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06-10-2013, 11:46 AM
  #1
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Tor - edm



JVR
Mikhail Grabovski
Jake Gardiner / Carl Gunnarsson
Conditional 2013 1st if EDM fans start ****** me in this thread.



Sam Gagner
Nail Yakupov

Fair Value?

I've seen some EDM fans in previous threads accept a Hamonic + Okposo deal for Yakupov. Personally I believe a JVR + Gardiner/Gunnarsson would be a good deal for them to accept as well, and JVR/Okposo and Hamonic/Gardiner or Gunnarsson are players of similar value imo. Grabovski is an excellent 2nd line center that would fit well in EDM.

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06-10-2013, 11:47 AM
  #2
Pierce Hawthorne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilina View Post


JVR
Mikhail Grabovski
Jake Gardiner / Carl Gunnarsson



Sam Gagner
Nail Yakupov

Fair Value?

I've seen some EDM fans in previous threads accept a Hamonic + Okposo deal for Yakupov. Personally I believe a JVR + Gardiner/Gunnarsson would be a good deal for them to accept as well, and JVR/Okposo and Hamonic/Gardiner or Gunnarsson are players of similar value imo. Grabovski is an excellent 2nd line center that would fit well in EDM.


Nope, not even close.

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06-10-2013, 11:49 AM
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Yakupov isn't being moved for pieces. If he were to be moved it would be for a guy with fairly close value straight across. Nice attempt at building a fair offer though. At least you used valuable pieces.

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06-10-2013, 11:53 AM
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I don't think it's terrible value, but I still like Yakupov better than those players.

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Old
06-10-2013, 12:03 PM
  #5
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I think leaf fans will want either Hall or Eberle added from the Oiler side. Just a guess

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06-10-2013, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcrazycanuck View Post
I think leaf fans will want either Hall or Eberle added from the Oiler side. Just a guess
I'm a Leafs fan and I proposed this soooooo.

I wouldn't mind redoing the original deal for Gagner + Eberle, although I wouldn't be adding Gardiner/Gunnarsson.

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06-10-2013, 12:16 PM
  #7
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The Leafs need a #1C and a #2RHD to pair with Dion... this trade gives up significant assets and solves none of these problems.

No thanks.

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06-10-2013, 12:22 PM
  #8
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Gagner - Grabo is pretty much a wash ...2 top end 60pt players on their best day.

JVR former #2 pick, above average size, strength, speed, shot ...still leave much to be desired on effort in non playoff games
Gardner still coming into his own, superb puck carrier, still untapped potential since he hasn't really been playing defense for very long

for

Yakupov explosive, smallish (similar injury status as JVR) high end skilled (no the next Pavel Bure)

not that bad a deal. ...key player is likely Gardner who can tip the scale one way or the other

...as far as point production, I think Yakupov in 2-3 seasons will outproduce JVR, but, still expect JVR to be a 30g/40a player, while I see Yakupov more likely a 40/40 potential player ...thing is, Gardner will likely be a 40+ pt d-man as soon as next season.

I don't think the trade helps the Leafs as much as it helps the Oilers.

RNH is the player the Leafs would want, and the last player the Oil should deal.

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06-10-2013, 12:24 PM
  #9
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No from the Oilers perspective. When you're trading players that have the potential to be stars (i.e. Yakupov), you need to up your value considerably.

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06-10-2013, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
The Leafs need a #1C and a #2RHD to pair with Dion... this trade gives up significant assets and solves none of these problems.

No thanks.
I personally believe that Gagner would be a 1C in TOR, and he's only 23. He hasn't ever played with elite talent like Kessel, getting 1st line minutes. He'd definitely be an upgrade on Bozak anyways.

It also gives us more options to acquire a #1D. While JVR + Gardiner probably wouldn't get us a #1D to play with Phaneuf, Kessel (assuming Yakupov pans out) will.

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06-10-2013, 12:32 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte View Post
Gagner - Grabo is pretty much a wash ...2 top end 60pt players on their best day.

JVR former #2 pick, above average size, strength, speed, shot ...still leave much to be desired on effort in non playoff games
Gardner still coming into his own, superb puck carrier, still untapped potential since he hasn't really been playing defense for very long

for

Yakupov explosive, smallish (similar injury status as JVR) high end skilled (no the next Pavel Bure)

not that bad a deal. ...key player is likely Gardner who can tip the scale one way or the other

...as far as point production, I think Yakupov in 2-3 seasons will outproduce JVR, but, still expect JVR to be a 30g/40a player, while I see Yakupov more likely a 40/40 potential player ...thing is, Gardner will likely be a 40+ pt d-man as soon as next season.

I don't think the trade helps the Leafs as much as it helps the Oilers.

RNH is the player the Leafs would want, and the last player the Oil should deal.
Yakupov probably tops out as a 60 goal scorer although yes more likely he'll be a 40-50 goal scorer who puts up 75-100 points each year.

