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Say goodbye to import goalies as the CHL overreacts to 'Canadian Golatending Crisis'

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Old
06-11-2013, 10:03 AM
  #1
Loosie
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Say goodbye to import goalies as the CHL overreacts to 'Canadian Golatending Crisis'

As per Buzzing the Net:

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/jrh...054158234.html

Teams can select import goalies in the first round this year then never again until they realize how stupid this move is.

Overreaction? I think so. If a Canadian goalie is not good enough to make a CHL team over an import, how do expect them to win at WJC, removing competition does not make one better.

Also it's not like the three leagues were 'overrun' with import goalies.

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06-11-2013, 10:29 AM
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Oh, but this is good for Canadian hockey. More Canadian goalies will make the NHL because there are about a dozen more Junior A/AAA calibre goaltenders getting to be backups in the CHL.

More Junior A/AAA calibre players will get the chance to play, and players will have the chance to hone their skills by shooting on lesser quality goaltenders.

And besides, this makes sense because this is called the Canadian Hockey League. It's meant to be the best junior hockey league in the world a Canadian domestic development league. Keep them commies in their own country.

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06-11-2013, 10:33 AM
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It's a very short sighted solution but I really could care less. The import system in the CHL is ridiculous anyway. These kids are getting quite a bit of compensation to come over here so if this means a team can't purchase a top end goalie from Europe, good.


I bet Don Cherry is giddy

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06-11-2013, 11:31 AM
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How many current NHL starting netminders are Europeans who played in the CHL? I believe the answer is ONE (Ondrej Pavelec). What a ridiculous overreaction.

If the Canadian netminders aren't good enough, teams will choose more Americans, that's all. It doesn't help Canadian goaltending. Better Canadian goaltenders helps Canadian goaltending.

Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

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06-11-2013, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
How many current NHL starting netminders are Europeans who played in the CHL? I believe the answer is ONE (Ondrej Pavelec). What a ridiculous overreaction.

If the Canadian netminders aren't good enough, teams will choose more Americans, that's all. It doesn't help Canadian goaltending. Better Canadian goaltenders helps Canadian goaltending.

Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.
Well, do you consider Halák to be the starter? He played for Lewiston. Also, Neuvirth played in the OHL.

But still, this isn't a problem, and it;s quite possibly the stupidest thing that the CHL has done in quite a while.

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06-11-2013, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taoiseach View Post
Oh, but this is good for Canadian hockey. More Canadian goalies will make the NHL because there are about a dozen more Junior A/AAA calibre goaltenders getting to be backups in the CHL.

More Junior A/AAA calibre players will get the chance to play, and players will have the chance to hone their skills by shooting on lesser quality goaltenders.

And besides, this makes sense because this is called the Canadian Hockey League. It's meant to be the best junior hockey league in the world a Canadian domestic development league. Keep them commies in their own country.
I like this post <3

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06-11-2013, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Raimu View Post
I like this post <3
I know right!

This is an important move! Junior A/AAA goalies will get to play Major Junior, the void that they create in Junior A/AAA will be filled by goalies from Junior B/AA, who will move up and create a void in Junior B/AA. In turn, that void is going to be filled by guys from Junior C/A, and that's going to create a dozen new spots for Canadian goaltenders.

Think of the kid that going to get to fulfil his dream of playing for the Mooretown Flags! The Mooretown Flags!!! And it's all thanks to this crucial bit of unnecessary and kind of racist protectionist policy.

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06-11-2013, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Taoiseach View Post
And it's all thanks to this crucial bit of unnecessary and kind of racist protectionist policy.
I beleive the word your'e looking for is bigot, not racist.

But yes otherwise I agree. If the CHL wants to have the best up and coming talent in it's ranks, it'll have to take the best regardless of location. Now if it wants to be a development league for Canadian talent....then ya by all means go that way, but as (to my knowledge) it's not, it's a bit silly.

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06-11-2013, 12:29 PM
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This won't solve anything, we need to change how we develop players and goalies.

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06-11-2013, 12:39 PM
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Just so silly
I take it this is a reaction to the recent U-20s?

To me, the problem at the U-20 level is that expectations are heaped so ludicrously high, that the young guys unravel under such pressure...hence the rather undisciplined play at the last 3 tournaments...
That, and of course the Canadian media, who annually motivate the other nations, by annointing Canada as winners, before a game has been played.

The Canadian kids are the salt of the Earth and the blood of the NHL but gosh, lets keep the CHL cosmopolitan: lets keep the CHLs "big league" mentality, rather than this very small minded, and rather silly ruling.

To quote my favourite British electronic band, MESH
"What Are You Scared of?"

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06-11-2013, 12:49 PM
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This will not solve anything or make Canadian goalies better. Train them better.

