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Trading Up Part II: The Midnight Barkov

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06-15-2013, 12:02 AM
  #526
MagnumForce
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As much as I would like to get MacKinnon, if the Sabres could come away from this draft with Lindholm, Ristolainen and Carrier....I think the draft would be pretty incredible. We would have to maneuver the 16th pick into at least the 7th pick to possibly have a shot at this..... along with moving up a few spots from pick 38 to get Carrier (he could be there at 38 without moving up). I wouldn't mind moving both our 2nds up to the late 1st /early 2nd round range to draft two of the following, depending on who is available.......Carrier, Santini, Klimchuk or Nastasiuk.


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06-15-2013, 12:45 AM
  #527
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Originally Posted by BananaSquad View Post
I see Hodgson becoming Krejci. Gives you 60 points per season, but is clutch in the playoffs and I don't want this organization giving up a player like that.
As someone that watches quite a bit of Bruins games, I wholeheartedly agree. Which is why I would be more than happy with trading up to #4 and grabbing Barkov to be our Bergeron.

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06-15-2013, 10:58 AM
  #528
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Originally Posted by MagnumForce View Post
As much as I would like to get MacKinnon, if the Sabres could come away from this draft with Lindholm, Ristolainen and Carrier....I think the draft would be pretty incredible. We would have to maneuver the 16th pick into at least the 7th pick to possibly have a shot at this..... along with moving up a few spots from pick 38 to get Carrier (he could be there at 38 without moving up). I wouldn't mind moving both our 2nds up to the late 1st /early 2nd round range to draft two of the following, depending on who is available.......Carrier, Santini, Klimchuk or Nastasiuk.
Yeah I agree. I know it would take more than I previously said to move up from 16 but it would still cost a lot less than trying to get 1. I think a lot of people would be thrilled if we got lindholm and ristolainen

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06-15-2013, 11:42 AM
  #529
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Lindholm and Ristolainen would make us immediately a better team, possibly both could play this season.

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06-15-2013, 02:46 PM
  #530
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Barkov and risto would be my dream scenario

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06-15-2013, 02:54 PM
  #531
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Barkov and risto would be my dream scenario
Mine, too. The difference between Mac and Barkov isn't worth the cost it would take to move up. I really do think we could make something work with Nashville around Vanek & the 4th.

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06-15-2013, 05:49 PM
  #532
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Mine, too. The difference between Mac and Barkov isn't worth the cost it would take to move up. I really do think we could make something work with Nashville around Vanek & the 4th.
Agreed, If we can get up to 3 or 4 I think it would be more beneficial to the team, both in the long and short term. I would rather have Drouin or Nichushkin but that's just my opinion, I have Barkov at 5.

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06-15-2013, 06:41 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by sonnEbunny View Post
Agreed, If we can get up to 3 or 4 I think it would be more beneficial to the team, both in the long and short term. I would rather have Drouin or Nichushkin but that's just my opinion, I have Barkov at 5.
I would be furious if Buffalo traded into the top five and took Nichuskin.

That would be the highest the team has picked in a decade. Regier can't afford to take a chance on a guy with some serious question marks. He needs the closest thing to a sure thing there is. That isn't Nichuskin.

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06-15-2013, 06:43 PM
  #534
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I would be furious if Buffalo traded into the top five and took Nichuskin.

That would be the highest the team has picked in a decade. Regier can't afford to take a chance on a guy with some serious question marks. He needs the closest thing to a sure thing there is. That isn't Nichuskin.
Let the scouts and management do their job, they know more about VN then me you and anyone else on this board, if the felt he were worth trading up for then so be it. Being furious about your who your team picks is rather silly.

Remember when Minnesota fans were upset that they took Brodin? Or when Esposito was a steal for Pittsburgh?

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06-15-2013, 07:14 PM
  #535
gallagt01
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Let the scouts and management do their job, they know more about VN then me you and anyone else on this board, if the felt he were worth trading up for then so be it. Being furious about your who your team picks is rather silly.
Is voicing my opinion on a message board really hindering scout's/management's ability to do their job?

As for the last line, that's ridiculous. Fans can be upset over what they believe is a poor draft choice all they want - especially when scouts are wrong plenty of times, too (I can cherry pick scenarios just like you did: Kryukov, Heisten, Novotny, Zagrapan, Persson).

