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Sabres Attempting To Acquire The First Overall Pick

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Old
06-13-2013, 12:18 AM
  #251
Djp
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Originally Posted by Scott Scissons View Post
Actually it is a word, just not a very good one.
Its not recognized by dictionaries as a legit word.

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06-13-2013, 12:30 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
No.


The 2003 draft was strong because it was so deep. The 2005 draft wasn't strong, but it did have an extremely good 1st overall pick.


The 2013 draft is not only considered to be very deep(Not 03 deep, but better then that last few years) but also still has a strong top end in Mackinnon/Jones.
I don't think MacKinnon is as strong a prospect as Tavares or Hall were heading into the draft. No doubt, what he did at the Memorial Cup was impressive, but I think overall JT and Hall had the stronger junior resumes. If a scout does like Nate better than those other 2, it can't be by much, thus I don't really see the top end the way you seem to.

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06-13-2013, 12:31 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by tucker3434 View Post
Not sure what you're arguing. The Sabres absolutely have the pieces to get a deal done. I just doubt they want to part with the necessary pieces. No big deal. If the situations were reversed, I wouldn't want the Avs to do it either.
Not arguing just trying to get a realistic point that Myers and 8 is a strong offer and adding one of the players I mentioned in the middle is the icing to make this deal happen. I get that the avs will try to max the return but 8, 16, Myers,++ is just a silly notion.

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06-13-2013, 12:35 AM
  #254
tucker3434
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Originally Posted by VanekTheMvp View Post
Not arguing just trying to get a realistic point that Myers and 8 is a strong offer and adding one of the players I mentioned in the middle is the icing to make this deal happen. I get that the avs will try to max the return but 8, 16, Myers,++ is just a silly notion.
We can afford to be a little silly. There's absolutely no need to move the pick.

It isn't like it's a UFA with an expiring contract. Worst case, we have to pick between MacKinnon and Jones. Not a bad consolation prize.

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06-13-2013, 12:43 AM
  #255
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Let's look at it this way, from a hypothetical standpoint that only makes sense in my head hahaha. Say Myers is the fixed component here in the trade, and the Avs ask for the 8th and 16th picks for the 1st pick. Over the years, trade's would have looked like this:

2007
Patrick Kane for Tyler Myers, Zach Hamill, and Colton Gillies

2008
Steven Stamkos for Tyler Myers, Mikkel Boedker, and Joe Colborne

2009
John Tavares for Tyler Myers, Scott Glennie, and Nick Leddy

2010
Taylor Hall for Tyler Myers, Alexander Burmistrov, and Vladimir Tarasenko

Obviously the Avs would make their own picks but you get a sense of the players who would be there, that last trade is solid though. Let's look at the last "very deep draft", 2003, just for fun

2003
Marc-Andre Fleury for Tyler Myers, Braydon Coburn, and Steve Bernier


It might be a little confusing to imagine because Myers is the constant but hopefully try to work with me lol (and also don't think of Fleury in the awful state he is now). I'm not saying anything about the Avs making a trade or the Sabres making a trade, just looking at recent drafts and where the Avs could potentially be and wind up with, I don't like the odds of grabbing an impact player at either 8 or 16 as much as I do 1. I like Myers a lot, but I'd have to think that some other significant piece has to come with him for the Avs to consider moving out of 1 and that piece can't be a draft pick

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06-13-2013, 12:46 AM
  #256
N o o d l e s
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I have obviously watched Myers play a decent amount and he has never impressed me. Especially for a d man of his stature. If I was Colorado I would much rather draft Jones for the potential he brings. Ya Myers won the Calder, but he has been nothing special since and it has been, what, 3 years?

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06-13-2013, 12:56 AM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N o o d l e s View Post
I have obviously watched Myers play a decent amount and he has never impressed me. Especially for a d man of his stature. If I was Colorado I would much rather draft Jones for the potential he brings. Ya Myers won the Calder, but he has been nothing special since and it has been, what, 3 years?
I don't think Chara was anything "special" his first 3 or 4 years either ...

