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NHL Draft - Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

RD Seth Jones (2013, 4th overall, Nashville) II

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Old
03-17-2013, 06:15 PM
  #201
CraigBillington
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
Great point, the only defenseman that would have fit the bill as a generational talent before playing in the NHL was Bobby Orr...and that's so long ago that they didn't even have a draft back then and I wonder if the term generational talent even existed then??? I guess for forwards some examples are Crosby, Ovechkin, Lindros, Sundin, Lemieux, Gretzky...
I'm willing to bet that, back then, the term was "best player ever"

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03-17-2013, 06:21 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by CraigBillington View Post
I'm willing to bet that, back then, the term was "best player ever"
I guess they retired that after Orr, Gretzky, and Lemieux.

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03-18-2013, 12:12 AM
  #203
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He's a very good player but not a chance he is generational talent.

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03-18-2013, 12:17 AM
  #204
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No he's not.

I don't care if he's a defenseman, a late-birthday on a powerhouse team with a 56 point season is far from a generational talent.

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03-18-2013, 01:41 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by CapAntwon View Post
He's a very good player but not a chance he is generational talent.
Lend me your Crystal Ball when you're done with it, will ya?


Jones is not a sure-fire generational talent like Crosby is (or maybe like McDavid appears he could be), but he certainly has the chance to develop into one. Of all the great young defensemen in the game, I think Jones has more of a chance to become a generational talent. Let's remember: if Nick Lidstrom was perceived to be one, he wouldn't have lasted till the 2nd round. It IS possible for some guys to reach a level of play that is higher than some may expect. Oliver Ekmann-Larson and Erik Karlsson are also two guys who have a *chance* to be a generational-type talent.


And I don't believe the term "Generational Talent" has to imply an Orr/Gretzky/Lemieux level. I think guys like Stevie Y, Joe Sakic, Peter Forsberg, Eric Lindros, Mark Messier or Pavel Bure and Jaromir Jagr, and guys like Lidstrom, Bourque and Coffey (among a few other blueliners like Potvin) could all qualify as generational talents, depending on exactly where you draw the line, and especially if you factor in where some of those guys (Yzerman, Forsberg, Bure, Lindros) would have ended up if they didn't suffer some effects/have their careers shortened by their respective injuries. Clearly, this is a matter of semantics to a large degree.

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03-18-2013, 01:54 AM
  #206
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doesn't generational talent just mean you have to be the best of your generation at the position you play?

doesn't just mean "top 5 player in the history of the sport." that's a bit ridiculous.

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03-18-2013, 03:27 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Passchendaele View Post
No he's not.

I don't care if he's a defenseman, a late-birthday on a powerhouse team with a 56 point season is far from a generational talent.
willing to bet you've never seen him play other than checking his stats

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Old
03-18-2013, 10:26 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Jarome Iginla View Post
willing to bet you've never seen him play other than checking his stats
Doesn't matter.

Generational talent is Bobby Orr. Orr was dominating junior hockey and scoring two points per game at age 17.

No matter how good his "all-around game" is, the numbers are not good enough to assume anything like that.
Hell, he isn't even first in scoring among DEFENSEMEN on his team.

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03-18-2013, 12:21 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Passchendaele View Post
Doesn't matter.

Generational talent is Bobby Orr. Orr was dominating junior hockey and scoring two points per game at age 17.

No matter how good his "all-around game" is, the numbers are not good enough to assume anything like that.
Hell, he isn't even first in scoring among DEFENSEMEN on his team.
You cannot be first in scoring on your team when you are not getting the most minutes or opportunities on the team. Especially in his case where there are very offensively talented d-men ahead of him on the seniority chart.

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03-18-2013, 12:33 PM
  #210
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Actually, his defence partner (Trouba) outplayed him badly at the WJC. I know Trouba has a year on him, but this shows he's not a generational talent.

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03-18-2013, 12:34 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Passchendaele View Post
No he's not.

I don't care if he's a defenseman, a late-birthday on a powerhouse team with a 56 point season is far from a generational talent.
Uh oh, we got a stat reader here folks. Watch a game.

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03-18-2013, 01:04 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by aqsw View Post
Actually, his defence partner (Trouba) outplayed him badly at the WJC. I know Trouba has a year on him, but this shows he's not a generational talent.

