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Matt Read for Jonathan Bernier

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Old
06-14-2013, 06:15 PM
  #326
phlocky
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The only thing that could really screw the Kings over is if the best OS JB gets is one year at 3.2 mil and he signs it. If the Kings match it then they can't trade JB for a full year, they can't even negotiate a new contract until sometime in January, and after next season he'd be a UFA. If they don't match the offer then they only get like a 2nd rnd pick for him. THAT would suck for LA.

However, I think it's highly unlikely that the best offer JB gets is for just one year at 3.2 mil.

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06-14-2013, 06:16 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Huh? That's a fair trade. Bernier is ridiculously overrated on this boards.
But if you want him, you're going to have to pay a steep price (If I'm LA). If you don't want him, its no skin off LA's nose.

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06-14-2013, 06:17 PM
  #328
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I feel like Read is a pretty underrated player around, and even by our own fanbase at times. He's the jack of all trades player that can fill just about any role on the ice. He can play all three forward positions, though he's best suited on the wing. He plays the power play, kills penalties, can be a secondary scorer, or winger on a shutdown line. He's kind of like Justin Williams in the sense that he's good to very good at just about everything, but he's not really great at anything.

I'd love to see him resigned in Philadelphia, but there might not be enough money to go around next summer with the team already having to sign Couturier, Giroux, and Schenn. He might also go for a big payday, as it's likely to be the only big money contract he sees in his NHL career. He'd be a great fit in L.A. with their focus on everyone being a two-way guy, but I can see why they might want to go after the bigger fish if Bernier is on the table.

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06-14-2013, 06:18 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by rk5n View Post
LA fans: be honest, how sheltered has Bernier been this season? I heard rumblings about LA brass trying to drive up his value
His value is very high. He's a very talented goalie with lots of upside. If you want a guy like that, i'm guessing, you're going to have to pay the piper.

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06-14-2013, 09:09 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by DimMak View Post
LOL. LA would turn that down without a second thought. Its ok though, LA doesn't start playing until after your bedtime, so you can't be expected to know that.
Giroux is a top 5 player in the league. Your GM would be drooling if he was sent that offer.

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06-14-2013, 10:05 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by KJS14 View Post
Giroux is a top 5 player in the league. Your GM would be drooling if he was sent that offer.
Sidney Crosby Evgeni Malkin Alexander Ovechkin Daniel Sedin Henrik Sedin
Steven Stamkos Alex Pietrangelo Ilya Kovalchuk Shea Weber Henrik Lundqvist Jonathan Quick Drew Doughty etc all better players that say hi. Hes not top 5 player

kopitar richards stoll and fraser with carter lewis and richardson all capable of replaceing one should they get hurt not to mention a young player linden vey waiting in mancheaster a call away kings simply very happy with there centers no nee to drool over any

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06-14-2013, 10:31 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by KJS14 View Post
Giroux is a top 5 player in the league. Your GM would be drooling if he was sent that offer.
You have no clue what yo are talking about. Doughty is hands down more valuable than Giroux.

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06-14-2013, 10:39 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by KJS14 View Post
Giroux is a top 5 player in the league. Your GM would be drooling if he was sent that offer.
I love Giroux but he's not a top 5 player in the league and there's no way LA does that deal.

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Originally Posted by DimMak View Post
You have no clue what yo are talking about. Doughty is hands down more valuable than Giroux.
How is he "hands down" more valuable than Giroux? I love Doughty, but regardless of who you think is more valuable, it's certainly close.

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06-14-2013, 10:51 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by puckyeah View Post
His value is very high. He's a very talented goalie with lots of upside. If you want a guy like that, i'm guessing, you're going to have to pay the piper.
He's a backup on a team with a more talented #1 in front of him, and a soon to be RFA. Everyone knows LA isn't going to pay two GTs starter money.

Not saying the guy isn't talented, or has what it takes to be a #1, just that LA is a victim of circumstance here.

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06-14-2013, 10:55 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
He's a backup on a team with a more talented #1 in front of him, and a soon to be RFA. Everyone knows LA isn't going to pay two GTs starter money.

Not saying the guy isn't talented, or has what it takes to be a #1, just that LA is a victim of circumstance here.
Only to a certain extent though.

JB being an RFA means that unless we get solid value for him we can always just keep him. Allot has already been said but the Kings have made noises that lead most to believe that unless the return is at least a 1st and a 3rd that the Kings will happily match any offer and keep JB until a good deal comes along.

There is allot of value having the best 1/2 tandem in the game and that is what JB gives us. Better to hang onto him until a deal that gives us fair value for him comes along. Is a process and it will get done.

