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2013 Draft Thread: DousedInOil's Annual Rankings Edition

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Old
06-15-2013, 01:12 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by *M*J*D* View Post
Is Horvat really that big? Everything I can find on him only lists him at 6 feet, however he apparently is over 200 lbs. But height wise he isn't any bigger than Lindholm even.
Question is... why does height matter? A guy who is 6 feet and 210 pound is likely going to hit harder than a guy who is 6'2 and 185. (Assuming they both know how to throw a hit).

Height often seems to be overrated around here. If this kid is 6 feet and 211 pounds then he is built like a truck. Zero concerns over size there.

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06-15-2013, 01:23 PM
  #152
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Size is such an overblown thing. Two of the best hitters in the league are Dustin Brown(6', 204lbs) and Cal Clutterbuck(5'11", 215lbs). It's way more important to have the drive and compete level than be big.

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06-15-2013, 02:28 PM
  #153
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Thanks guys, I just wrongfully assumed that we meant he is tall. This is the same reason Bob Stauf prefers Monahan over Lindholm, because he has a height advantage. Basically Hrovat is the same size as RHN but heavier, I agree that weight and strength can have value.

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06-15-2013, 02:33 PM
  #154
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Having contemplated that, i hope that the Oilers get it too, compete, passion, and ability are more valuable than size alone, otherwise Andy Sutton, and John Scott would be everyones first pairing D, Chara just happens to have all of the tools including size, what a package there. I hope one of our young D can develop into something similar.

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06-15-2013, 04:26 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarDownBobo View Post
Horvat is bigger and a center.
Horvat is taller , but Domi is bigger by virtue of the fact he's the same weight with 2 less inches. More muscle. Bottom line, Domi is going to be much more of a physical impact on the game. That's what makes him so appealing. He reminds me of Raffi Torres but with potentially more skill.



I bet you, unless the Oilers take Horvat at 7 (which would be a huuuuuge mistake), that Domi goes before Horvat in the draft.

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06-15-2013, 04:47 PM
  #156
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Can Horvat come in and compete next year?

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06-15-2013, 05:02 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
Horvat is taller , but Domi is bigger by virtue of the fact he's the same weight with 2 less inches. More muscle. Bottom line, Domi is going to be much more of a physical impact on the game. That's what makes him so appealing. He reminds me of Raffi Torres but with potentially more skill.



I bet you, unless the Oilers take Horvat at 7 (which would be a huuuuuge mistake), that Domi goes before Horvat in the draft.
Then you would lose the bet.

Horvat will likely go to:

Edm 7
NJ 9
Dal 10
PHX 12
CLB 14

Can't see CLB passing on Horvat if available (their deep on D and need F). I don't see anybody taking Domi in the top 15.

And how can you watch the Oilers and want Domi? He would be absolutely redundant on this team. It is mind boggling to me to even suggest him for this team.

Nuge, Gagner, Domi??? Good luck winning in the playoffs with those as your C's. Factor in the size of the C's in our division starting next year (Kopitar, Getzlaf, Thornton, Couture, Hanzal, and even Sedin) and their offensive ability....who is going to go up against those behemoths and shut them down?

Yeah great strategy....I think we should try to go for an all sub 6' team at forward. Yup Domi at 7! Petan at 37! Boom! How can we lose with all that skill!

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06-15-2013, 07:53 PM
  #158
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I think that we will be coming out of the draft with one of Lindholm, Monahan, or Nich. Having Nich would be a nice addition. Hall and Nich as our top two left wingers would wear teams down.

I have been a firm believer that we should move Gagner and go after a bigger centreman. He does not have to get as many points as Gagner just as to be better on the faceoff and have a better two way game.

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06-16-2013, 12:22 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
Horvat is taller , but Domi is bigger by virtue of the fact he's the same weight with 2 less inches. More muscle. Bottom line, Domi is going to be much more of a physical impact on the game. That's what makes him so appealing. He reminds me of Raffi Torres but with potentially more skill.

-

I bet you, unless the Oilers take Horvat at 7 (which would be a huuuuuge mistake), that Domi goes before Horvat in the draft.
Domi is close to 20lbs lighter than Horvat.

