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Matt Read for Jonathan Bernier

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Old
06-10-2013, 06:44 PM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Most Kings fans that wanted a "Read + pick" for JB wanted our 1st as the pick.
I have read through that thread and I don't see too anyone saying that but I could have missed one I gress. Read plus a pick to everything I have read says it should be a 3rd. A couple think a second.

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06-10-2013, 06:49 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
It doesn't matter to me that McK said the same thing I did a week after I said it. Who cares? The idea has been out there and it was presented by a Kings fan. The fact that McK said it only further validates the idea as being a sound one.

Anyone that would say that they want Couturier plus a top prospect plus a pick for JB (the rest of your point has nothing to do with what we are discussing)is delusional. Not that I have seen a single Kings fan make that suggestion.

Anyone saying that Read plus a high pick (3rd in 13 for example) sounds fair is closer to right.

Anything is just nonsense.
I just wanted to clarify about what some Kings fans were saying JB's value was BEFORE the McK's report (this isn't directed at you but just an FYI).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kinghock View Post
Possible J.Bernier trades.
1. To NJ for 2013 1st
2. To NYI for Nino Niederreiter or 2013 1st and 2013 3rd
3. To Calgary for Sven Baertschi
4. To Pittsburg Bernier and Forbort for J.Neal
5. To Philadelphia for 2013 1st and 2013 3rd
Here JB is worth a top 10 pick in this years draft +++ and in the Pens one he's Neal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
I think that's the maximum cost if a market develops. It's what I'd be willing to give up to keep, say, the Devils or Flyers from stabilizing their goaltending situations, while fixing our own.

Considering the draft, I think a 2013 1st > 2014 1st and 2014 third. I would do a 2013 1st or Nino. There's no need to go higher unless a market for Bernier is demonstrated.
Again, asking for far more than what they are "settling for" in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fsanford View Post
You don't pin your hopes on a 35 year old goalie as a starter, back up maybe

Seems Miller will limit where he is willing to go, he is better, but the market much much smaller. Maybe Phoenix would work for him.

Halak head case documented arguments with coaches.

Guess its all preference, in MAF you have a guy who has melted down 2 year straight in the playoffs that is a trend not a blip.. Don't think you want him leading your team in the playoff's.

Most of the other guys are in their 30's on the downside of their careers. You paint the market as a buyers market, I see it as more of a sellers, just because of quality and what I see teams wanting to invest in.

Like I said before Kings will want Picks at least a 1st or high end prospects for him.
Will not want roster players unless they are cheap.

Neal, the Kings cannot take his 5 million in salary.. Not that this would happen anyway.
First or high-end prospect

Quote:
Originally Posted by fsanford View Post
So all was harmonious in St Louis? And the stories were all wrong?

Bernier has a much higher pedigree, than those 2 guys, and is 3 years younger to boot.

Guess will see, you think Bernier garners maybe a 2nd or 3rd if that,

I say he pulls at least a 1st, and a higher end prospect..

In the end the Kings may just keep him, if they can get a decent contract signed.
Here he's returning a 1st AND a high end prospect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
hense the we need a first in any deal we do. I would love to see domi as a king but im not the best at knowing who would be best i ll leave that up to other kings fan like tg or kingsfan, All i know is I want to draft in the first round this year and every year to come, The more we draft the better the outlook for replacement players when needed are.
Again, looking for a good 1st rnd pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
A king fan started this post yes but for ur information for each king fan thats starts a thread to trade jb there are at least 9 others started by others or mention in other threads the kings gm went on record last summer stating hes not trading jb he would be to valueable to trade. Also the value for j bernier is not just coming from la fans its based on what our gm said and two crediable media people. Darren deggar and Bob MacKenzie stateing right out of there mouths that the price starts with a first and a young top 6 potential winger and a little more. So before u think we re asking to much belive me its nothing new to hear we are hearing this from credable sources not us making it up. Most king fans are happy to have a great goaltending duo. If you dont like seeing the threads i suggest you ignore them because im sure between now and when ever he does get traded there going to be alot more threads.
This one was the BEST. Here the Kings get a 1st, a top 6 forward AND MORE. Based upon this post the Flyers should be offering Read + the 11th oa + a B level prospect or 3rd. LOL, now THAT'S funny.

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Old
06-10-2013, 06:53 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I have read through that thread and I don't see too anyone saying that but I could have missed one I gress. Read plus a pick to everything I have read says it should be a 3rd. A couple think a second.
I think that Read for JB straight up is probably fair. I'd be okay with adding a 3rd because of ages and contracts. I'd probably be hesitant to change the 3rd to a 2nd because there should be some solid players there at #41 when we pick in the 2nd and lord knows we need to get lucky with some picks of dmen (not just our 1st this year but later picks too, IMO).

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06-10-2013, 07:04 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
I love how people claim Reads numbers are inflated, meanwhile he plays on the 3rd ****ing line. Give me a break
That is simply not true. He spent the whole season shuffling from the third to the FIRST line.

