HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Notices

Trading Up Part II: The Midnight Barkov

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-13-2013, 10:37 AM
  #351
Der Jaeger
Registered User
 
Der Jaeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 1,981
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
if that XXXX is Myers... then I think it's very tempting to Colorado...

Roy gets his goalie
Roy gets his pupil
Roy gets a young top 4 blueliner
and they stay in the "high end prospect" range

Sounds like the type of "wow them" package that would be hard to pass up

On a side note.... I'm always including Myers in these "trade up #1" scenarios. Does anyone think Regier might have Myers as completely untouchable?
I do. I think Regier might be wise to see what Myers does with an off season conditioning program and with Rolston as coach. I'm more inclined to move Pysyk.

Der Jaeger is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 10:41 AM
  #352
Karate Johnson
Zemgus is my Copilot
 
Karate Johnson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBriere48 View Post
Anyone else feel like Devine's comments are being taken a bit too far?
I think Devine should have not said anything. Since Pegula got here various entities in the organization have said various things about hockey heaven, and winning a cup.

We have attempted to sign a franchise center in Richards, we tried to throw a boatload of cash and Parise and Suter. We tried to be stupid an sign Doan. I think I remember we tried to trade for Staal too.

Basically none of what Pegula and the Sabres have attempted to do has been successful.



Now Devine has the fans all worked up again for something that is unlikely to work out, and once again the team will fail and be stuck with plan B or C.

Karate Johnson is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 10:56 AM
  #353
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,841
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
On a side note.... I'm always including Myers in these "trade up #1" scenarios. Does anyone think Regier might have Myers as completely untouchable?
Everybody's touchable for a price, but I doubt Regier sees the value in giving up Myers as part of a deal that includes Grigorenko, #8, #16, etc.

I don't think Regier sees Myers as a top 4 defenseman. I think he sees him as a potential Pronger/Chara type (which, if it turned true, is probably more valuable to a cup contender than a stud #1C). If he doesn't, he doesn't sign him to that big deal. And Regier is notoriously patient with players - that doesn't change no matter how much money you give him to play with.

So even if the odds of Myers turning out to be that Pronger/Chara type have dropped considerably, I doubt Regier lets him go as a sweetener. I think Myers is probably worth as much to him as Vanek, Miller and Grigorenko put together.

haseoke39 is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 11:06 AM
  #354
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Everybody's touchable for a price, but I doubt Regier sees the value in giving up Myers as part of a deal that includes Grigorenko, #8, #16, etc.

I don't think Regier sees Myers as a top 4 defenseman. I think he sees him as a potential Pronger/Chara type (which, if it turned true, is probably more valuable to a cup contender than a stud #1C). If he doesn't, he doesn't sign him to that big deal. And Regier is notoriously patient with players - that doesn't change no matter how much money you give him to play with.

So even if the odds of Myers turning out to be that Pronger/Chara type have dropped considerably, I doubt Regier lets him go as a sweetener. I think Myers is probably worth as much to him as Vanek, Miller and Grigorenko put together.
I doubt Regier is that stupid
(the proper "awesome ceiling" comparison is Scott Niedermayer + 7 inches)

Jame is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 11:12 AM
  #355
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,841
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I doubt Regier is that stupid
(the proper "awesome ceiling" comparison is Scott Niedermayer + 7 inches)
I don't know. Scott Neidermayer plus 7 inches would also be a pretty fearsome shutdown guy. Having that size and reach in your own zone, even if your #1 skill isn't thrashing people, makes you pretty formidable back there. I might argue that a 7 inch taller Scott Neidermayer would be a lot better than Chara or Pronger.

Chara isn't Scott Stevens by nature back there. He just happens to be so ******* big that he has a similar effect incidentally.

haseoke39 is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 11:14 AM
  #356
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
I don't know. Scott Neidermayer plus 7 inches would also be a pretty fearsome shutdown guy. Having that size and reach in your own zone, even if your #1 skill isn't thrashing people, makes you pretty formidable back there. I might argue that a 7 inch taller Scott Neidermayer would be a lot better than Chara or Pronger.