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06-16-2013, 03:36 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
Horvat is taller , but Domi is bigger by virtue of the fact he's the same weight with 2 less inches. More muscle. Bottom line, Domi is going to be much more of a physical impact on the game. That's what makes him so appealing. He reminds me of Raffi Torres but with potentially more skill.



I bet you, unless the Oilers take Horvat at 7 (which would be a huuuuuge mistake), that Domi goes before Horvat in the draft.
How many games have you watched of Domi? He doesn't like corners and physical play at all and often provokes people and lets other people do his bidding. He has random big hits like the one you showed but he isn't a physical player. Horvat doesn't have the highlight reel hit but I guarantee you he is much tougher in the corners and in front of the net. Domi is not like Torres at all he likes to stickhandle and dangle around people. I am pretty confident you have a massive misconception of what constitutes Domi's game on a game-by-game and shift-by-shift basis.

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06-16-2013, 12:37 PM
  #161
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This is the most interesting draft I can think of.

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06-16-2013, 09:02 PM
  #162
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So is Ryan Hartman possible with our 2nd?

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06-16-2013, 09:21 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by oilsp1ll View Post
How many games have you watched of Domi? He doesn't like corners and physical play at all and often provokes people and lets other people do his bidding. He has random big hits like the one you showed but he isn't a physical player. Horvat doesn't have the highlight reel hit but I guarantee you he is much tougher in the corners and in front of the net. Domi is not like Torres at all he likes to stickhandle and dangle around people. I am pretty confident you have a massive misconception of what constitutes Domi's game on a game-by-game and shift-by-shift basis.
Nope, I know what he is, and he's more talented that Horvat. You want to draft a defensive centre who is 'good in the corners' with the 7th overall pick? Give me a break. Domi has actual talent, he's a great stick handler and a great passer, and that's something you can build on. The ceiling is WAY higher and I will bet you that scouts agree with me... I said before and I'll say again, I'm willing to bet that Domi goes before Horvat save for if the Oilers draft him (which would be stupid). I would rather teach the offensively gifted guy defense, then the defensively gifted guy offense, and so would most NHL clubs.

The point wasn't that Domi is going to be some kind of physical game changer in the NHL, the point was that he'd hold his own just fine and perhaps then some. His size is not a concern. It's not like Horvat is some kind of a force either... they're very equal physically. When you're drafting in the first half of the first round you need to go after the guys with very real talent, not the guy who's working hard and listing to his coach well... that's for later in the draft.

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06-16-2013, 09:25 PM
  #164
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I don't think you have a good grasp on Horvat, to be honest.

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06-16-2013, 09:37 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
Nope, I know what he is, and he's more talented that Horvat. You want to draft a defensive centre who is 'good in the corners' with the 7th overall pick? Give me a break. Domi has actual talent, he's a great stick handler and a great passer, and that's something you can build on. The ceiling is WAY higher and I will bet you that scouts agree with me... I said before and I'll say again, I'm willing to bet that Domi goes before Horvat save for if the Oilers draft him (which would be stupid). I would rather teach the offensively gifted guy defense, then the defensively gifted guy offense, and so would most NHL clubs.

The point wasn't that Domi is going to be some kind of physical game changer in the NHL, the point was that he'd hold his own just fine and perhaps then some. His size is not a concern. It's not like Horvat is some kind of a force either... they're very equal physically. When you're drafting in the first half of the first round you need to go after the guys with very real talent, not the guy who's working hard and listing to his coach well... that's for later in the draft.
Yeah, that's what the Oilers need. More fancy dans.

I don't think you know too much about Horvat. He's not some bottom 6 grinder with little offensive game to speak of. He has some real offensive ability as evidenced by his very strong 2nd half of the season and playoffs and you can just see by watching him play that he has the very real ability to create offense on his own.

The Oilers don't need more flash and dash, they need more 2 way threats and with all else being equal which it seems to be between Domi and Horvat, you go with the player that fits the Oilers needs best. I don't know where you get this silly idea that Domi has MUCH more upside. Because he has sick danglezzz?

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06-16-2013, 09:49 PM
  #166
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Let's see who the professional scouts agree with.

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Old
06-17-2013, 09:13 AM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
I said before and I'll say again, I'm willing to bet that Domi goes before Horvat save for if the Oilers draft him (which would be stupid). I would rather teach the offensively gifted guy defense, then the defensively gifted guy offense, and so would most NHL clubs.