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06-14-2013, 11:19 PM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
Sidney Crosby Evgeni Malkin Alexander Ovechkin Daniel Sedin Henrik Sedin
Steven Stamkos Alex Pietrangelo Ilya Kovalchuk Shea Weber Henrik Lundqvist Jonathan Quick Drew Doughty etc all better players that say hi. Hes not top 5 player
Outside of Crosby, Malkin, and Stamkos the rest are pretty debatable at least as forwards go since its hard to really compare forwards with defensemen and goalies.

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06-14-2013, 11:30 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by DimMak View Post
You have no clue what yo are talking about. Doughty is hands down more valuable than Giroux.
"Hands down"? Really?

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06-14-2013, 11:41 PM
  #338
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Kings fans are in for some serious disappointment when Bernier ends up getting traded for a lot less than they expect. This situation is a prime example of what I keep trying to tell people here and that is that all trades aren't made in a vacuum.

There are so many factors that go into trades in this era of the NHL that go far beyond pure value from a production/potential standpoint. Cap hit, contract situation, age, team direction, team needs etc all play such a huge role.

There are so many things working against LA in any trade sending away Bernier and it will be felt when he is ultimately traded. Someone said above that LA will be a victim of circumstance in trading Bernier and what they get back for him and that is 100% correct.

As a Flyers fan I don't want Bernier even though I think there is a pretty good chance someone is going to end up with a great value down the road. I just think a veteran to compete with/share the job with Steve Mason makes a lot more sense than another young guy trying to find his way as a starter in this league.

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06-14-2013, 11:44 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Prestige Worldwide View Post
Kings fans are in for some serious disappointment when Bernier ends up getting traded for a lot less than they expect. This situation is a prime example of what I keep trying to tell people here and that is that all trades aren't made in a vacuum.

There are so many factors that go into trades in this era of the NHL that go far beyond pure value from a production/potential standpoint. Cap hit, contract situation, age, team direction, team needs etc all play such a huge role.

There are so many things working against LA in any trade sending away Bernier and it will be felt when he is ultimately traded. Someone said above that LA will be a victim of circumstance in trading Bernier and what they get back for him and that is 100% correct.

As a Flyers fan I don't want Bernier even though I think there is a pretty good chance someone is going to end up with a great value down the road. I just think a veteran to compete with/share the job with Steve Mason makes a lot more sense than another young guy trying to find his way as a starter in this league.
How does having a great young starting goalie for cheap (he is an rfa and not going to get his big dollar contract for another few years which by then the cap will have gone back up) detrimental in any way shape of form?

If anything you have just pointed out how much more valuable Bernier is by showing that he will be cheap for at least the next couple of seasons. A starting goalie who is young that costs you less than $3.5m per? Your right, that is a terrible thing.

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06-14-2013, 11:56 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
How does having a great young starting goalie for cheap
He hasn't proven to be a starting goalie able to carry the load at the NHL level yet, let alone be a great starting goalie. He has great potential and has shown some flashes, huge difference.

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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
(he is an rfa and not going to get his big dollar contract for another few years which by then the cap will have gone back up) detrimental in any way shape of form?
The Kings aren't going to pay Bernier 3-4 million to backup their vezina caliber goalie with a 5.8 million cap hit. Bernier also has to sign a contract as a RFA and all signs point to Bernier's agent and the Kings having an understanding based on common sense that it is everyone's best interest if he moved on elsewhere in his career and the Kings got some value for him now. At the same time the Kings aren't dealing him from a great position of strength on light of these factors.


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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
If anything you have just pointed out how much more valuable Bernier is by showing that he will be cheap for at least the next couple of seasons. A starting goalie who is young that costs you less than $3.5m per? Your right, that is a terrible thing.
Dude, seriously, wtf are you talking about.

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06-15-2013, 12:24 AM
  #341
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Outside of Crosby, Malkin, and Stamkos the rest are pretty debatable at least as forwards go since its hard to really compare forwards with defensemen and goalies.
He said player hense the wingers goalies and defenseman enter the conversation other wise if he said center i would have said it was debatable but to me defenseman wings and some elite goalies are better players

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06-15-2013, 12:44 AM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Prestige Worldwide View Post
He hasn't proven to be a starting goalie able to carry the load at the NHL level yet, let alone be a great starting goalie. He has great potential and has shown some flashes, huge difference.

The Kings aren't going to pay Bernier 3-4 million to backup their vezina caliber goalie with a 5.8 million cap hit. Bernier also has to sign a contract as a RFA and all signs point to Bernier's agent and the Kings having an understanding based on common sense that it is everyone's best interest if he moved on elsewhere in his career and the Kings got some value for him now. At the same time the Kings aren't dealing him from a great position of strength on light of these factors.


