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Old
06-09-2013, 06:49 PM
  #26
TS Quint
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I don't understand Flames fans who think they have too may goaltending prospects and then include Joey MacDonald as an option for the future. I didn't see anyone thinking that Berra was a real NHL option until Feaster traded for him. Is Feaster really smarter than every other GM in the league on this one? Don't be mad at me. Just explain.

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06-09-2013, 06:49 PM
  #27
TheHudlinator
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Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
There were
He doesn't have nearly the same injury history which was a big knock on Varly's value.
But he also isn't nearly as good of a goalie as Varly was at 23.

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06-09-2013, 06:52 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by TS Quint View Post
I don't understand Flames fans who think they have too may goaltending prospects and then include Joey MacDonald as an option for the future. I didn't see anyone thinking that Berra was a real NHL option until Feaster traded for him. Is Feaster really smarter than every other GM in the league on this one? Don't be mad at me. Just explain.
No one sees MacDonald as a long term option but as it stands now we have

Nhl:
Ramo
MacDonald
Berra

Ahl:
Ortio
Brossoit

Where will we fit another goalie. Ramo and Berra both have potential and are only a year older than Nuev and won't cost a thing to try out. Why would we possible move any assets for another goalie before we give our 4 new goalies a look at the pros?

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06-09-2013, 06:55 PM
  #29
TS Quint
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No he doesn't he is 2 years older and has worse career numbers the only thing he has going for him is there aren't rumors he wants to go to the KHL.
Rumors about a player going to the KHL increases their trade value? That's news to me.

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06-09-2013, 07:01 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Where did I say he was worth that?
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
But he also isn't nearly as good of a goalie as Varly was at 23.
They have both gone downhill since that trade but at the time it happened Neuvirth was the starter and Varlamov had lost his job to him.

No reason to trade Neuvirth now after a bad year with injuries and shortened season. Keep him for a year now that he is signed and play him more now and he will bounce back.

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Old
06-09-2013, 07:06 PM
  #31
TS Quint
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No one sees MacDonald as a long term option but as it stands now we have

Nhl:
Ramo
MacDonald
Berra

Ahl:
Ortio
Brossoit

Where will we fit another goalie. Ramo and Berra both have potential and are only a year older than Nuev and won't cost a thing to try out. Why would we possible move any assets for another goalie before we give our 4 new goalies a look at the pros?
Like I was saying you can Toss Mac Donald. He has no real potential further than where he is now. Neuvirth Would probably top the list of these players as far as where he is right now and potential. I'm a Wings/Jets fan, so not pony in this race. Just the way I see it.

Berra wasn't even considered for the AHL by the Blues

Ramo couldn't crack a weak Tampa group of goaltenders.

The AHL goaltenders aren't even close to the NHL. One of them might even be better off in the ECHL to get more playing time.

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Old
06-09-2013, 07:15 PM
  #32
TheHudlinator
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Originally Posted by TS Quint View Post
Like I was saying you can Toss Mac Donald. He has no real potential further than where he is now. Neuvirth Would probably top the list of these players as far as where he is right now and potential. I'm a Wings/Jets fan, so not pony in this race. Just the way I see it.

Berra wasn't even considered for the AHL by the Blues

Ramo couldn't crack a weak Tampa group of goaltenders.

The AHL goaltenders aren't even close to the NHL. One of them might even be better off in the ECHL to get more playing time.

I never said the AHL goalies were close to the NHL but they still need playing time to develop, one of them could start in the ECHL (and most likely will as the loser between Ramo/Berra/MacDonald will go to the AHL) but simply tossing them aside because they aren't NHL ready is a poor way to develop players especially when your rebuilding.


Ramo was on the same Lighting team as Smith and Smith turned it around away from them no reason to think Ramo can't be better then he was at 22 not to mention that was years ago Ramo has developed into the top goalie in the KHL since then. Berra didn't want to come over until this year it wasn't that he wasn't considered he didn't want to leave home I guess playing in Switzerland has gotten routine and he wants a new challenge.

I am not saying any of these goalies are going to be great but it would be pretty stupid to not give them a chance and at least see what we have at one point in time Tim Thomas was considered not good enough for the AHL now he has one of the best season in NHL history.

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06-09-2013, 09:50 PM
  #33
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Like I was saying you can Toss Mac Donald. He has no real potential further than where he is now. Neuvirth Would probably top the list of these players as far as where he is right now and potential. I'm a Wings/Jets fan, so not pony in this race. Just the way I see it.

Berra wasn't even considered for the AHL by the Blues

Ramo couldn't crack a weak Tampa group of goaltenders.