Trouba was awesome, awesome at the WJCs this year, and would have no doubt gone higher, probably to the Isles at #4, if the draft was (hypothetically) re-done. That being said, I'd be willing to wager all the money I have that Kevin Cheveldayoff would happily trade Jacob Trouba straight up to whatever team drafted Seth Jones. Their upside is not the same, at all.

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03-18-2013, 02:00 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by ColeJ View Post
doesn't generational talent just mean you have to be the best of your generation at the position you play?

doesn't just mean "top 5 player in the history of the sport." that's a bit ridiculous.
That seems to make sense.

Gretzky, Orr, and Lemieux were once in a life-time type players (hell, maybe two life times), never mind once in a generation.

Who's to say right now if the kid will be a "once in a generation player" until we see him cut his teeth in the NHL?

A lot of players come into the league with hype, but they have to prove it on the next level. Crosby is considered a once in a generation player now because of what he has already accomplished in a young career, but that was no slam dunk coming into the league, at least not to the level that he has currently risen.

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03-18-2013, 02:34 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
Great point, the only defenseman that would have fit the bill as a generational talent before playing in the NHL was Bobby Orr...and that's so long ago that they didn't even have a draft back then and I wonder if the term generational talent even existed then??? I guess for forwards some examples are Crosby, Ovechkin, Lindros, Sundin, Lemieux, Gretzky...

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03-18-2013, 02:49 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by 11MilesPerJohan View Post
That seems to make sense.

Gretzky, Orr, and Lemieux were once in a life-time type players (hell, maybe two life times), never mind once in a generation.

Who's to say right now if the kid will be a "once in a generation player" until we see him cut his teeth in the NHL?

A lot of players come into the league with hype, but they have to prove it on the next level. Crosby is considered a once in a generation player now because of what he has already accomplished in a young career, but that was no slam dunk coming into the league, at least not to the level that he has currently risen.
True, but Crosby was considered a generational prospect given his accomplishments at his age.

As we have no way to project Jones' future, one thing we can at least do is to look at his career thus far, which does not show he is a generational prospect where he is head and shoulders above other top defensive prospects over the past decade or so.

I sure hope Jones will be a brilliant player, and he looks an amazing prospect but so far his body of work does not show he is a generational talent at this stage in his career.Could be develop into one? Sure. But the posters thinking he will or won't have no way of knowing either way even if those thinking he will are in a more precarious position.

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03-18-2013, 02:52 PM
  #216
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I don't know if this has been posted yet, but even if it has it deserves being posted again given the misunderstanding many have regarding the term generational.

If posters wish to make up their own definition of generational they are welcome to do so, but then they should probably make a new term for what hockeys future consider generational, or define what their term implies.

Quote:
From Hockey's Future

Player System Rating Rules
Traditional Realistic Potential Rating (1-10)
(a player's realistic potential ability):

10. Generational Talent - a player for the ages, one who can do things with a puck that no other player would even contemplate doing. Very, very few players will be deserving of this rating, probably one per decade.

Defense: Bobby Orr
Forward: Wayne Gretzky
Goaltender: Patrick Roy

9. Elite Talent – possesses the potential for greatness, a perennial All-Star throughout his career.

Defense: Nicklas Lidstrom, Zdeno Chara, Chris Pronger
Forward: Ilya Kovalchuk, Joe Thornton, Eric Staal
Goaltender: Martin Brodeur, Roberto Luongo, Henrik Lundqvist
The ranking system they use is not perfect and to avoid misunderstanding it would probably be good if they rated players like Bourque, Crosby (based on his play when healthy), etc because it is not easy to get a read on some players in the Elite level vs Generational level, mainly the gap between a guy like Lidstrom and Staal.

However, seeing defenders such as Lidstrom, Chara and Pronger on the Elite talent list give huge warning signs to anyone who thinks Jones is a generational talent, based on what he has done thus far.


Last edited by The Sweetness: 03-18-2013 at 02:57 PM.
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03-21-2013, 01:30 AM
  #217
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No.

Some people don't remember but Jay Bouwmeester got as much hype as Jones is getting now.
This.