I don't think Gardiner will be a 40 point Dman next season anyways, in 2 or maybe 3 seasons, yes he could be. But he's also had concussion problems and could end up being a 20 point player the rest of his career, though that isn't likely either.

Plus Lupul - Gagner - Kessel right now is a better 1st line than we have now, and Yakupov - Kadri/Gagner - Kessel/Gagner is a sick future first line.

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06-10-2013, 12:37 PM
  #12
The Nuge
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We're finally getting rid of Horcoff's contract. Why would we want Grabovski?

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06-10-2013, 12:42 PM
  #13
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If the Oilers are trading Yakupov, the centerpiece of the deal needs to be a whole lot better than JVR or Gardiner. I personally wouldn't do Yakupov alone for that package, let alone add in Gagner. We don't want Grabovski's millstone contract, I'd much rather pay a 23 year old Gagner who's finally showing signs of what made him a top 10 pick than a 29 year old Grabovski who has peaked. Gagner will probably end up earning less anyway and is a slightly better player atm. Take out Gagner and Grabovski and make it Eberle instead and I wouldn't be opposed to the deal. Eberle for JVR+Gardiner+conditional 1st is something I would consider. (and no that package doesn't get you anywhere near RNH or Yakupov and certainly not Hall)

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06-10-2013, 12:48 PM
  #14
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Toronto says a big no to this.

Gagner and Grabo are fairly similar for value (especially when Gagner gets his RFA pay day coming up).

I would not give up JVR Gardiner 1st for Yakupov.

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06-10-2013, 12:48 PM
  #15
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Value is decent but I don't see why the Leafs do this.

We're giving up semi-established players for Yak and another depth center that doesn't fill our #1C requirement. Sure, you can argue Gagner can develop into one but we already have Kadri who has equal if not better upside.

Phaneuf and Kessel are headed into UFA next off-season. This only sets our re-build/re-tool back further and doesn't fill any holes for us. We have enough depth centers. Hell, our coach doesn't even utilize a legit #2C in Grabo properly by putting him in a #3C checking role.

Yak is the most valuable piece in this deal but it's one of those trades where we're banking on the notion that he develops into a superstar, jeopardizing our current and existing growth- on an already extremely young and developing team. Not to mention I personally don't think Yak has that type of upside.

Again, value-wise, it isn't terrible. Taking into the account the trajectory of this team moving forward and all the other variables and it isn't a deal that is semi-realistic.

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06-10-2013, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
We're finally getting rid of Horcoff's contract. Why would we want Grabovski?
Because he currently is a much better player than Horcoff and has 5 years left before he's Horcoff's age?

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06-10-2013, 12:51 PM
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The Nuge
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Originally Posted by Lilina View Post
Because he currently is a much better player than Horcoff and has 5 years left before he's Horcoff's age?
His cap hit is disgusting. Maybe if you guys retained a big chunk of it... I'm still not sure though

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06-10-2013, 12:52 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
If the Oilers are trading Yakupov, the centerpiece of the deal needs to be a whole lot better than JVR or Gardiner. I personally wouldn't do Yakupov alone for that package, let alone add in Gagner. We don't want Grabovski's millstone contract, I'd much rather pay a 23 year old Gagner who's finally showing signs of what made him a top 10 pick than a 29 year old Grabovski who has peaked. Gagner will probably end up earning less anyway and is a slightly better player atm. Take out Gagner and Grabovski and make it Eberle instead and I wouldn't be opposed to the deal. Eberle for JVR+Gardiner+conditional 1st is something I would consider. (and no that package doesn't get you anywhere near RNH or Yakupov and certainly not Hall)
I would do JVR + 1st for Eberle. Wouldn't do JVR + Gardiner + 1st or hell just JVR + Gardiner.

Gagner also isn't a better player than Grabo atm. Younger with higher upside yes, better, no.

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06-10-2013, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Toronto says a big no to this.

Gagner and Grabo are fairly similar for value (especially when Gagner gets his RFA pay day coming up).

I would not give up JVR Gardiner 1st for Yakupov.
JVR + Gardiner is the deal, the 1st was mainly just a joke, although I'd consider putting it in.

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06-10-2013, 12:59 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilina View Post
Gagner also isn't a better player than Grabo atm. Younger with higher upside yes, better, no.
Lol what? Gagner had more than DOUBLE Grabovski's points this year. When you look at what they were on pace for in a full season, you're going to try and say a 27 point guy is better than a 65 point guy? Grabovski is a little better defensively, but he'd have to be bringing Selke calibre defense to make up for that

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06-10-2013, 12:59 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilina View Post
I personally believe that Gagner would be a 1C in TOR, and he's only 23. He hasn't ever played with elite talent like Kessel, getting 1st line minutes. He'd definitely be an upgrade on Bozak anyways.