Chara isn't Scott Stevens by nature back there. He just happens to be so ******* big that he has a similar effect incidentally.
The point is, Chara/Pronger are bad comparisons..

Jame is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 11:19 AM
  #357
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,841
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
The point is, Chara/Pronger are bad comparisons..
Maybe so. But value is value, I suppose, so even if Regier thinks of it in different terms, I think he sees Myers as a future franchise player of some variety. I think he sees him as a guy who can develop into a player that wins a Conn Smythe, to put it into more general terms.

I think it'll be difficult to get him thrown into a package that's already approaching fair value. Far easier to get most other assets in this organization.

haseoke39 is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 11:22 AM
  #358
OkimLom
Registered User
 
OkimLom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,249
vCash: 500
All this talk about moving up really puts one thought in my mind:

I really wish the Sabres went into rebuild mode faster.

OkimLom is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 11:26 AM
  #359
hughdreamz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 1,006
vCash: 500
Hey guys Avs fan here just want to add to the dialogue. For me it will definitely take more than your 2 first rounders. Adding Myers and Miller sadly does not do much either. I personally would love to have Myers but the Avs are still hurting from Erik Johnson not panning out. Myers had a great rookie season but has been really rough since. The Avs won't trade away the #1 for a project. Then Miller has been below average of late. His best years are behind him. Plus his contract is a lot to eat. It's going to be hard for Buffalo to land the #1. For me, it would be easier, but you will have to massively overpay for it for Avs management to say yes.

hughdreamz is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 11:28 AM
  #360
Karate Johnson
Zemgus is my Copilot
 
Karate Johnson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,616
vCash: 500
No offense, but how do you know what Avs management wants?

Karate Johnson is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 11:28 AM
  #361
struckbyaparkedcar
Zemgus Da Gawd
 
struckbyaparkedcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Country: Cote DIvoire
Posts: 10,519
vCash: 500
Pronger not as much, because he had issues bulking up similar to Myers, but their styles of play are totally different.

struckbyaparkedcar is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 11:33 AM
  #362
hughdreamz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 1,006
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
No offense, but how do you know what Avs management wants?
I'm just saying they're not stupid enough to take the risk on Myers and the pay of Miller. Plus Roy wants to win now. He doesn't want to rebuild once again so two 1st rounders aren't as appealing to us as a team that is rebuilding. I'm just reading it as I see it. Like I said, I'd take the risk on Myers, but idk if the Avs will after Johnson. For a deal to excite the Avs for the franchises first 1st overall pick, it will have to be an overpayment.

hughdreamz is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 11:35 AM
  #363
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughdreamz View Post
Hey guys Avs fan here just want to add to the dialogue. For me it will definitely take more than your 2 first rounders. Adding Myers and Miller sadly does not do much either. I personally would love to have Myers but the Avs are still hurting from Erik Johnson not panning out. Myers had a great rookie season but has been really rough since. The Avs won't trade away the #1 for a project. Then Miller has been below average of late. His best years are behind him. Plus his contract is a lot to eat. It's going to be hard for Buffalo to land the #1. For me, it would be easier, but you will have to massively overpay for it for Avs management to say yes.
i bet Roy's views on Miller are different than yours

Jame is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 11:39 AM
  #364
Karate Johnson
Zemgus is my Copilot
 
Karate Johnson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughdreamz View Post
I'm just saying they're not stupid enough to take the risk on Myers and the pay of Miller. Plus Roy wants to win now. He doesn't want to rebuild once again so two 1st rounders aren't as appealing to us as a team that is rebuilding. I'm just reading it as I see it. Like I said, I'd take the risk on Myers, but idk if the Avs will after Johnson. For a deal to excite the Avs for the franchises first 1st overall pick, it will have to be an overpayment.
If the Avs are in win now mode what is a better use of 1 asset (#1 pick). Draft one 17 year old, or get an NHL defenseman with tremendous upside, 2 picks and a legitimate franchise goalie.