The AHL goaltenders aren't even close to the NHL. One of them might even be better off in the ECHL to get more playing time.
No one is saying any of the goalies will be great. But the Flames can afford to wait. They're not going to be contending any time soon.

I still think their best goalie prospect is Gillies who wasn't mentioned - likely because he's still in the NCAA.

Bottom line is the Caps would be better off trading Neuvirth to a team with a more glaring need in goal.

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06-09-2013, 10:25 PM
  #34
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I never said the AHL goalies were close to the NHL but they still need playing time to develop, one of them could start in the ECHL (and most likely will as the loser between Ramo/Berra/MacDonald will go to the AHL) but simply tossing them aside because they aren't NHL ready is a poor way to develop players especially when your rebuilding.


Ramo was on the same Lighting team as Smith and Smith turned it around away from them no reason to think Ramo can't be better then he was at 22 not to mention that was years ago Ramo has developed into the top goalie in the KHL since then. Berra didn't want to come over until this year it wasn't that he wasn't considered he didn't want to leave home I guess playing in Switzerland has gotten routine and he wants a new challenge.

I am not saying any of these goalies are going to be great but it would be pretty stupid to not give them a chance and at least see what we have at one point in time Tim Thomas was considered not good enough for the AHL now he has one of the best season in NHL history.
You asked where you would fit another goaltender. I made 2 spots easy.

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06-09-2013, 10:31 PM
  #35
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You asked where you would fit another goaltender. I made 2 spots easy.
Where? The ECHL backup? That is only 1 spot and it isn't nearly as good for prospects as the AHL is.

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06-09-2013, 10:36 PM
  #36
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No one is saying any of the goalies will be great. But the Flames can afford to wait. They're not going to be contending any time soon.

I still think their best goalie prospect is Gillies who wasn't mentioned - likely because he's still in the NCAA.

Bottom line is the Caps would be better off trading Neuvirth to a team with a more glaring need in goal.
I thought goaltending was a glaring need for the Flames. I thought Neuvirth would fit in age wise and add a little competition for who ever the Flames have coming up.


Like I said I'm no Flames fan. I could be completely off base.

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06-09-2013, 10:38 PM
  #37
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I thought goaltending was a glaring need for the Flames. I thought Neuvirth would fit in age wise and add a little competition for who ever the Flames have coming up.


Like I said I'm no Flames fan. I could be completely off base.
Goaltending is a relatively strong stand point in terms of prospects (Gillies/Brossoit/Ortio) and our NHL positions are filled with 2 goalies that many people believe could be starters in the NHL (Ramo/Berra) as well as a decent backup in MacDonald. There is no pressing need to trade for a goalie now, especially with the price that is being asked.

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Old
06-09-2013, 10:43 PM
  #38
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Where? The ECHL backup? That is only 1 spot and it isn't nearly as good for prospects as the AHL is.
Or ECHL starter unless your saying the AHL back up isn't good enough to be a ECHL starter. And cut MacDonald. Thought I was pretty clear.

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06-09-2013, 10:48 PM
  #39
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OK that's fine with me. If Flames fans are excited for your goaltending future I'm happy for you. I wasn't thinking it was anything special for reasons stated. Honestly I hope you're right. I like to see Canadian teams do well. I wasn't coming to antagonize. Go Flames!

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06-09-2013, 10:52 PM
  #40
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Capitals trade the rights to Ribiero, Jeff Shultz and Michael Neuvirth to Cgy for the Pittsburgh 1st rounder obtained in the Iginla trade and a 4th rounder in next years draft. Ribiero could bridge the gap till a legitimate #1 center can be developed in Calgary. Shultz is a Cgy native looking for a new start and Michael Neuvirth won 27 games as a rookie in Bruce Boudreau"s run and gun system and would be a great heir apparent to Kipper. Washington gets cap relief to sign Alzner and Johanssen and the 1st rounder to help restock prospect pool. Thoughts?
Mmm an old pending UFA, another unproven goalie, and the worst dman in the Eastern Conference are not things that the Flames need.

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06-09-2013, 11:05 PM
  #41
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Or ECHL starter unless your saying the AHL back up isn't good enough to be a ECHL starter. And cut MacDonald. Thought I was pretty clear.
The lineup would be

Nhl:
Ramo
MacDonald

Ahl:
Berra
Ortio

Echl:
Brossoit

That is already a deep lineup we don't need to give up valuable assets to get Nuev to play backup. MacDonald can't simply be cut he would need a spot to play some where and we aren't going to buy him out not only would it look bad but he is by all accounts a great guy in the locker room and management won't do that to him.