Dude, seriously, wtf are you talking about.
The Kings might do that but anything over $3.134.088 in an offersheet gets us a 1st and a 3rd pick back. That is my point. To those saying that we would take anything less they are sadly mistaken. DL himself has already said what he will take in return for JB and that hasn't changed.

Having the best 1/2 goaltending tandem in the NHL on a win now team is a great value to us. We can afford him in spite of what some think and we will do exactly that if we don't get what DL has said is fair value for JB.

The thing that keeps getting overlooked is how valuable it is to the Kings, a team that won the cup last season and made the WCF's this season to have two exceptional young goalies. Quick got pulled too late in the game that JB replaced him in (Quick is said to have finished the last 3 games of the playoffs with an upper body injury but it is unconfirmed) where he went perfect.

You have to face the fact that a fanbase of a team that has the best goalie in the league in Quick (as we see it and so do several pundits) is perfectly happy when JB replaces him. No nerves, no complaints and no worries. When JB starts we know we have just as good a chance of winning as we do when JQ is in net.

So there is that. If a team sends an OS of more than $3.134.088 then the Kings will have to consider rather or not they would move JB for such a return (1st and 3rd) but it will take at least that to get them to consider moving him and if you think that is wrong then lets meet here again once JB gets dealt.

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06-15-2013, 12:49 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by flyersfan018 View Post
"Hands down"? Really?
From the Kings POV, yeah, it's not close. I would also argue that, given the choice, most GMs would take Doughty.

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06-15-2013, 01:51 AM
  #344
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
Sidney Crosby Evgeni Malkin Alexander Ovechkin Daniel Sedin Henrik Sedin
Steven Stamkos Alex Pietrangelo Ilya Kovalchuk Shea Weber Henrik Lundqvist Jonathan Quick Drew Doughty etc all better players that say hi. Hes not top 5 player

kopitar richards stoll and fraser with carter lewis and richardson all capable of replaceing one should they get hurt not to mention a young player linden vey waiting in mancheaster a call away kings simply very happy with there centers no nee to drool over any
Henrik Sedin, Ilya Kovalchuk, Doughty, Toews all players Giroux is better. Get out of here

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06-15-2013, 01:55 AM
  #345
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Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
Henrik Sedin, Ilya Kovalchuk, Doughty, Toews all players Giroux is better. Get out of here
still leaves 8 players better then him my point is proven

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06-15-2013, 03:17 AM
  #346
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What would the market for Quick be like right now. Just wondering. Better or worse than what JB would command?

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06-15-2013, 04:27 AM
  #347
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Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
Henrik Sedin, Ilya Kovalchuk, Doughty, Toews all players Giroux is better. Get out of here
What's so funny about that? They have all have a good arguments for being better than Giroux.

Giroux is not at top 5 player in the NHL. I don't even think he's a top 5 center in the NHL to be honest. And posters suggesting that Giroux is worth Kopitar and Doughty is ridiculous seeing as he has similar value than Kopitar.

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06-15-2013, 04:28 AM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Hitman47 View Post
What would the market for Quick be like right now. Just wondering. Better or worse than what JB would command?
Lol, is this is a joke?

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06-15-2013, 07:47 AM
  #349
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Originally Posted by PayItForward View Post
What's so funny about that? They have all have a good arguments for being better than Giroux.

Giroux is not at top 5 player in the NHL. I don't even think he's a top 5 center in the NHL to be honest. And posters suggesting that Giroux is worth Kopitar and Doughty is ridiculous seeing as he has similar value than Kopitar.
Giroux was rated as the 3rd best player in the league by his peers in a hockey news survey last year. So lets no go crazy saying he isn't a top 5 center in the league. I agree he ain't worth Kopitar and Doughty, but you don't need to be ridiculous about it.

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06-15-2013, 07:59 AM
  #350
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
Giroux was rated as the 3rd best player in the league by his peers in a hockey news survey last year. So lets no go crazy saying he isn't a top 5 center in the league. I agree he ain't worth Kopitar and Doughty, but you don't need to be ridiculous about it.
It's not crazy to say Giroux is not a top 5 center. I don't think Giroux is a better player than Kopitar, Toews, Datsyuk, etc. I'd rank them all on the same level and it really comes down to mainly a preference thing. I also don't know why what his peers voted should mean that much, if Giroux is not voted that high this season, does it suddenly make it less crazy to say that he's not a top 5 center? Giroux has not separated himself from those players. He could do so in the future, but he needs more than the 2011-2012 season to do so IMO.

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