To take a rather extreme route, if the Pens took, say, Pouliot over Crosby in the '05 draft, and you were a Pens fan, you wouldn't be upset? Because the "scouts are just doing their job"?

We all have opinions on certain players because we've watched them play or put some work in to learn about their game. I don't care if it's not as credible of an opinion as that of a scout, it's still an opinion.

And if the team TRADES UP (giving up additional assets) and takes Nichuskin, when prospects like Drouin, Barkov and Lindholm may be available, it's a bad move.

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06-15-2013, 07:20 PM
  #536
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http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?p...0#.Ubz2SPlQER4

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?p...0#.Ubz2XvlQER4

Had to share the Hockeybuzz Mock draft as it is almost a dream come true for the Sabres

8.) BUFFALO SABRES -- C Elias Lindholm, Brynas [Spizziri]

Despite the Buffalo Sabres having talented young pivots currently in Tyler Ennis and Cody Hodgson, along with last year's first round pick in Mikhail Grigorenko, the two-way talents of Lindholm will be too difficult for the Sabres to pass up after Darnell Nurse falls off the board thanks to Mr. Yost at #7. Playing in the Swedish Elite League mostly on the wing as a teenager, the natural centreman Lindholm impressed enough at both ends of the rink this season for the media in Sweden to begin comparing him to the great Peter Forsberg. Lofty comparisons indeed.


16.) BUFFALO SABRES -- W Valentin Zykov, Baie-Comeau [French]

The QMJHL and CHL Rookie of the Year like most of the other players I’ve picked in this mock draft is a two-way player with scoring ability. He was one of the top goal scorers in the Q with 40 and only two draft eligible players scored more (18 year old draft eligibles) Mantha and Drouin. Zykov plays with a physical edge to his game and finishes his checks to go along with being one of the hardest working guys on the boards in the CHL. He was one of the big reasons why Baie-Comeau got to the finals against Halifax with his great playoff performance (yet again only two other draft eligibles outscored him, Drouin and MacKinnon).

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06-15-2013, 10:28 PM
  #537
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Josh Rimer ‏@JoshRimerHockey 20m
Elliotte Friedman from HNIC on Hot Stove just said talk is Flames offered all 3 first rounders for Avalanche's 1st overall pick, Avs said no

Link: https://twitter.com/JoshRimerHockey/...86817021448193

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06-15-2013, 10:39 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by Woodhouse View Post
Josh Rimer ‏@JoshRimerHockey 20m
Elliotte Friedman from HNIC on Hot Stove just said talk is Flames offered all 3 first rounders for Avalanche's 1st overall pick, Avs said no

Link: https://twitter.com/JoshRimerHockey/...86817021448193
Not terribly surprising IMO. If it's true that Roy wants to kickstart the franchise sooner rather than later, I can see why three 1st round picks in an upcoming draft would get shot down.

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06-15-2013, 10:40 PM
  #539
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Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
Let the scouts and management do their job, they know more about VN then me you and anyone else on this board, if the felt he were worth trading up for then so be it. Being furious about your who your team picks is rather silly.

Remember when Minnesota fans were upset that they took Brodin? Or when Esposito was a steal for Pittsburgh?
What a crock of chicken broth....

Why don't you put this thread on ignore... That way you dont have to post "the draft can't come soon enough" anymore and we don't have to read your condescending ********?

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06-15-2013, 10:40 PM
  #540
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Originally Posted by Woodhouse View Post
Josh Rimer ‏@JoshRimerHockey 20m
Elliotte Friedman from HNIC on Hot Stove just said talk is Flames offered all 3 first rounders for Avalanche's 1st overall pick, Avs said no

Link: https://twitter.com/JoshRimerHockey/...86817021448193
Not surprised, it's a pretty ****** offer. Calgary doesn't really have any roster players to dangle to Colorado besides Baertschi either. Just points more to someone like Hodgson needing to be included for Colorado to have any interest from Buffalo.

I can just picture Jay Feaster in a room wondering why his offer didn't work and then telling everyone that Calgary is now looking to trade down.