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06-13-2013, 01:12 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
I don't think Chara was anything "special" his first 3 or 4 years either ...
Fair point.

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Old
06-13-2013, 01:15 AM
  #259
Jimmy Carter
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Originally Posted by hizzoner View Post
Exactly--Kane AND Toews.....but no way any of the top 3 this year can do what those TWO are doing along with a bunch of other high picks....
But MacKinnon/Jones playing with a bunch of other high picks like Duchene, Landeskog, and Johnson could probably do some really great things. Not to mention O'Reilly who would be drafted far higher than early 2nd round if the 2009 draft were to be redone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
Doesn't the strength of the draft actually work against the case for keeping the pick? I mean, 2005 wasn't a particularly strong draft, yet the guy taken 1st is the best player in the game. Yet the 2003 draft was one of the strongest ever, and it saw better players go mid 1st or 2nd rd than the the guys in the top 5. I don't see MacKinnon or Jones as a generational talent, and if anything the top 3 this year kind of resembles the top 3 in 2009.
So you're trying to convince a bunch of Avs fans to move down from the 1st pick to the 8th pick by comparing the top 3 of this draft to the one where the Avs picked up Matt Duchene with the 3rd overall pick. Matt Duchene, the fan favorite who was a Calder Trophy finalist and just put up nearly a PPG season. You really like uphill battles, don't you?

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06-13-2013, 01:35 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by chardo View Post
has the #1 pick ever been traded before the draft?
1999.

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06-13-2013, 01:46 AM
  #261
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I'm just wondering what sense Avs fans have gotten as to who will be picked?

It seems obvious to me that they would take Jones but there seems to be a lot of speculation on here that MacKinnon will be the one taken. Would they draft MacKinnon and then attempt to move O'Reilly and/or Stastny for d-men?

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06-13-2013, 01:46 AM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
We go through this song and dance every single year and no one ever gives up the #1 pick.
Yep. Plus, unless I missed it, here's the DEVINE.MP3 for reference and some of what was said that sparked this thread:
  • “We have had conversations with Colorado... I think it’s how far they want to move back. And you take the situation in Colorado and where there’s a new regime in there with Joe Sakic and Patrick Roy. I don’t think Patrick came in there with the idea of a long rebuild. So I think they might be willing to listen to a few things.”
  • “I think they’re trying to figure out themselves what’s happening there. I believe they’re having internal meetings there this week and we’ll probably get back to them at some point. We’re waiting for a call back to find out what their position is.”
^^Those are feelers, conversations, talks or whatever else you want to call it .. I say big deal, business as usual for any GM. Also, it sounds like a potential stumbling block would be Colorado not wanting to drop as far as eight, requiring a preemptive move from Buffalo, which is easier said than done.
  • “That was the basis of our meetings over the past week and a lot of the conversation over two days. What would it take to get this pick? What would it take to get that pick? Is that going to be something we’re willing to do? The preliminary talks are that everybody’s talking about our young players to move up. So we’ve got to decide if it makes sense to move some of those players to move up? So it’s a difficult conversation, but if you’re really honed in on one guy and he can be a franchise changer then you have to look at it.”
^It is notable that Buffalo's feelers indicate that a young player is among the asking price to move up in the first-round .. and they obviously talked about endless scenarios and what they'd part with to get player-x, etc. in their meetings, including trading up for a "franchise changer."

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Old
06-13-2013, 01:49 AM
  #263
tucker3434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 080 View Post
I'm just wondering what sense Avs fans have gotten as to who will be picked?

It seems obvious to me that they would take Jones but there seems to be a lot of speculation on here that MacKinnon will be the one taken. Would they draft MacKinnon and then attempt to move O'Reilly and/or Stastny for d-men?
They certainly could. I'd say 80-20 jones-mackinnon.

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06-13-2013, 02:46 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
Nope. Not even close.


Why would the Avs trade a almost sure thing in Mackinnon/Jones for 3 much lesser prospects.


