history of toning down and disappearing for extended periods, avoiding physical confrontation against tough opponents and generally not playing the physical style that is expected of him consistently. Remember reading while he was with the Sharks, how they had noticed the same flaws he exhibited with us this past season -- and yet, despite having Dudley as an advisor as well as a host of savvy and multiple hockey people on board, we still managed to grant the guy a 4-year deal.

The sooner we can unload him, the better -- if we can get a decent draft pick out of him this year, we'll be correcting a huge mistake.

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Old
06-16-2013, 10:06 PM
  #740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsrule22 View Post
Iginla-Pleks-Bourque
Dupuis-Eller-Gally
Patches-Galch-Bickel
Moen-White-Prust

Subban-Scuderi
Markov-Emelin
Diaz-Gorges
Drewskie

Gionta is on IR for better part of season and by the time he comes off There s always another injury. DD is traded, there s enough teams looking for an offensive center. Eller and Galch when given the opportunity during the season that they could do the job. Kaberle is bought out. so with these moves 5 for Gio 3.5 for DD 4.25 for Kaberle and with the 4.7 in cap space we currently have gives us a little over 17 m to spend. Iginla - 4 m Dupuis 3.25 m Bickell 3.5 m and Scuderi at about 4 m leaving about 2 m of cap space.
Patches a 3rd liner and tinordi not even on the team? On top of that, I highly doubt the Habs all of a sudden decide to rush Galchenyuk into a role he's obviously not ready for yet after they just extended DD. sorry but me thinks not.

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Old
06-16-2013, 10:09 PM
  #741
Habiton
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
I'm sure this team would do well in the regular season, but come playoff time, I don't see it stacking up against other premier teams in the East (nevermind our own Division next year).

I don't know if toughness is what we need, but we can't go into next season with 90% of the same lineup and expect different results. Again, this is year 2 in the rebuild/retool, so I'm not expecting drastic changes.
I don't know if that's true. Boston is arguably the "toughest (aka dirtiest)" team in the league and we hand it to them most of the time. The trick is to continue to play your game and use your strengths which is something the Canadiens didn't do. What everyone needs to realize is that our team is still in the making, just look at our core pieces:

19 - Galchenyuk
20 - Beaulieu?
21 - Gally
21 - Tinordi
24 - PK
24 - Patches
25 - Price
27 - Emelin
30 - Pleks

And that's with leaving several important members of this team out. Our window of success isn't 1-3 years it's 10. We have a lot of something that very few have and that's TIME. Can we surround them with tough players? Sure, but will that make them the best? I guarantee not because looking at that list there is a lot of skill. You need to insulate it with guys who can keep up with them, toughness is just a bonus but it isn't a requirement. Chicago isn't tough, neither is Pittsburgh and out of the last 4 Stanley Cups the won two of them.

All I'm saying is that it's a work in progress but there are a few things we know now that can help us significantly in the future.

1) The 2014 UFA class is unreal, yes I know teams resign their guys blah blah but the cap is very low right now and a lot of teams aren't going to be able to commit.

2) What works with our core guys is speed and skill, if you can find fast, skilled and tough guys (Bickell) them I am all for it but if you think signing a pathetic excuse for a player like Shawn Thornton will help us then your a lost cause.

3) This team is very young and experience is king, we have a lot of good prospects knocking on the door so let's give them a shot and hopefully they succeed.

That's all I really have to say, frankly I hope not much changes this year for the above reasons and more that I'm too lazy to write down.

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Old
06-16-2013, 10:15 PM
  #742
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Looks like someone can't make the difference between overrated and overpaid.

Yeah yeah.. Gorges is a piece of ****, good at nothing, no one in the league would take him at even 500k with all the flaws the he has right?

Yes Gorges is a little bit overpaid.. but it doesn't mean he's a bad player like you seem to think. Put him on waivers and every team that has cap space will gladly take him. You seem to have very short memories, Gorges was pretty good for us in the last 4-5 years despite being simply a defensive defenseman.

You're acting ridiculous by discrediting the importance of a block shot. Watch how well the Bruins are blocking shots in the series, makes Rask life much easier. Any goalie will appreciate a defenseman blocking 250 shots a season for him like Gorges did. You can hate all you guy want but don't try to discredit him in what he does well.

