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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
06-13-2013, 01:03 AM
  #51
belair
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Kreider: 23 games played
MPS: 162 games played.
If Kreider is as disappointing as MPS after 150 games then you may have a point, right now you don't. Try again.


HF Boards: Where playing in the National Hockey League is a bad thing.

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06-13-2013, 01:10 AM
  #52
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I'd do it. I can see why Oilers fans are disgusted.

The pick might be a mystery box, but MDZ is easily worth taking a flier on Lindholm, Monahan, Domi, or Zadorov. Sometimes you have to take calculated risks.

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Originally Posted by belair View Post


HF Boards: Where playing in the National Hockey League is a bad thing.
You're entirely misreading that. It simply means that Kreider and MPS aren't in similar situations because they've played different amounts of games.

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06-13-2013, 01:11 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by belair View Post


HF Boards: Where playing in the National Hockey League is a bad thing.
Real life: Being disappointing for 3 NHL years is a bad thing.

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Old
06-13-2013, 01:18 AM
  #54
Roof Daddy
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
This is an easy no from the Rangers.
Career production
DZ: 0.44 points/game.
MPS: 0.35 points/game.

MPS is soft for a "defensive" forward. Averages less than half hit/game, or 1 hit every 2 games.
+/- is not an exact indicator, but he is -21.
DZ is at 2 hits/game and at +1, doesn't hurt the team.
Just to illustrate this point further
Hits/year:
DZ: 162, 92, 156, 77
MPS: 22, 18, 24
There's no doubt that MPS doesn't play physical enough, and we can only hope Eakins finds a way to change that, but I put zero stock in the guy recording hits at MSG. The kid running the hotdog cart there averages 3 hits a game

As for the breakdown, obviously MDZ is worth more than Paajarvi. However, he's not even the main piece in the deal. 7th is going to net us 1 of Monahan/Lindholm/Nichushkin, all of whom fill a need for us. I personally would not even move 7th overall for MDZ straight up.

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06-13-2013, 01:24 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
There's no doubt that MPS doesn't play physical enough, and we can only hope Eakins finds a way to change that, but I put zero stock in the guy recording hits at MSG. The kid running the hotdog cart there averages 3 hits a game

As for the breakdown, obviously MDZ is worth more than Paajarvi. However, he's not even the main piece in the deal. 7th is going to net us 1 of Monahan/Lindholm/Nichushkin, all of whom fill a need for us. I personally would not even move 7th overall for MDZ straight up.
Then you don't watch MDZ play. He plays more physical than people on these boards give him credit for.

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06-13-2013, 01:26 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
There's no doubt that MPS doesn't play physical enough, and we can only hope Eakins finds a way to change that, but I put zero stock in the guy recording hits at MSG. The kid running the hotdog cart there averages 3 hits a game
The only Ranger that records an egregious amount of hits is Ryan Callahan and those are probably real seeing as how he can't make it down the ice without knocking himself over 3 times.

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06-13-2013, 01:49 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Real life: Being disappointing for 3 NHL years is a bad thing.
You can throw a poll up in the Oilers forum right now. No one is disappointed with Magnus' season this year.

And I'd honestly like to know how you consider a 34 point rookie season disappointing. His second year is - if you've watched NHL hockey long enough - what you'd call a sophomore slump.

He's one of Edmonton's best two-way forwards at 23. One of the best skaters in the league. And he's about to get a coach who owns a beaming reputation of getting the most out of his younger players.

That's real life...

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06-13-2013, 01:54 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by GoofSlashFoig View Post
It's funny how Rangers fans call Paajarvi a disappointment/bust, when Kreider is in the exact same boat. Yet, if you ask Rangers fans what they think of Kreider, they talk him up like he'll be a star.
What? This is completely false.

Kredier has performed well in the playoffs. MPS? We don't know. Kreider's sample size is FAR smaller than MPS' to make this comparison.

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Old
06-13-2013, 02:02 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Real life: Being disappointing for 3 NHL years is a bad thing.
If being on pace for 30+ pts in 2 of first 3 NHL seasons while providing defensive game is disappointing, more than half the league was disappointing early in their careers. They are very comparable prospects. Both have great physical tools, size, speed, shot. Both have questionable decision making skills. They are pretty much carbon copies of each other IMO. Like Kreider was last season, MPS at one point was a top 5 prospect on this website.