Millers salary is not an issue. If the Sabres have a deal involving Miller to COL we will pay half his salary to make it happen.

Karate Johnson is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 11:43 AM
  #365
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,841
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughdreamz View Post
I'm just saying they're not stupid enough to take the risk on Myers and the pay of Miller. Plus Roy wants to win now. He doesn't want to rebuild once again so two 1st rounders aren't as appealing to us as a team that is rebuilding. I'm just reading it as I see it. Like I said, I'd take the risk on Myers, but idk if the Avs will after Johnson. For a deal to excite the Avs for the franchises first 1st overall pick, it will have to be an overpayment.
What if Vanek and Ehrhoff were on the table? That would get you quite a bit closer to win now mode.

8 + 16 + Vanek + Ehrhoff.

haseoke39 is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 11:43 AM
  #366
Karate Johnson
Zemgus is my Copilot
 
Karate Johnson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,616
vCash: 500
Also, after watching video and sleeping on it, I have given the Ok to trading up for Mackinnon using both firsts, and any 2 players/prospects.

Mostly because, as I said above, something needs to work for Buffalo. We have settled every year, failing to get our targets in the offseason.

Karate Johnson is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 11:44 AM
  #367
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
Also, after watching video and sleeping on it, I have given the Ok to trading up for Mackinnon using both firsts, and any 2 players/prospects.

Mostly because, as I said above, something needs to work for Buffalo. We have settled every year, failing to get our targets in the offseason.
welcome to the club

Jame is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 11:44 AM
  #368
gallagt01
Registered User
 
gallagt01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sloan
Posts: 8,333
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
If the Avs are in win now mode what is a better use of 1 asset (#1 pick). Draft one 17 year old, or get an NHL defenseman with tremendous upside, 2 picks and a legitimate franchise goalie.

Millers salary is not an issue. If the Sabres have a deal involving Miller to COL we will pay half his salary to make it happen.
I don't think Colorado will care that Buffalo will retain salary on Miller (or Vanek). After one year he'll be making just as much, and they'll have to pony up.

gallagt01 is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 11:45 AM
  #369
Karate Johnson
Zemgus is my Copilot
 
Karate Johnson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
What if Vanek and Ehrhoff were on the table? That would get you quite a bit closer to win now mode.

8 + 16 + Vanek + Ehrhoff.
How about Vanek, Miller and Myers? If picks aren't a priority.. Also, send back your worst contract, we eat that **** for lunch, son!

Karate Johnson is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 11:46 AM
  #370
Karate Johnson
Zemgus is my Copilot
 
Karate Johnson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gallagt01 View Post
I don't think Colorado will care that Buffalo will retain salary on Miller (or Vanek). After one year he'll be making just as much, and they'll have to pony up.
And Colorado will have a year to get thier salary right. And you can send us your worst contract along with #1

Karate Johnson is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 11:49 AM
  #371
Gabrielor
14-15 Goal: McDavid
 
Gabrielor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 702
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughdreamz View Post
I'm just saying they're not stupid enough to take the risk on Myers and the pay of Miller. Plus Roy wants to win now. He doesn't want to rebuild once again so two 1st rounders aren't as appealing to us as a team that is rebuilding. I'm just reading it as I see it. Like I said, I'd take the risk on Myers, but idk if the Avs will after Johnson. For a deal to excite the Avs for the franchises first 1st overall pick, it will have to be an overpayment.
That's fine, and I think if you read through this, and other threads, you'll see that an over-payment is acceptable to us (SOME of us).

Gabrielor is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 12:09 PM
  #372
SabresFanNorthPortFL
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: North Port, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 1,753
vCash: 500
Couple things....