When you're drafting in the first half of the first round you need to go after the guys with very real talent, not the guy who's working hard and listing to his coach well... that's for later in the draft.
I'll take that bet. Avatar bet for the entire offseason? Loser has to have an avatar that says "I love Domi" if Domi goes higher and "I love Horvat" if Horvat goes higher.

As far as teaching defence goes, just look at Rob Schremp. Offensively he was great but too one dimensional. Some players are just going to be defensively liabilities. I don't even know why you are arguing a case for Domi when he is the last thing we need. He's going to be a short offensive winger (something we don't need) at the NHL level.

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06-17-2013, 09:46 AM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGoOilers
First I'd like to say that I really enjoyed your draft preview last year and I'm pretty choked that your computer killed this years version. It was so much more in depth than the stuff that I generally see leading up to the draft. I've always enjoyed reading about guys a little further down the draft chart and finding guys who I like. Guys like Dalton Thrower last year, or Jordan Eberle and Josh Holden in the past. I'd love to read your take on a few guys if you have some time to send me a bit of info. Kerby Rychel, Anthony Mantha, Valentin Zykov, and Tristan Jarry
These guys are all players that I probably like more then most scouting agencies. All four of them have high reward potential and deserve first round consideration. I have Jarry as my highest rated goaltenders but I'm not entirely sure he is the first goalie to go.

Anthony Mantha: 50 goal scorers don't come along very often in their draft year. The only other player I can think of that scored 50 and wasn't drafted first overall was Jeff Skinner- not bad company. Mantha is probably the best shooter in this year draft and registered a qmjhl high 214 dangerous shots. He can score from anywhere on the ice and score at will. When you consider his goal scoring and factor in his 6'4" frame it's hard to ignore his upside. Still, scouts tend to focus on the negatives in his game. Mantha can be inconsistent (as most goal scorers are) and looks like he lacks effort on a nightly basis. He doesn't do the little things that teams want to see in an competitor. Mantha is also the oldest player in the draft and some scouts think that will work against him. Personally, I think he is the biggest risk-reward player in this years draft and wouldn't be surprised if teams shy away for a safer player. I personally think his criticisms are a bit blown out of proportion.

Kerby Rychel: Rychel, in on way is like Mantha. He is a terrific goal scorer that puts up points but still needs a lot of work in his game. Kerby plays a pretty unique game because he is always on the edge like a powerforward but doesn't play a powerforward game. He gets in people's faces and is a bit of a pest but isn't overly tough. He has shown that he has the ability to put up 6 points in one night and be inconsistent for the rest of the week. Rychel still needs work on his defensive game as well. Personally, I think playing on a weak team hurt his draft stock a bit this year. He just needs more time to polish his overall game before he makes the next step. He has extremely high offensive instincts and that is hard to find in any draft.

Valentin Zykov:
Usually when you are named the CHL rookie of the year, you garner a lot of attention. However, playing for Baie-Comeau he is to the lack of expose. Zykov finished second on his team in scoring and was a big reason that his team managed to face the Halifax Mooseheads in the QMJHL final. Zykov is a big thick winger that loves to rush the puck down the ice and take it the net. He has that powerforward element in his game but will be more of a goal scorer at the NHL level. From everything I've heard, he sounded like he was the best interview at the combine. Still has some things he has to work in but for whatever reason continues to fly under the radar.

Tristan Jarry:
I'm usually not a great judge in goaltenders, so maybe that's why I don't have a single goalie rated in the first round. Every time I've seen Jarry come in to replace LB, I've been impressed this season. He seems to be really relaxed in his net and has the numbers to back it up. Despite only playing 27 games he put up 6 shutouts and had a .936 save percentage. He's good laterally, uses his size well and has a quick glove hand. I'm not sure of he can take on a full schedule but he definitely has all the tools.

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06-17-2013, 12:56 PM
  #169
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Lazar article from copperNblue... This guy isn't a fan of him.
http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/6/17...ar-comparables

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06-17-2013, 01:17 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
These guys are all players that I probably like more then most scouting agencies. All four of them have high reward potential and deserve first round consideration. I have Jarry as my highest rated goaltenders but I'm not entirely sure he is the first goalie to go.