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06-10-2013, 07:17 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I just wanted to clarify about what some Kings fans were saying JB's value was BEFORE the McK's report (this isn't directed at you but just an FYI).



Here JB is worth a top 10 pick in this years draft +++ and in the Pens one he's Neal.



Again, asking for far more than what they are "settling for" in this thread.



First or high-end prospect


Here he's returning a 1st AND a high end prospect.



Again, looking for a good 1st rnd pick



This one was the BEST. Here the Kings get a 1st, a top 6 forward AND MORE. Based upon this post the Flyers should be offering Read + the 11th oa + a B level prospect or 3rd. LOL, now THAT'S funny.

Again u fail to read my post The trade i think is the best for the kings is with the islanders getting a first third and a POTENTIAL top 6 forward read that again POTENTIAL top 6 winger in Kirill Kabanov. This is a b prospect note not nino not brock not Strome If you read in the read tread i stated i was also fine with a read 3rd return. Again if your going to quote be please stick to what offer im commenting to and not use it to quote to other offers.

the max domi quote was the person i would pick with the islander first if he was avialiable again try reading what im saying. So it wasnt a first and high propspect. shakeshead


Last edited by KingCanadain1976: 06-10-2013 at 07:27 PM.
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Old
06-10-2013, 07:17 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I just wanted to clarify about what some Kings fans were saying JB's value was BEFORE the McK's report (this isn't directed at you but just an FYI).
Fair enough.

Quote:
Here JB is worth a top 10 pick in this years draft +++ and in the Pens one he's Neal.
To be fair he is suggesting that it would be JB + Forbort (6'5" Dman 1st rounder taken at 14 who is NHL ready) for Neal.

The Devils 1st is short of a 1st and 3rd that most of us think he will return.

From the Isels it is Nino *or* a 1st and 3rd in 13.




Quote:
Again, asking for far more than what they are "settling for" in this thread.
Dan-o is an Isles fan. I was really only looking at Kings fans stuff.


Quote:
First or high-end prospect.
First or high-end prospect should read a high-end prospect plus a 3rd or a 1st and a 3rd. The fact that it is either or seems undervaluing JB himself a fully developed former 12th overall pick and a solid player for the Kings.

Quote:
Here he's returning a 1st AND a high end prospect.
You are right and I don't agree with him. The high end prospect would have to be one that is years away or still has growing to do but then that makes them a lesser high end prospect.


Quote:
Again, looking for a good 1st rnd pick.
I agree with him. If all we receive in return for JB is a first round pick it would have to be a good one but I can't see us settling for a pick when we are in a win now mode.

Quote:
This one was the BEST. Here the Kings get a 1st, a top 6 forward AND MORE. Based upon this post the Flyers should be offering Read + the 11th oa + a B level prospect or 3rd. LOL, now THAT'S funny.
I agree that would be funny if it was what he was suggesting but I see what he is saying is "the price starts with a 1st and a top 6 potential winger and a little more" to mean he expects a 1st rd pick and then a prospect who could or even maybe should at some point make the NHL and has top 6 potential. Again I agree with that depending on the pick and or the prospect. A top first and that prospect goes down in value. A mid 1st and the prospect goes up.

Sorry for the bolded stuff. I just caught it and I didn't mean anything by it. Just another glitch.

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06-10-2013, 07:51 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Crowne Royale View Post
Well said. Bernier's developed in a good organizational culture, cup winner. Those who say he's inexperienced haven't seen him play. He's a number 1 goalie. Bigger goalies might cover more surface area, but the holes are larger. Pick your poison. He stops the puck, that's what you want right?

Read's got good speed and hands but Bernier's value (a number 1 goalie) exceeds Read's (depth forward). Plus, Read's accomplished those stats in a much more wide open conference and he doesnt really fit the LA team identity or organizational need. For those who say goalies don't have value comparatively speaking, I really don't understand that rationale. Backstrom, Smith, Luongo, all very pricey, and with the cap coming down, it makes Bernier more advantageous for teams needing an upgrade in goal. (Pitt, Philly, NYI, PHX, Minn, Cal, Edm, Col ought to all be shopping.)
If you peg Bernier a #1 goalie read is certainly a top 6 forward. He's Patrick Sharp lite

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06-10-2013, 07:58 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
I read the whole thread and didn't see anyone suggest the name of another player who the Kings could trade Bernier for straight up who is better than Matt Read.

Maybe there is one, but no one could provide an example.
No ones knocking Matt Read as a player but with how it looks Bernier is a stud already and we all know from the backend out the higher the talent the higher he price ( im most situations)I know I would rather have a #1 goalie over a number 1 D. I know I'd rather have a #1 d man over a top 3 fwd( in most cases,IMO). Get my point. That's how I view it maybe that's what is other people's point. Just assuming

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06-10-2013, 08:04 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyPnOtiK View Post
If you peg Bernier a #1 goalie read is certainly a top 6 forward. He's Patrick Sharp lite
Read is a 2nd liner.

Bernier is a (90 percent most likely) number 1 goalie.