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03-21-2013, 02:15 AM
  #218
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No. Nathan Mackinnon isn't being labeled as a generational talent and many people have him above Seth Jones. If Jones was a generational talent, he'd be a lock for #1 by pretty much everyone, no?
Seth Jones is a lock for #1. The only way he won't be is if Edmonton get the #1 again. Here's 2 statements from 2 GM's in the last 3 days alone.

-Seth Jones as the top prospect in this year's draft. Asked about the draft he said that Jones had emerged as this year's top prospect

-Seth Jones is not only the #1 prospect, he's distanced himself from the competition which says something.

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03-21-2013, 02:21 AM
  #219
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shoot... they better be ready for drouin to pass of mckinnon... he's stepped it up to an insane level lately... Hearing about mckinnon I'd thought his ranking as number one was absolute.. then jones came up... and drouin got picked over mckinnon for the number one line at the world juniors... then you think of mckinnon's trajectory. Yes he mimicked crosby, but unknown to many, mckinnon didn't play for the shattuck st mary's PREP team (lie crosby ) at 15... instead he played for the MIDGET AAA one. His career in the CHL has certainly been great, but for those who remember actually watching crosby's first year in the CHL (he led the LEAGUE in scoring as a 16 yr old and was discussed as being ready for the nhl (least as a 4th liner level player) as a first year CHL'er. Mckinnon is certainly not in that league. I'm just hoping he doesn't follow the career of another wannabe crosby who had his ego unfortunately pumped by TSN and the hockey press, only to flounder awfully

Angelo Esposito
Funny you should say this cause I was just discussing this with someone yesterday. Esposito was the "great hype" then ended up being drafted what 18? From what I've seen of Mackinnon I honesty haven't been impressed, but I wouldn't be upset if he ended up on my team.

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03-21-2013, 02:41 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by georgiabluejacket View Post
Seth Jones is a lock for #1. The only way he won't be is if Edmonton get the #1 again. Here's 2 statements from 2 GM's in the last 3 days alone.

-Seth Jones as the top prospect in this year's draft. Asked about the draft he said that Jones had emerged as this year's top prospect

-Seth Jones is not only the #1 prospect, he's distanced himself from the competition which says something.
Seth Jones is most certainly NOT a LOCK for #1
I'm not saying he won't go #1, but he's far from a "lock"

Jones is by no means a generational talent - when was the last generational Dman?
I guess Karlsson could turn out to be one, but in his draft year, he wasn't.
Erik Johnson is Seth Jones 1.0 and he wasn't a generational talent.

Simply put - Dmen are too unpredictable to be labelled as Generational. The last generational Dman at a draft was Denis Potvin

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03-21-2013, 02:42 AM
  #221
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http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...t=erik+johnson

People still thought Johnson would go #1 overall if he was 18 drafted in the 2008 NHL draft. Jones is being hyped just as much as Bouwmeester or EJ was. Theres just as good of chance Jones doesn't live up to the expectations as it was with the other two.

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03-21-2013, 09:41 AM
  #222
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
Maybe we should wait until he plays at least a game before we start throwing around that term.
Why? Pretty much everyone who's been labelled a generational talent got that classification way before playing their first game in the NHL.

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03-21-2013, 11:04 AM
  #223
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Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...t=erik+johnson

People still thought Johnson would go #1 overall if he was 18 drafted in the 2008 NHL draft. Jones is being hyped just as much as Bouwmeester or EJ was. Theres just as good of chance Jones doesn't live up to the expectations as it was with the other two.
Everybody is different.

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03-21-2013, 11:13 AM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Kevin8se7en View Post
Simply put - Dmen are too unpredictable to be labelled as Generational. The last generational Dman at a draft was Denis Potvin
I would say Bryan Fogarty... he fell because everyone knew he had serious problems... but a generational talent... yes

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03-21-2013, 11:31 AM
  #225
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Actually, his defence partner (Trouba) outplayed him badly at the WJC. I know Trouba has a year on him, but this shows he's not a generational talent.
Umm, not sure which WJC you were watching. Jones looks awesome out there, and made smart plays with the puck. Trouba demonstrated poor shot selection most of the time - too trigger happy, didn't make smart plays with the puck. I would take Jones over Trouba any day.

That said, Jones isn't generational yet. Time will tell if he can play himself into that stratosphere, although that is extremely hard for DMen, given how stat happy everyone is when discussing greatness.

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