Anthony Mantha: 50 goal scorers don't come along very often in their draft year. The only other player I can think of that scored 50 and wasn't drafted first overall was Jeff Skinner- not bad company. Mantha is probably the best shooter in this year draft and registered a qmjhl high 214 dangerous shots. He can score from anywhere on the ice and score at will. When you consider his goal scoring and factor in his 6'4" frame it's hard to ignore his upside. Still, scouts tend to focus on the negatives in his game. Mantha can be inconsistent (as most goal scorers are) and looks like he lacks effort on a nightly basis. He doesn't do the little things that teams want to see in an competitor. Mantha is also the oldest player in the draft and some scouts think that will work against him. Personally, I think he is the biggest risk-reward player in this years draft and wouldn't be surprised if teams shy away for a safer player. I personally think his criticisms are a bit blown out of proportion.

Kerby Rychel: Rychel, in on way is like Mantha. He is a terrific goal scorer that puts up points but still needs a lot of work in his game. Kerby plays a pretty unique game because he is always on the edge like a powerforward but doesn't play a powerforward game. He gets in people's faces and is a bit of a pest but isn't overly tough. He has shown that he has the ability to put up 6 points in one night and be inconsistent for the rest of the week. Rychel still needs work on his defensive game as well. Personally, I think playing on a weak team hurt his draft stock a bit this year. He just needs more time to polish his overall game before he makes the next step. He has extremely high offensive instincts and that is hard to find in any draft.

Valentin Zykov:
Usually when you are named the CHL rookie of the year, you garner a lot of attention. However, playing for Baie-Comeau he is to the lack of expose. Zykov finished second on his team in scoring and was a big reason that his team managed to face the Halifax Mooseheads in the QMJHL final. Zykov is a big thick winger that loves to rush the puck down the ice and take it the net. He has that powerforward element in his game but will be more of a goal scorer at the NHL level. From everything I've heard, he sounded like he was the best interview at the combine. Still has some things he has to work in but for whatever reason continues to fly under the radar.

Tristan Jarry:
I'm usually not a great judge in goaltenders, so maybe that's why I don't have a single goalie rated in the first round. Every time I've seen Jarry come in to replace LB, I've been impressed this season. He seems to be really relaxed in his net and has the numbers to back it up. Despite only playing 27 games he put up 6 shutouts and had a .936 save percentage. He's good laterally, uses his size well and has a quick glove hand. I'm not sure of he can take on a full schedule but he definitely has all the tools.

Good comments on some of the less talked about top prospects. Hopefully the Oilers can snag one of these types of players with their own 2nd (or by trading up into the 1st).

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06-17-2013, 01:20 PM
  #171
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Lazar article from copperNblue... This guy isn't a fan of him.
http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/6/17...ar-comparables
Adjusted goals and points?

That's pretty much all you need to know.

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06-17-2013, 01:25 PM
  #172
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Not saying we should pick him, but how come whenever I go onto this topic on the Oilers board, I rarely see Rasmus Ristolainen's name?

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06-17-2013, 01:49 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Not saying we should pick him, but how come whenever I go onto this topic on the Oilers board, I rarely see Rasmus Ristolainen's name?
He is not really the sexy pick at 7. He is not in that supposed top 7 their guys or 8 if you consider nurse their. I like him I think he could be a more physical Jeff Petry.

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06-17-2013, 02:02 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Not saying we should pick him, but how come whenever I go onto this topic on the Oilers board, I rarely see Rasmus Ristolainen's name?

Nothing wrong with RR... but if the Oilers pick at #7 it would be a C imo... Monahan/Lindholm/Horvat/Lazar.

Nurse/Zadorov/Ristolainen are pretty much considered equal when it comes to a consensus and everyone will have their opinion who is better... but at this stage it would be hard to definitively say which of those 3 dmen will be better long term.

I wouldn't mind any of those 3 (or Pulock for that matter) on the Oilers but the priority for the Oilers is adding a capable body at centre... which is why you don't see a whole lot of in-depth discussion here comparing dmen like Nurse/Pulock/RR/Zadorov to each other.

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06-17-2013, 02:05 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Not saying we should pick him, but how come whenever I go onto this topic on the Oilers board, I rarely see Rasmus Ristolainen's name?
If we were 8, he would be the guy I want, I just think it's cause there seems to be a clear top 7, so we only talk about them.
I think he is the second best D after Jones.

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