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06-15-2013, 10:57 PM
  #541
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Not surprised, it's a pretty ****** offer. Calgary doesn't really have any roster players to dangle to Colorado besides Baertschi either. Just points more to someone like Hodgson needing to be included for Colorado to have any interest from Buffalo.

I can just picture Jay Feaster in a room wondering why his offer didn't work and then telling everyone that Calgary is now looking to trade down.
Or it could be an F you to Feaster for Offer sheeting RoR.

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06-15-2013, 11:33 PM
  #542
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Originally Posted by boots electric View Post
Not terribly surprising IMO. If it's true that Roy wants to kickstart the franchise sooner rather than later, I can see why three 1st round picks in an upcoming draft would get shot down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moskau View Post
Not surprised, it's a pretty ****** offer. Calgary doesn't really have any roster players to dangle to Colorado besides Baertschi either. Just points more to someone like Hodgson needing to be included for Colorado to have any interest from Buffalo.

I can just picture Jay Feaster in a room wondering why his offer didn't work and then telling everyone that Calgary is now looking to trade down.
It's not surprising, especially since, per the OP, 81 != 100 .. just an indication of how much you actually have to give up to get someone to consider leaving that spot .. FWIW, #2 is valued at 70 in the OP.

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06-15-2013, 11:58 PM
  #543
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Sounds like they want actual players also. Advantage Buffalo.

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06-16-2013, 03:41 AM
  #544
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Is voicing my opinion on a message board really hindering scout's/management's ability to do their job?

As for the last line, that's ridiculous. Fans can be upset over what they believe is a poor draft choice all they want - especially when scouts are wrong plenty of times, too (I can cherry pick scenarios just like you did: Kryukov, Heisten, Novotny, Zagrapan, Persson).

To take a rather extreme route, if the Pens took, say, Pouliot over Crosby in the '05 draft, and you were a Pens fan, you wouldn't be upset? Because the "scouts are just doing their job"?

We all have opinions on certain players because we've watched them play or put some work in to learn about their game. I don't care if it's not as credible of an opinion as that of a scout, it's still an opinion.

And if the team TRADES UP (giving up additional assets) and takes Nichuskin, when prospects like Drouin, Barkov and Lindholm may be available, it's a bad move.
I don't think that Barkov is going to end up being the type of player many think he will be. He is a #1 center who plays a well rounded game and has a nose for the puck in front of the net but personally I don't think he has the game breaking abilities that Mackinnon, Drouin and Nichuskin have. If I am trading away solid assets to move up into the top 5 I am picking someone with a massive upside. IMO Barkov has less risk than Nich but also has less upside. I want prospects with the potential to win the scoring title in the top 5, Barkov is not that player. I would also be upset if Buffalo traded into the top 5 to select a player not named Mackinnon, Jones, Drouin or Nichushkin.

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06-16-2013, 08:08 AM
  #545
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Originally Posted by sonnEbunny View Post
I don't think that Barkov is going to end up being the type of player many think he will be. He is a #1 center who plays a well rounded game and has a nose for the puck in front of the net but personally I don't think he has the game breaking abilities that Mackinnon, Drouin and Nichuskin have. If I am trading away solid assets to move up into the top 5 I am picking someone with a massive upside. IMO Barkov has less risk than Nich but also has less upside. I want prospects with the potential to win the scoring title in the top 5, Barkov is not that player. I would also be upset if Buffalo traded into the top 5 to select a player not named Mackinnon, Jones, Drouin or Nichushkin.
:joshjull: How much more dominant did youtr want him to be?? Top center on one of the best teams in a professional men's league at 17 years old wasnt good enough? And you think Nichushkin is worth it? w t f?

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06-16-2013, 10:38 AM
  #546
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Originally Posted by sonnEbunny View Post
I don't think that Barkov is going to end up being the type of player many think he will be. He is a #1 center who plays a well rounded game and has a nose for the puck in front of the net but personally I don't think he has the game breaking abilities that Mackinnon, Drouin and Nichuskin have. If I am trading away solid assets to move up into the top 5 I am picking someone with a massive upside. IMO Barkov has less risk than Nich but also has less upside. I want prospects with the potential to win the scoring title in the top 5, Barkov is not that player. I would also be upset if Buffalo traded into the top 5 to select a player not named Mackinnon, Jones, Drouin or Nichushkin.
Barkov's game translates to the NHL just as well as Mackinnon's and better than the other forwards.