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06-11-2013, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
How many current NHL starting netminders are Europeans who played in the CHL? I believe the answer is ONE (Ondrej Pavelec). What a ridiculous overreaction.

If the Canadian netminders aren't good enough, teams will choose more Americans, that's all. It doesn't help Canadian goaltending. Better Canadian goaltenders helps Canadian goaltending.

Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.
Even with back ups, only Halak and Khubodin played in the CHL. All three guys were drafted from their home leagues too. It's hard to say they were developed at all in Canada. They just got some honing on their skill in their final year.

I really don't see this move as something that will help the development of Canadian goaltenders very much, if at all. None of those 3 Euro goalies that played in the CHL are at the elite of the NHL either. Maybe the CHL just doesn't develop goaltenders well? That alone could be an issue, but I would also imagine that it likely starts with fundamentals learned at a younger age than 16.

You could just as easily make an argument that Canada is as bad at producing wingers as it is with goalies. Most Canadian first round draft picks are either centres or defensemen.

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06-11-2013, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taoiseach View Post
I know right!

This is an important move! Junior A/AAA goalies will get to play Major Junior, the void that they create in Junior A/AAA will be filled by goalies from Junior B/AA, who will move up and create a void in Junior B/AA. In turn, that void is going to be filled by guys from Junior C/A, and that's going to create a dozen new spots for Canadian goaltenders.

Think of the kid that going to get to fulfil his dream of playing for the Mooretown Flags! The Mooretown Flags!!! And it's all thanks to this crucial bit of unnecessary and kind of racist protectionist policy.
I fail to see how this is racist...

The league is called CANADIAN HOCKEY LEAGUE and works in close partnership with Hockey CANADA


I can't tell who is overreacting more, the CHL/Hockey Canada or the fans.



I personally don't think this is going to help goalie development in Canada because the issue is at the grass roots level but some of the comments I've read are hilarious for all the wrong reasons. Most of the people freaking out (not saying all - I'm talking mostly about the twitter idiots) don't even watch Major Junior hockey on a regular basis lol

They talk about how unfair it is yet they ignore the fact that Euro players are able to dictate where they play, get significant off ice benefits from the teams that are recruiting them while guys like Nathan MacKinnon, Sidney Crosby, Connor McDavid and company don't see a dime despite selling tickets at rinks across the country.

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06-11-2013, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
I fail to see how this is racist...

The league is called CANADIAN HOCKEY LEAGUE and works in close partnership with Hockey CANADA
I don't want them commie Slavs comin' intuh mah cuntry and taken jubs from good Canadian boys...

As for the whole part of it being the 'Canadian Hockey League,' if protectionism is more important than excellence, we need to stop considering it the best hockey league in the world, and simply another domestic development league.

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06-11-2013, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Taoiseach View Post
I don't want them commie Slavs comin' intuh mah cuntry and taken jubs from good Canadian boys...

As for the whole part of it being the 'Canadian Hockey League,' if protectionism is more important than excellence, we need to stop considering it the best hockey league in the world, and simply another domestic development league.
Oh that's ******** and you know it. If the best junior hockey league in the world meant literally every single player who was considered the best being in the league, the CHL was failing before this rule was in place due to the amount of Euro's who stay in Sweden, Russia, or even North Americans who go the NCAA route.

I don't see you *****ing about the 2 import per team rule, that's fair but position restrictions aren't I don't see you *****ing about the goalie restrictions in euro leagues that don't allow North Americans to come in and take roster spots from euro goalies. Isn't that "racism"

They've always had import restrictions, they tweaked the rule to not allow goalies. I don't get why you think it's anyone's birth right, whether it be Canadian or Euro to play in the CHL. If the CHL says they can't play, then they can't play. Get over it.




Edit: There are also rules for euros not being allowed to play in Canadian minor hockey leagues unless they're dual citizenship. Daniel Sprong had to play for an Espoir team because he doesn't hold a Canadian passport. Euro players who come to Canada for prep schools can't play Jr. A or B once they're done because of import rules. Why doesn't anyone complain about those? People just complaining for the sake of complaining. If the Canadian Hockey league wants to give Canadians a chance over Euro's, isn't that somewhat logical?


Last edited by Scarecrow Boat: 06-11-2013 at 08:26 PM.
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Old
06-11-2013, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
I don't see you *****ing about the 2 import per team rule,
To be fair, that would be lifted or at least increased if I had my way. At the very least, I'd like to see players no longer being considered imports after two years. I'd like to see teams be allowed to keep their 'home-grown' veterans without further penalty. For example, I would have liked to see the Olympiques be able to keep Jánošík last season, and only have count as an overager, not both.

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I don't see you *****ing about the goalie restrictions in euro leagues that don't allow North Americans to come in and take roster spots from euro goalies. Isn't that "racism"
Sure it is. I think that restricting anyone from playing for a hockey team because of their nationality is stupid.