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06-13-2013, 02:06 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
One dimensional my ass. Aside for his ability to thread the needle and make that big pass out of the zone, MDZ plays a physical game as well. He has snarl. He blocks shots. He can actually play defense. Solid gap control. Doesn't get beaten wide. Can stifle forwards along the boards.

Get your facts straight if you want to be taken seriously.
There are legitimate discussions on the Rangers boards on who to trade and who not to trade to improve the team. I am sure this happens on every board.
MDZ's name has been mentioned as a trade possibility.
Given the depth on the left side, some think he is the one that may return the best value.
Many Rangers fans think MDZ at 22 and having produced 3 out of 4 years at 37+ point clip, playing physical defense, is not worth trading.
Let me add here, that this view is shared by non Rangers fans who have visited the Rangers boards and participated in the discussions.
From those discussions, some Rangers fans come running here to make a proposal without putting any thoughts in the values involved.
People who read these boards think that Rangers want to get rid of him, or he is struggling. We don't and he is not.
The sad part is, these few fans are the most vocal on the main boards and the rest of the boards think they represent the majority of the fanbase, they don't.

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06-13-2013, 02:11 AM
  #61
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Absolutely putrid.

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Old
06-13-2013, 02:11 AM
  #62
Kwayry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
If being on pace for 30+ pts in 2 of first 3 NHL seasons while providing defensive game is disappointing, more than half the league was disappointing early in their careers. They are very comparable prospects. Both have great physical tools, size, speed, shot. Both have questionable decision making skills. They are pretty much carbon copies of each other IMO. Like Kreider was last season, MPS at one point was a top 5 prospect on this website.
Except MPS has played 3 years in the league already and kreider hasn't completed 1 full year yet.
So I don't know how you can make the comparison.
And by the way, how is MPS/Kreider poll going?

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Old
06-13-2013, 02:15 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
easy no from edmonton's side. also, i don't think they need another pmd
We don't need a PMD in general.

What we really need is a better stay at home d-man to play with Justin Scultz, while Smid and Petry are clearly our best defense pairing.

If we acquired a PMD that's clearly a big upgrade on our team I think it's assumed by many that the Oil would break up the Petry/Smid pairing and have Smid playing with Schultz.

As incredible of a pairing as Smid/Petry are, they simply don't put up enough points. I don't understand for the life of me how on earth Petry's point totals were not at least double of what they were this year. Nonetheless, 12 points over 48 games is not what you'd refer to as an offensive d-man.

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Old
06-13-2013, 02:16 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Except MPS has played 3 years in the league already and kreider hasn't completed 1 full year yet.
So I don't know how you can make the comparison.
And by the way, how is MPS/Kreider poll going?
Probably because they were drafted 9 spots apart and are were born ~20 days apart.

Seems like a good basis for a comparison if we're calling one of the a disappointment.

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06-13-2013, 03:43 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Real life: Being disappointing for 3 NHL years is a bad thing.
15 goals 34 points as a rookie disappointing .... ok bud .

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06-13-2013, 03:53 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
If being on pace for 30+ pts in 2 of first 3 NHL seasons while providing defensive game is disappointing, more than half the league was disappointing early in their careers. They are very comparable prospects. Both have great physical tools, size, speed, shot. Both have questionable decision making skills. They are pretty much carbon copies of each other IMO. Like Kreider was last season, MPS at one point was a top 5 prospect on this website.
So basically you're saying since over half the league is like that he is average...

Going from an elite prospect status to just average is a disappointment no matter how you look at it

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06-13-2013, 07:12 AM
  #67
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I love MDZ. He looked so much better in his own zone this year. I'd try and hold on to the 7th overall pick though. But i'd definitely think long about it.

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06-13-2013, 07:30 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Or maybe, just maybe, we have two, established LHD ahead of him and we can afford to trade him for a worthwhile return?

Nah. That can't be right. Players only get offered up in trade when they just aren't that good. Must really kill the value of Gagner and Hemsky, eh?
It would seem from the title of the this thread:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1435925

that there is a reason for at least some concern.

For me Del Zotto is a big question mark. He certainly has offensive skills but how would he fair in a system that exposes defensive weakness.

Right now the left side is a weakness, especially as far as puck movers go. But if you look at the Oiler's prospect pool they are overloaded with left handed defensemen. Klefbom probably plays next year and if Marincin continues to progress he will be pushing hard in a year or two. They also signed Anton Belov who is also a lefty, though he may prefer playing on the right side.

Without arguing whether Del Zotto is worth a 7th (no one will change anyones minds on that) if the Oilers were to move that pick Del Zotto would not be the guy I'd target. And there is no way I would include Paajarvi in that deal.