Gorges is a warrior and you never have too much of those.
A Warrior who doesn't excel at a single thing deserves a 6 year contract? It's a terrible contract and we have the Ghost to thank for that.

there isn't a single Bruins dman that ONLY blocks shots... so I'm not sure what you're getting at. Except for Chara, they all make less than Gorges.

6/4M for blocking shots.

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06-16-2013, 10:17 PM
  #743
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What about Tyson Strachan? He is a physical defensive Dman who played ~19 minutes for the panthers last year per game. Might be a good pickup.

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06-16-2013, 10:29 PM
  #744
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What about Tyson Strachan? He is a physical defensive Dman who played ~19 minutes for the panthers last year per game. Might be a good pickup.
He tends to lose every fight he takes part of... if fighting would be all that he contributes, I'd want him to be good at it.

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06-17-2013, 12:44 AM
  #745
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Are there any logical destinations other than St Louis (value seems to be one of Stewart/Berglund/Perron and a 2nd) for Plekanec? I'm not really in the trade Plek camp, we're better with him than without... but am still interested in what deals might be out there. If a win-now team is willing to give up a good, younger player for him, it would make for a fun discussion. Definitely not for a draft pick though.

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06-17-2013, 01:08 AM
  #746
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Are there any logical destinations other than St Louis (value seems to be one of Stewart/Berglund/Perron and a 2nd) for Plekanec? I'm not really in the trade Plek camp, we're better with him than without... but am still interested in what deals might be out there. If a win-now team is willing to give up a good, younger player for him, it would make for a fun discussion. Definitely not for a draft pick though.
anaheim doesnt have a 2nd line C so a deal for bobby ryan makes sense, we would have to add tho. a 1st rounder would do it imo


Last edited by TT1: 06-17-2013 at 01:13 AM.
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06-17-2013, 01:25 AM
  #747
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im trying to hustle stewart + a 1st rounder for plek, internet warz

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Old
06-17-2013, 01:47 AM
  #748
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im trying to hustle stewart + a 1st rounder for plek, internet warz
once you've agreed to it, dont forget to send it to Blues management office!

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06-17-2013, 02:25 AM
  #749
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no worrys i have Doug Armstrong on speed dial

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Old
06-17-2013, 02:28 AM
  #750
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figure i'd put my money where my mouth is

personally, i wouldn't do anything. no signings, no trades. i wouldn't overpay for anybody because what we need isn't available anyways and we are not in any posistion to start going gainey/gauthier again and start loading the roster with overpaid, mediocre UFAs.

well maybe not entirely true, i'd actively try to shop moen. if no offer good enough come around, keep him and take the best offer come trade deadline because you know teams will kill for a guy like that - especially if he has a good season.

i'd quietly start to shop desharnais. i still see him as an important part of the team for the near future, but may find himself out of the loop once galchenyuk is comfortable playing center OR if desharnais cannot play wing OR if he still has a 'disappointing' season. i've been saying this forever: desharnais will find himself on wings eventually. or he goes out of his slump. either way, i'd be listening.

look to upgrade gorges. must be bigger and better at transitioning the puck because i have this feeling like that's going to be our thing for a while. i know a 1 for 1 swap won't work, so im willing to add a few things, like magazine subscriptions, rock 'em sock 'em DVDs and re-runs of the habs cup runs in the 70's. also: draft picks (or something)

get a fourth line center that can win faceoffs. gordon, steckel, even halpern. i don't give two shakes of an aids-monkey which. bonus point if he can fight or can skate in somewhat of a straight line

oh, and more importantly, get the biggest, meanest, least capable hockey player ever so we can shelf the enforcer talk for a season.

my personal preference is gillies. he's beautiful, useless, and scary like malaria mixed with polio and nazi ideology. also, a **** he does not give.

things i wouldn't do:

trade plekanec: still too important. that is unless you want this team to go straight to the basement and quickly. pro-tank maneuver

trade diaz: not yet at least. markov will be gone soon/eventually, brolieu is not ready and subban will need someone to dish him the puck. i see diaz as a worthy replacement for markov. if brolieu takes huge steps and is ready, then trade diaz for mucho dinero, no need to see a streit mk 2 episode again. and you can even keep diaz! funny how the world works...

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