Quote:
They've always had import restrictions, they tweaked the rule to not allow goalies. I don't get why you think it's anyone's birth right, whether it be Canadian or Euro to play in the CHL. If the CHL says they can't play, then they can't play. Get over it.
They've tweaked the rules in a way that is detrimental to the quality of the talent pool, and it's a step in the wrong direction.

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Euro players who come to Canada for prep schools can't play Jr. A or B once they're done because of import rules. Why doesn't anyone complain about those? People just complaining for the sake of complaining.
Junior A/B/C is less popular, and that's one reason. Also, Junior A/B/C has lower overhead, and doesn't need to draw as large of crowds. Junior A/B/C works on a different business model.

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If the Canadian Hockey league wants to give Canadians a chance over Euro's, isn't that somewhat logical?
This is Canada. Keep them commies outta my backyard!

It's cute when people think that developing Canadian talent is the primary objective of CHL teams. It gets less cute when they then support policies that will weaken the developmental aspect of the league...

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06-11-2013, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Taoiseach View Post
Sure it is. I think that restricting anyone from playing for a hockey team because of their nationality is stupid.
Enough said. You're in a fantasy land.

CHL is a Canadian based league, works in close partnership with Hockey Canada and definitely has an interest in developing Canadian Hockey players.

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06-11-2013, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
CHL is a Canadian based league, works in close partnership with Hockey Canada and definitely has an interest in developing Canadian Hockey players.
And the best way to do that is by providing them with the stiffest competition possible. Import players strengthen the league.

If you take out guys like Marvin Cüpper and Petr Mrázek, you don't replace them with Canadians who are just as good. Forwards develop, in an offensive sense anyway, by having to face strong goaltending. In turn, goaltenders and defencemen develop by having to face strong forwards (yes, I realise that I'm simplifying this). By weakening the overall goaltending talent pool, you reduce the opportunity for skaters, Canadian or otherwise, to face strong goaltending. Instead of playing 4-6 games against a Marvin Cüpper, you end up with 4-6 games against a Simon Lemieux. It might be a small thing, but that's 4-6 games a season where skaters aren't getting the opportunity to be tested by the strongest goaltender possible, and that's not good.

If Hockey Canada wants to fix the problem, they need to send envoys to other countries to figure out what they're doing differently, rather than introducing needless protectionism.

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06-12-2013, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Taoiseach View Post
And the best way to do that is by providing them with the stiffest competition possible. Import players strengthen the league.

If you take out guys like Marvin Cüpper and Petr Mrázek, you don't replace them with Canadians who are just as good. Forwards develop, in an offensive sense anyway, by having to face strong goaltending. In turn, goaltenders and defencemen develop by having to face strong forwards (yes, I realise that I'm simplifying this). By weakening the overall goaltending talent pool, you reduce the opportunity for skaters, Canadian or otherwise, to face strong goaltending. Instead of playing 4-6 games against a Marvin Cüpper, you end up with 4-6 games against a Simon Lemieux. It might be a small thing, but that's 4-6 games a season where skaters aren't getting the opportunity to be tested by the strongest goaltender possible, and that's not good.

If Hockey Canada wants to fix the problem, they need to send envoys to other countries to figure out what they're doing differently, rather than introducing needless protectionism.
Slippery slope argument? Are you going to tell me gay marriage leads to bestiality?

If we wanna get silly like that, couldn't I suggest that because the goalies are perceived as worse in your books, the defense will have to work harder defensively so Canada will now magically produce better defense! See how silly that sounds? There are very few import goalies who are coming in and dominating the league, most are average at best and could easily be replaced.


If the CHL was eliminating all imports + American goalies, I could see the argument holding a little more water because there's a hilarious amount of American goalies in the OHL & WHL and the quality might take a little more of a hit. When this change only eliminates 4 goalies per league and only 1 or 2 are actually really good (usually as 19 or 20 year olds) then the talent level doesn't really drop off as significantly as everyone is pretending it does.

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06-12-2013, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
Slippery slope argument? Are you going to tell me gay marriage leads to bestiality?
Uh...

Quote:
If we wanna get silly like that, couldn't I suggest that because the goalies are perceived as worse in your books, the defense will have to work harder defensively so Canada will now magically produce better defense! See how silly that sounds? There are very few import goalies who are coming in and dominating the league, most are average at best and could easily be replaced.
Replaced by guys who were considered substandard hitherto.


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If the CHL was eliminating all imports
Well, that would be an absolute disaster, and I'm quite sure that a lot of teams would put up a much stronger fight against it.

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American goalies, I could see the argument holding a little more water because there's a hilarious amount of American goalies in the OHL & WHL
There are also American teams in the OHL and WHL. There's nothing hilarious about the number of American players in the OHL and WHL.