Can we agree?

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06-10-2013, 08:12 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraLupin View Post
Read is a 2nd liner.

Bernier is a (90 percent most likely) number 1 goalie.

Can we agree?
No. Matt read is already a 2nd line forward. Is Bernier already a #1 goaltender? No. Until he proves he is able to perform as a #1 goaltender in that role, he is not a #1 goaltender.

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06-10-2013, 08:14 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraLupin View Post
Read is a 2nd liner.

Bernier is a (90 percent most likely) number 1 goalie.

Can we agree?
Bernier is 0% a #1 Goalie, until proven otherwise.

Does he have the potential to become a #1 goalie? Absolutely. Is it likely? Sure. But until then, nope.

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06-10-2013, 08:15 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Mats26 View Post
We signed Simon because Brad Richards signed with NYR. Gagne was option 2, now that turn out splendid didn't it. Read would be a good 3rd liner 2nd line filler for LA, but we need to find bigger players with speed\skill for our top 6. I have a feeling we hold on to Penner because we won't find our LW with Bernier or in UFA.
Well that that sums up the disconnect between fan bases. If you would rather have Pancake Penner over Read then sure, no trade works for you.

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06-10-2013, 08:28 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by KaraLupin View Post
That is simply not true. He spent the whole season shuffling from the third to the FIRST line.
So when he plays on the 3rd line, he is pegged as a 3rd liner. Then when he puts up points, it's because he has been on the first line...but still no one says he is a first liner.

He has finished 105 and 115 in points the past 2 years. Assuming the top 90 are 1st liners, then he produces as a high end 2nd liner. And he is good defensively so he holds more value than offensive only players like Boyes for example.

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06-10-2013, 08:41 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraLupin View Post
Read is a 2nd liner.

Bernier is a (90 percent most likely) number 1 goalie.

Can we agree?
No we can't. As much as I want Bernier, he's an unknown commodity and we don't know what we're getting. I had said when it happened, it was a mistake we didn't get Bernier in the Richards trade. In fact, would you take back Schenn? Please? I'll get roasted for that comment, but I just don't see it.

Anyway, Read for JB straight up would be fine with me and I think it's fair. But I'd rather sheet him instead.

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06-10-2013, 08:48 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
So when he plays on the 3rd line, he is pegged as a 3rd liner. Then when he puts up points, it's because he has been on the first line...but still no one says he is a first liner.

He has finished 105 and 115 in points the past 2 years. Assuming the top 90 are 1st liners, then he produces as a high end 2nd liner. And he is good defensively so he holds more value than offensive only players like Boyes for example.
From watching him play, his skillset is a 2nd liner. I don't think he will ever reach first line status...

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06-10-2013, 08:50 PM
  #191
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I think we need to add more than just Read when going after Bernier. Nothing big, but a nice complimentary...

For people saying Bernier isn't a number 1 until proven, you just killed any value you were arguing Couturier had in the other thread...

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06-10-2013, 10:45 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by KaraLupin View Post
From watching him play, his skillset is a 2nd liner. I don't think he will ever reach first line status...
I agree, Read will be a 2nd liner for the next 6-8 years

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06-10-2013, 10:52 PM
  #193
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I don't think any team should trade a top 6 forward for a backup goalie with limited experience.

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06-10-2013, 11:15 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Dominate Kesler View Post
I don't think any team should trade a top 6 forward for a backup goalie with limited experience.
Agreed.

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06-10-2013, 11:33 PM
  #195
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Bernier is a lot better than people think. He had such a dominant year in the AHL, posting ridiculous numbers and has always been good for the Kings. Once he gets to be a #1, he will show people how good he really is.

Matt Read is also a good player. Despite playing on an offensive team, that guy has all the skills you look for in a teammate. Because he only has 1 year left on his contract, I think this deal slightly favors Philly. I would tack on a conditional pick or a 3rd/4th rounder.

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06-11-2013, 12:32 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Dominate Kesler View Post
I don't think any team should trade a top 6 forward for a backup goalie with limited experience.
I feel as if though the trade would be for two young goaltenders to fight for the #1 spot in philly, pushing them to play their best game. Both are goalies with potential to be very good goalies. I don't see a problem with that kind of move. I doubt the Flyers would acquire him to keep him as a backup.

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06-11-2013, 12:35 AM
  #197
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I swear mason looked good the games he played, I dont know if he can be the starter but they need to give him a chance.

Mason's been a stud before

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06-11-2013, 01:59 AM
  #198
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I honestly want nothing to do with a midget in the line up. He's not worth it at all.

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06-11-2013, 02:09 AM
  #199
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The prevailing argument in this thread doesn't make sense. Bernier will never be a number 1 goalie if he doesn't leave LA. If Bernier is not worth a top 6 forward, or someone with top 6 ability being blocked, he never leaves LA. Eventually someone is going to have to take a chance and budge.

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06-11-2013, 07:42 AM
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
I honestly want nothing to do with a midget in the line up. He's not worth it at all.
So you want to get rid of Bernier?

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