1. Miller. It's really tough seeing where he could actually fit on another team, one of last posters said Pitt & Phoenix...sure but I see Philly now. They are massively over the cap with Streit, too much speculation about Briere & Bryz to not think they will be bought out. If/when that happens Miller and Sekera for Coutiere, Miller with reduced salary.

2. The only trade that can be looked back on is the Lindros deal, and it worked out for both teams. Que/Col won multiple cups, and Philly did go to the finals before concussions ruined Lindros' career. I can't blame injuries for the trade to be a failure bc Lindros was a franchise center who elevated that team for several years to be contenders, hence the massive overpayment was a success.

So, that's how I'd see the Avalanche selling trading the #1 pick, don't worry we won multiple cups bc we did this before. Who cares what some reporter says.

Third. Yeah, I'd probably throw the farm to get an elite player. Pick two players/prospects, pick two picks (including #1 next year) and see where that goes. But, if we do land Mac, I'd like Vanek signed long term. You'd think one of Coho, Ennis or Grigs would be going to Colorado so Vanek could finally play with an elite center. Obviously, all this would be completed by July 1st and if by that date Vanek, Coutiere & Mac were in the fold long term, retool would be very on it's way, add a dman and couple solid bottom six guys with character and we'd be an up and coming team.

Just my two cents

SabresFanNorthPortFL is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 12:21 PM
  #373
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,841
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresFanNorthPortFL View Post
The only trade that can be looked back on is the Lindros deal, and it worked out for both teams.
I don't think anyone can argue that Philly wouldn't have been better off if they didn't make that deal. Forsberg was at least as good a player as Lindros, probably better. Their injury concerns were equivalent.

Then there were about 80 more pieces to that deal that they could've parlayed into a better supporting cast. Maybe *gasp* a goaltender. If Philly doesn't make that deal, I say the odds are substantially better that they have another cup banner.

haseoke39 is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 12:28 PM
  #374
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 32,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresFanNorthPortFL View Post
Couple things....

1. Miller. It's really tough seeing where he could actually fit on another team, one of last posters said Pitt & Phoenix...sure but I see Philly now. They are massively over the cap with Streit, too much speculation about Briere & Bryz to not think they will be bought out. If/when that happens Miller and Sekera for Coutiere, Miller with reduced salary.

2. The only trade that can be looked back on is the Lindros deal, and it worked out for both teams. Que/Col won multiple cups, and Philly did go to the finals before concussions ruined Lindros' career. I can't blame injuries for the trade to be a failure bc Lindros was a franchise center who elevated that team for several years to be contenders, hence the massive overpayment was a success.

So, that's how I'd see the Avalanche selling trading the #1 pick, don't worry we won multiple cups bc we did this before. Who cares what some reporter says.

Third. Yeah, I'd probably throw the farm to get an elite player. Pick two players/prospects, pick two picks (including #1 next year) and see where that goes. But, if we do land Mac, I'd like Vanek signed long term. You'd think one of Coho, Ennis or Grigs would be going to Colorado so Vanek could finally play with an elite center. Obviously, all this would be completed by July 1st and if by that date Vanek, Coutiere & Mac were in the fold long term, retool would be very on it's way, add a dman and couple solid bottom six guys with character and we'd be an up and coming team.

Just my two cents
The big difference though is that was the pre-cap era. So Philly could go out and buy the rest of the players they needed. Pegula may have a bottomless pit of money but the cap prevents us from doing what Philly did to rebuild their team.

joshjull is offline  
Old
06-13-2013, 12:30 PM
  #375
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
The big difference though is that was the pre-cap era. So Philly could go out and buy the rest of the players they needed. Pegula may have a bottomless pit of money but the cap prevents us from doing what Philly did to rebuild their team.
and player development is at a much better stage in the present than it was back then. So the ability to build depth through the draft, offsets the loss of the "go out a buy players" era.

Jame is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:03 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.