Quote:
When this change only eliminates 4 goalies per league and only 1 or 2 are actually really good (usually as 19 or 20 year olds) then the talent level doesn't really drop off as significantly as everyone is pretending it does.
Regardless, protectionism is the enemy of excellence. The best you can hope for with policies like this is to maintain the status quo, and it's far more likely to have a detrimental effect.

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06-12-2013, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Taoiseach View Post
Uh...

Replaced by guys who were considered substandard hitherto.

Well, that would be an absolute disaster, and I'm quite sure that a lot of teams would put up a much stronger fight against it.

There are also American teams in the OHL and WHL. There's nothing hilarious about the number of American players in the OHL and WHL.

Regardless, protectionism is the enemy of excellence. The best you can hope for with policies like this is to maintain the status quo, and it's far more likely to have a detrimental effect.
I enjoy how you cut out a few parts and respond to just those and ignore many parts of the posts.

Time will tell, won't it. I'm quite sure that the elimination of Euro goalies isn't going to drop the standard of goaltending as significantly as you and others are saying. The irony of people overreacting to this rule changing and then calling it an overreaction by Hockey Canada & the CHL makes my ribs hurt from laughing so much

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06-12-2013, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
I enjoy how you cut out a few parts and respond to just those and ignore many parts of the posts.
I cut out the parts that were nonsense.

Quote:
Time will tell, won't it. I'm quite sure that the elimination of Euro goalies isn't going to drop the standard of goaltending as significantly as you and others are saying. The irony of people overreacting to this rule changing and then calling it an overreaction by Hockey Canada & the CHL makes my ribs hurt from laughing so much
I'm sure time will tell.

What it all boils down to is the CHL has decided to implement a racist and protectionist policy that will have no benefits whatsoever, instead of allowing teams to do what they can to ice the best team possible. It's a pity a really... I mean, my team isn't one to go out of their way to draft a European goaltender, so this ultimately shouldn't affect them too greatly, but I fully expect teams that do to be rewarded for this with increased indifference amongst their casual fans.

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06-12-2013, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Taoiseach View Post
I cut out the parts that were nonsense.



I'm sure time will tell.

What it all boils down to is the CHL has decided to implement a racist and protectionist policy that will have no benefits whatsoever, instead of allowing teams to do what they can to ice the best team possible. It's a pity a really... I mean, my team isn't one to go out of their way to draft a European goaltender, so this ultimately shouldn't affect them too greatly, but I fully expect teams that do to be rewarded for this with increased indifference amongst their casual fans.
lmao cut out the parts that were nonsense? You're avoiding the points and just repeating yourself over and over.

And the more you call it racist the more ignorant you look. CHL is one of about 4 or 5 leagues for players under the age of 20 that actually allows imports at all and they're still allowing two per team which was always the rule. Leagues in Europe have similar rules to minimize imports and emphasize home grown talent. I know you said that you think anyone should be allowed to play anywhere and that's a great unrealistic pipe dream, but don't single out the CHL - mention every single league around the rule with similar rules (there are maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany)

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06-12-2013, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
lmao cut out the parts that were nonsense? You're avoiding the points and just repeating yourself over and over.

And the more you call it racist the more ignorant you look. CHL is one of about 4 or 5 leagues for players under the age of 20 that actually allows imports at all and they're still allowing two per team which was always the rule. Leagues in Europe have similar rules to minimize imports and emphasize home grown talent. I know you said that you think anyone should be allowed to play anywhere and that's a great unrealistic pipe dream, but don't single out the CHL - mention every single league around the rule with similar rules (there are maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany)
Good for you... it seems as though we are the only 2 sane voices in this madhouse of silliness. Everything you argue I agree 100%.

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06-12-2013, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
And the more you call it racist the more ignorant you look.
I'm ignorant, you say. You can't play here because you're Finnish. You can't play here because you're Slovak. That's not terribly enlightened and inclusive... It's at best ignorant, at worst racist. This decision is so asinine and rooted in Hockey Canada's insecurity that I'm not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this matter.

Quote:
CHL is one of about 4 or 5 leagues for players under the age of 20 that actually allows imports at all and they're still allowing two per team which was always the rule. Leagues in Europe have similar rules to minimize imports and emphasize home grown talent. I know you said that you think anyone should be allowed to play anywhere and that's a great unrealistic pipe dream, but don't single out the CHL - mention every single league around the rule with similar rules (there are maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany)
That's not the topic at hand. Any league that would limit who is allowed to play in it based on something as minor as birthplace is clearly not striving for excellence. I don't think I'm hiding the fact that I think that leagues are foolish for placing these limitations on their teams, especially when there are as many business implications as there are in the CHL.

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