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06-13-2013, 07:44 AM
  #69
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So basically you're saying since over half the league is like that he is average...

Going from an elite prospect status to just average is a disappointment no matter how you look at it
Expectations of Paajarvi were probably to high, and I was guilty of that myself. So from that perspective he is disappointing. But the point is it does not make him worthless.

While the jury is still out on Paajarvi, in reality he still has a very good chance of becoming a valuable NHL'er. He is already very good defensively, especially for his age. Last year he found some of his confidence offensively as well. He scored 9 goals in a mostly limited role. That put him 5th in goal scoring on the Oilers and 135th amongst NHL forwards. In a 30 team league that means that on average he would be the 4th or 5th top goal scorer on a generic team. Add that to a solid rookie year and I think he gets significantly undervalued.

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06-13-2013, 09:40 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
It would seem from the title of the this thread:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1435925

that there is a reason for at least some concern.

For me Del Zotto is a big question mark. He certainly has offensive skills but how would he fair in a system that exposes defensive weakness.

Right now the left side is a weakness, especially as far as puck movers go. But if you look at the Oiler's prospect pool they are overloaded with left handed defensemen. Klefbom probably plays next year and if Marincin continues to progress he will be pushing hard in a year or two. They also signed Anton Belov who is also a lefty, though he may prefer playing on the right side.

Without arguing whether Del Zotto is worth a 7th (no one will change anyones minds on that) if the Oilers were to move that pick Del Zotto would not be the guy I'd target. And there is no way I would include Paajarvi in that deal.
He had a terrible series against Boston, but for the most part this year, he was just fine as a 2nd pairing defender. He was forced to play the right side and he's just not comfortable there. We had a thread at the beginning of the year filled with posts by people who wanted to trade Stepan for anything they could get. We have people offering Girardi up for free. Hell, we've even had a thread where a poster anointed Chad Johnson as a "real" goalie while Lundqvist was a fluke. Sensationalist threads are just that. If you want to base your opinion on that thread, then you're uninformed.

If the Oilers want to wait and hope that one of Marancin, Klefbom or Gernat can fill the role that Del Zotto can fill right now, then that's their prerogative. However, the Rangers -- who are trying to win it all right now -- aren't going to roll the dice on a kid who may or may not be an NHL player in exchange for a top-4 defender who was top-20 in defensive scoring last year. They need at least one semi-proven option back as well.

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06-13-2013, 10:33 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
He had a terrible series against Boston, but for the most part this year, he was just fine as a 2nd pairing defender. He was forced to play the right side and he's just not comfortable there. We had a thread at the beginning of the year filled with posts by people who wanted to trade Stepan for anything they could get. We have people offering Girardi up for free. Hell, we've even had a thread where a poster anointed Chad Johnson as a "real" goalie while Lundqvist was a fluke. Sensationalist threads are just that. If you want to base your opinion on that thread, then you're uninformed.

If the Oilers want to wait and hope that one of Marancin, Klefbom or Gernat can fill the role that Del Zotto can fill right now, then that's their prerogative. However, the Rangers -- who are trying to win it all right now -- aren't going to roll the dice on a kid who may or may not be an NHL player in exchange for a top-4 defender who was top-20 in defensive scoring last year. They need at least one semi-proven option back as well.
I am aware that threads like the one I quoted are often knee jerk reactions. But it does show that there could be more to a Del Zotto proposal than just your team's strength on the left side which is really the comment I was trying to make. He has had a bit of and up and down start to his career, something that is not at all unexpected for a young defenseman. Personally I have watched Del Zotto since he was a junior so I have my own ideas about how he will fit in with the Oilers.

You will seldom see me commenting on trade from the other teams perspective. I am happy to let others comment from on own team. So I have no problem if you don't want this deal.

Form the Oiler's perspective the issue is not whether or not Del Zotto can fill a role this year. They need to think long term as well. Because of the nature of the players in the top 7 this year this pick could easily produce a key piece going forward, the two-way #2C with size that the team lacks. Not only is that important for balancing out the forward group but it would also free up Gagner to be traded.

As I said, I would not trade the #7 for Del Zotto from and Oilers perspective in part because of the importance of addressing the #2C issue, in part because there is depth in the system on the left side, and in part because coming from a system that shelters him defensively, it is not clear if Del Zotto would be a defensive liability. Throwing in Paajarvi makes the deal a complete no go for me.

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