Not nearly enough.


Talks get started with the #8 + #16 + Myers. If that's not on the table the Avs very happily keep the 1st overall and draft Jones or Mackinnon.
Lol. No way bud. Fully agree with the one post above that taking Myers out makes it more realistic if you're going to include Grigorenko.

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06-13-2013, 03:03 AM
  #265
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(#8 + #16 + Myers + Grigorenko)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoofSlashFoig View Post
That is way overpayment.
I don't think its enough. The 1st overall pick is the 1st overall.

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06-13-2013, 03:10 AM
  #266
Scott Scissons
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
Its not recognized by dictionaries as a legit word.
If it is in the dictionary it is a word, like I said it is not a good word and is grammatically incorrect.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless

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06-13-2013, 03:51 AM
  #267
Oiltankjob Fail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
Its not recognized by dictionaries as a legit word.
It isn't in the dictionary

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06-13-2013, 04:14 AM
  #268
Scott Scissons
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
It isn't in the dictionary
It is in both oxfords and websters..

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06-13-2013, 04:31 AM
  #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 080 View Post
I'm just wondering what sense Avs fans have gotten as to who will be picked?

It seems obvious to me that they would take Jones but there seems to be a lot of speculation on here that MacKinnon will be the one taken. Would they draft MacKinnon and then attempt to move O'Reilly and/or Stastny for d-men?
Im thinking they go with Jones, because they need help on defense, he is rated BPA as much as Mac is, they cant move ROR, and they wont receive a Dman better than Jones for Statsny.

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06-13-2013, 04:33 AM
  #270
Oiltankjob Fail
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Originally Posted by Scott Scissons View Post
It is in both oxfords and websters..
I think my post went over your head

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06-13-2013, 04:53 AM
  #271
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
Im thinking they go with Jones, because they need help on defense, he is rated BPA as much as Mac is, they cant move ROR, and they wont receive a Dman better than Jones for Statsny.
They'll go with Jones because he's the BPA, and BPA has always been Rick Pracey's way of doing things.

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06-13-2013, 05:49 AM
  #272
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I'm a bit late to the party but anyways: Do not be mistaken by one individual to be the whole fanbase. Jame is known for his love for Mac and trying to dump players to get him. Take out the young NHL'er and it's still lopsided.

Again, huge overpayment

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06-13-2013, 06:07 AM
  #273
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The Sabres have quality vets on large,expiring contracts (Miller, Vanek) that likely would not be of interest to a club in rebuild mode. Given his contract and back to back disappointing seasons, Meyers has little current trade value.

Due to the depth of this draft, the Avs might be tempted by a wealth of 2013 and 2014 picks, such as both first rounders and a second in 2013 plus a first and a third in 2014.

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06-13-2013, 07:03 AM
  #274
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What about an all picks trade? If the Sabres are able to get a 1st and a 2nd in separate deals for Vanek and Miller.

8th, 16th, 1st (from Vanek trade), 3 2nd round picks.

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06-13-2013, 07:07 AM
  #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SufferingCatFan View Post
The Sabres have quality vets on large,expiring contracts (Miller, Vanek) that likely would not be of interest to a club in rebuild mode. Given his contract and back to back disappointing seasons, Meyers has little current trade value.

Due to the depth of this draft, the Avs might be tempted by a wealth of 2013 and 2014 picks, such as both first rounders and a second in 2013 plus a first and a third in 2014.
Based on current results from the Sabres and the fact they are likely to trade their two most valuable veterans, I would strongly hesitate trading their 2014 first round pick.

I'm sorry for not reading every post, but has anyone brought up the Sens/isles trade for #2? The Isles gave up #2 and Chara for Yashin. I'm not saying this will look like a Avs/Sabres trade, but if they are interested in acquiring a veteran like Vanek with confidence he will resign, Maybe Vanek + Grigorenko + #8 for #1 and Stastny? Stastny to free up Avs cap space and a center spot for Grigorenko.

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