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Old
06-10-2013, 12:45 AM
  #42
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But he also isn't nearly as good of a goalie as Varly was at 23.
He made Varly expendable, and it was no mistake that he was the starter over a healthy Varlamov for the Caps in the 2011 playoffs. Neuvirth is a fine goaltender, but many fans (myself included) don't think the Caps can afford the luxury of a $2.5M backup.

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Old
06-10-2013, 12:59 AM
  #43
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Bad trade for Calgary. Quantity =/= Quality

Don't pay a first round pick for a cap dump, a UFA and a goalie that wouldn't be the clear starter for Calgary next year.

Want Calgary to take your bad contracts? Pay up.
One of your nice D-prospects would be more than welcome.

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06-10-2013, 02:51 AM
  #44
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Like I was saying you can Toss Mac Donald. He has no real potential further than where he is now. Neuvirth Would probably top the list of these players as far as where he is right now and potential. I'm a Wings/Jets fan, so not pony in this race. Just the way I see it.

Berra wasn't even considered for the AHL by the Blues

Ramo couldn't crack a weak Tampa group of goaltenders.

The AHL goaltenders aren't even close to the NHL. One of them might even be better off in the ECHL to get more playing time.
You don't seem to get things.

MacDonald is a veteran presence for a couple young goaltenders. No more, no less.

Berra wasn't willing to sign to come to North America until recently. So no he wasn't an option for the Blues, but that was not the choice of the Blues, their fans have said the Blues wanted to sign Berra to lay in the AHL a couple years ago and he was unwilling.

Ramo was a 21 year old goaltender who was rushed to the NHL level. And he did "crack" the lightning lineup (at age 21) for 2 seasons before heading to the KHL, or do you think it is common practice for NHL teams to play a 21 year old goaltender for 20+ games. And do you honestly believe that Ramo hasn't improved in the last 4 years abroad? It is very presumptuous of you to think a 26 year old goaltender that dominated the KHL for the last 3 years is the same as the 22 year old kid that left at the age of 22.

Before you say things like "those AHL goaltenders aren't even close to the NHL" perhaps you should see them play a pro game before you make such a judgement.

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Old
06-10-2013, 03:26 AM
  #45
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Bad trade for Calgary. Quantity =/= Quality

Don't pay a first round pick for a cap dump, a UFA and a goalie that wouldn't be the clear starter for Calgary next year.

Want Calgary to take your bad contracts? Pay up.
One of your nice D-prospects would be more than welcome.
I don't know why OP sent Schultz to CGY. I'd do this just Neuvirth fir first. We can always buyout Schultzie.

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06-10-2013, 03:32 AM
  #46
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I don't know why OP sent Schultz to CGY. I'd do this just Neuvirth fir first. We can always buyout Schultzie.
That is more tempting but I would still pass.

I would rather keep the pick and draft Fucale and see what the Flames have in Ramo/Berra.

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06-10-2013, 09:18 AM
  #47
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That is more tempting but I would still pass.

I would rather keep the pick and draft Fucale and see what the Flames have in Ramo/Berra.
^
This

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06-10-2013, 09:55 AM
  #48
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I don't know why OP sent Schultz to CGY. I'd do this just Neuvirth fir first. We can always buyout Schultzie.
Agreed that Schultz will get amnistied at a minimum but I am not sure if I wouldn't try to find someone already in the NHL who can contribute for Neuvy given the current state of the team and re-alignment. Not to get too far off topic, though.

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06-10-2013, 10:52 AM
  #49
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Flames fan here, is Neuvirth even starting games for you guys? I assumed Holtby was your goalie now and Neuvirth was just a backup.

I dont think his value is near a 1st rounder. Especially in a deep draft.

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06-10-2013, 11:07 AM
  #50
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Flames fan here, is Neuvirth even starting games for you guys? I assumed Holtby was your goalie now and Neuvirth was just a backup.

I dont think his value is near a 1st rounder. Especially in a deep draft.
I think this draft is pretty thin at goalie.

But yes, Holtby is the starter. Neuvy had a pretty good year outside of one game where he got shelled by Pittsburgh. He's very technically sound and could start. I argued that he should've because earlier in the year Holtby was a mess and whenever Neuvirth was the starter the Caps either won or came close to winning.

I think Neuvirth's worth is fringing on a 1st round pick. If I'm Calgary then I would give up a first and ask for Neuvy and a 3rd in return if I need a starting goalie. I think that's very fair for both sides.

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