It also gives us more options to acquire a #1D. While JVR + Gardiner probably wouldn't get us a #1D to play with Phaneuf, Kessel (assuming Yakupov pans out) will.

I completely disagree. This team's issue isn't scoring goals, it's keeping them out of our own net, so why you think bringing in Gagner and Yak would help us is a mystery to me.

Additionally, our top 6 becomes worse in some key areas after this trade. Not only do we replace Bozak's 15-18 goals with Gagner's 20 goals at a tremendous cost, but we become smaller, poorer defensively and weaker on the faceoff dot. The largest player in our top 6 goes to Edmonton in this trade too.

So to sum it up. We slightly increase our offense, but become smaller, easier to play against and take a step back defensively.

It's a very poor trade for Toronto.

Toronto needs to get bigger in the top 6 and add more talent to the defense. Please focus your creative thoughts on solving those issues.

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06-10-2013, 01:01 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstemperor View Post
Value is decent but I don't see why the Leafs do this.

We're giving up semi-established players for Yak and another depth center that doesn't fill our #1C requirement. Sure, you can argue Gagner can develop into one but we already have Kadri who has equal if not better upside.

Phaneuf and Kessel are headed into UFA next off-season. This only sets our re-build/re-tool back further and doesn't fill any holes for us. We have enough depth centers. Hell, our coach doesn't even utilize a legit #2C in Grabo properly by putting him in a #3C checking role.

Yak is the most valuable piece in this deal but it's one of those trades where we're banking on the notion that he develops into a superstar, jeopardizing our current and existing growth- on an already extremely young and developing team. Not to mention I personally don't think Yak has that type of upside.

Again, value-wise, it isn't terrible. Taking into the account the trajectory of this team moving forward and all the other variables and it isn't a deal that is semi-realistic.
Eh Yakupov from all inclinations will indeed develop into a superstar, or at least a very good player. Kadri could be a #1C, sure. But as someone who watched both of them play a lot (both in Junior, at the Worlds and in the NHL) Gagner just strikes me as someone who could become an elite playmaking center who puts up 70 assists a year. Kadri is more of a player who has a great mix of skill and grit, he drives hard to the net, has a good shot, a good pass, and pretty good vision. He'll also battle in and around the corners. Gagner is a pure skill guy with a bit of defensive upside. His pass is wicked, his vision is amazing and he has a pretty good shot.

I think having Gagner - Kadri - Colborne - McClement is still better than having Bozak - Grabo - Kadri - McClement tbh.

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06-10-2013, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Lol what? Gagner had more than DOUBLE Grabovski's points this year. When you look at what they were on pace for in a full season, you're going to try and say a 27 point guy is better than a 65 point guy? Grabovski is a little better defensively, but he'd have to be bringing Selke calibre defense to make up for that
He was playing on the 1st line with elite talent this year, Grabo was playing on the 3rd line in a shutdown role without a whole lot of scoring talent with him. Besides this season, Grabo has outscored him, mainly in the same role of 2nd line center.

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06-10-2013, 01:06 PM
  #24
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I like Yakupov a lot but I'd think about this one because of JVR being included. Big winger that seems to be coming into his own as far as scoring goes.

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06-10-2013, 01:20 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
I completely disagree. This team's issue isn't scoring goals, it's keeping them out of our own net, so why you think bringing in Gagner and Yak would help us is a mystery to me.

Additionally, our top 6 becomes worse in some key areas after this trade. Not only do we replace Bozak's 15-18 goals with Gagner's 20 goals at a tremendous cost, but we become smaller, poorer defensively and weaker on the faceoff dot. The largest player in our top 6 goes to Edmonton in this trade too.

So to sum it up. We slightly increase our offense, but become smaller, easier to play against and take a step back defensively.

It's a very poor trade for Toronto.

Toronto needs to get bigger in the top 6 and add more talent to the defense. Please focus your creative thoughts on solving those issues.
I definitely agree we need to upgrade our D. And yeah, for 2 years in a row (1 of them a shortened season) we haven't had any trouble scoring goals. Mind you before that we had trouble scoring and defending. Anyway I don't think you can say our top 6 would get worse.

Lupul - Gagner - Kessel
Kulemin - Kadri - Yakupov

That's a lot better imo than what we had this season. We lose size, but gain an elite second line and a much better setup player with Kessel. Gagner's draws aren't that bad. I definitely don't get where you say we only become slightly better offensively...Yakupov as a rookie scored more points than Bozak this year. Gagner scored more points than Grabo this year. Easier to play against? That second line is extremely dangerous and hard to play against, as is the 1st line. Don't think we take that much of a step backwards defensively, although admittedly we do a little bit. Our top 6 weren't exactly defensive studs to begin with, however.

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