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06-16-2013, 10:39 AM
  #547
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I can't see Colorado making any trade that takes them out of the top-3 or 4, regardless of the roster player(s) they receive. It makes sense that they wouldn't want to miss out on seven years of team control over a potential franchise player like MacKinnon, Drouin, Barkov, or Jones.

If they want a shot at #1, Buffalo needs to convince Tampa or Nashville to trade out of #3 or #4. I believe the odds are long that the Sabres will be able to move up from #8. My gut tells me they'll draft at #8, and then try to use #16 and one of their 2nd rounders to move up to the 11-13 range.

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06-16-2013, 11:33 AM
  #548
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I'd love to know the return on:

16th & Stafford
16th & Sekera
16th & Vanek
16th & Miller

Or any of the above as a starting point.

What would any of those packages get us, ESP if the Philly buy outs happen. 16th, Miller (50%) & Sekera for Courtier & Read, use 8th on top dman (Roist), put the "C" on Vanek with an extension. Trade one of the guys we've been putting in every proposal for a young top dman and its a quick retool, not a rebuild.

If we don't trade for a dman, we have this year to look at the team, ESP the goalies and tinker for next year but:

Vanek - Coho - Stafford
Ennis -Grigs - Armia
Girgs - Courtier - Read
Flynn - Larson - Kaleta
Ott (could be kept, traded,etc)
Porter, Leino

That's not a bad start for 2014-15, and allows a good bit leeway with trades/tweaks.

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06-16-2013, 11:41 AM
  #549
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I can't see Colorado making any trade that takes them out of the top-3 or 4, regardless of the roster player(s) they receive. It makes sense that they wouldn't want to miss out on seven years of team control over a potential franchise player like MacKinnon, Drouin, Barkov, or Jones.
That certainly was the point being emphasized by Adrian Dater on WGR this week - that the Avs have to get 1 of the top 3 rated prospects (Jones, MacKinnon or Drouin).

Quote:
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If they want a shot at #1, Buffalo needs to convince Tampa or Nashville to trade out of #3 or #4.
Having read of the cap issues the Lightning will be faced with this summer, I wonder if they would be willing to drop from 3 to 8 if the Sabres absorbed a bad contract and offered a few young cheap players i.e.

To Tpa:
Ennis, Foligno & # 8 (Sabres absorb $1M of Ennis' cap hit)

To Buf:
Malone & # 3

Tampa can obviously buy Malone's contract out if they have to but it sounds like teams would prefer to dump the full obligation of a contract on another team before resorting to the amnesty option. The Lightning still could end up with Lindholm or Monahan at # 8 and add two young wingers that can help their team now.

Sabres really don't need a past-his-prime Malone but if taking him on (a la Kotalik in 2011) means they'd move up and either can offer the 3rd to Colorado to guarantee MacKinnon or just use the 3rd to nab Drouin would make it worthwhile. Maybe Malone can fill a role for a year but if not, he could always be waived or demoted.

Quote:
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I believe the odds are long that the Sabres will be able to move up from #8. My gut tells me they'll draft at #8, and then try to use #16 and one of their 2nd rounders to move up to the 11-13 range.
I tend to have the same feeling - primarily because for all of his posturing and admissions to the media, Regier always seems to fall short in consummating the high-profile moves. I understand that he can't control all of the circumstances and what other teams want/accept but there's ample clues that his conservative, procrastinative MO rarely helps the process.

As such, I can see them just using # 8 & # 16 and celebrating whomever they pick as great additions to the rebuilding process.

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06-16-2013, 11:50 AM
  #550
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yes, Risto #6 prospect on my board

Risto is better now, better all around, against better competition, off charts Hockey IQ

I wouldn't draft Nurse... I have him ranked 19th... he's the most overrated prospect in the draft.
I agree I cringe at the thought of him wearing a sabres uniform, however I still think a team ahead of buffalo will fall in love with a player pushing one of the forwards back, happens EACH AND EVERY SINGLE YEAR.
Picks 6-12 last year (Forsberg)
Picks 5-12 2012(Fowler/Gormley)

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