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Sabres Attempting To Acquire The First Overall Pick

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Old
06-12-2013, 07:18 PM
  #201
AvsFan20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post


#1 (Nathan MacKinnon)



Frederick Roy
Sabres would never do it. Avs would have to add a bit.

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Old
06-12-2013, 07:24 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Rainbow Crash View Post
There is so much wrong with what you said.

1. Myers is already a top-4 D. There's no reason to believe that he can't go back to a top-2 D.

2. To say a prospect who hasn't played a single game is more likely to be a top-2 D than a young top-4 D is just asinine.

3. Grigorenko has the potential to be an elite scorer in the league, he averaged a GPG in the Q this year.

4. You will still get a solid piece at the #8 spot.

5. Both Myers and Ennis are proven, and Ennis is a 1st liner. On the opposite side, Mac has proven nothing, so why should he get that much back?

I can't believe this thread. Just wow.
You essentially summarized EXACTLY what I thought.

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Old
06-12-2013, 07:32 PM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhinogol View Post
You essentially summarized EXACTLY what I thought.
Disagree with both of you. Jones doesn't have "top two" upside, he's got best defenseman in the league upside. How likely he is to get there is another story but his potential is ridiculous. Even MacKinnon seems like a sure bet to be a #1 centre. Talk about proven all you want but the skill set of these players is so much more than any one piece going back to Colorado. So they have to give up a lot.

If you could have traded one of these enormous packages for Tavares back in the day, would you not have? I think I probably would.

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Old
06-12-2013, 07:41 PM
  #204
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Grigorenko + 8th + 16th...

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06-12-2013, 07:41 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by DJB View Post
Grigorenko + 8th + 16th...
not enough

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06-12-2013, 07:41 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
Disagree with both of you. Jones doesn't have "top two" upside, he's got best defenseman in the league upside. How likely he is to get there is another story but his potential is ridiculous. Even MacKinnon seems like a sure bet to be a #1 centre. Talk about proven all you want but the skill set of these players is so much more than any one piece going back to Colorado. So they have to give up a lot.

If you could have traded one of these enormous packages for Tavares back in the day, would you not have? I think I probably would.
Well the 8th pick was Scott Glennie and the 16th Nick Leddy.
So yeah adding Myers + Armia to get Tavares probably would not be thaat bad . Maybe if they would have taken Cowen (9th) it would have been closer.
But looking through the recent drafts it is safe to say that there is a huge huge difference between picking #1 and picking #8.
Hell Picking #2 often times made a huge difference in value.

The #1 is probably the most valuable asset which could realistically be moved. Every other time you move players of similar quality it is for a reason that drags down the trade value of said player....

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06-12-2013, 07:55 PM
  #207
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what the guy who keeps talking about stocks doesn't realize is that right now potentially Mac/Jones could be the next Stamkos or Doughty respectively. Any GM that would like to keep their job isn't going to give that up unless the win the trade with an overpayment.

I think Myers could be quite good but will he ever be a drew doughty, the way things are going no.

Also I don't see Colorado taking on a 5.5mill cap hit and not dumping some of there own wasted cap (david jones) which again changes the trade, they'd have to give up Myers + Vanek (with an extension less the 5.5mill) and a draft pick or 2. Even with all that i don't know if its worth taking on those to when all the really need is a better D core which would be the arrival of Jones and the graduation of Siemens, Barrie, and Elliott.

I don't know why people are saying trade Miller. hands down Buffalo's best player, also he would do as well as Varly has for us in net with the shakey defense and terrible coaching under Sacco.

My opinion is that Colorado is just gauging whats out there and whos on the table for later in the season, and they draft Jones, who wants to play for the Avs and Sakic and would possible consider a hometown discount in the future.

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Old
06-12-2013, 08:04 PM
  #208
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To Nashville

- Vanek
- Hodgson


To Buffalo

- 4th Overall



To Colorado

- 4th Overall (Barkov)
- 8th Overall (Nurse)
- Grigorenko
- Sekera


To Buffalo

- 1st Overall (Mac)
- Statsny

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Old
06-12-2013, 08:06 PM
  #209
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Why isn't Foligno in the discussion? I feel like he is the type of player the Avs would definitely want coming back in a trade with Buffalo. Or are Sabres fans saying he's untouchable?

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06-12-2013, 08:08 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuke View Post
To Nashville

- Vanek
- Hodgson


To Buffalo

- 4th Overall



To Colorado

- 4th Overall (Barkov)
- 8th Overall (Nurse)
- Grigorenko
- Sekera


To Buffalo

- 1st Overall (Mac)
- Statsny
I'm not adding stastny to any deal that ships off the first overall unless we have an insane return.

The 4th and 8th would be much easier to make a deal with though.

4th
8th
Sekera

1st


??

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Old
06-12-2013, 08:11 PM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuke View Post
To Nashville

- Vanek
- Hodgson


To Buffalo

- 4th Overall



To Colorado

- 4th Overall (Barkov)
- 8th Overall (Nurse)
- Grigorenko
- Sekera


To Buffalo

- 1st Overall (Mac)
- Statsny
That COL deal is brutal...not even close. The difference between MacKinnon and Barkov is most definitely not a top 10 pick in a deep draft.

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Old
06-12-2013, 08:11 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
Disagree with both of you. Jones doesn't have "top two" upside, he's got best defenseman in the league upside.
Which league?

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06-12-2013, 08:12 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuke View Post
To Nashville

- Vanek
- Hodgson


To Buffalo

- 4th Overall



To Colorado

- 4th Overall
- 8th Overall
- Grigorenko
- Sekera


To Buffalo

- 1st Overall
- Statsny
I really doubt Nashville would take that deal...as an Avs fan, I'm not a fan of their deal mainly bc I'm of the opinion that Stastny will get back to form under Roy nor does the deal immediately address the need for a 1st pairing Dman and Sekera does not do it for me in that sense

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06-12-2013, 08:17 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tucker3434 View Post
I'm not adding stastny to any deal that ships off the first overall unless we have an insane return.

The 4th and 8th would be much easier to make a deal with though.

4th
8th
Sekera

1st


??
Dats good with me. I have Statsny coming back only because he would need to if we deal both Grigs and Hodgson. I'd even throw in a 2nd if Grigs was retained.

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Old
06-12-2013, 08:18 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by silence View Post
I really doubt Nashville would take that deal...as an Avs fan, I'm not a fan of their deal mainly bc I'm of the opinion that Stastny will get back to form under Roy nor does the deal immediately address the need for a 1st pairing Dman and Sekera does not do it for me in that sense
I feel Nurse is a top pairing D-Man.

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Old
06-12-2013, 08:22 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuke View Post
I feel Nurse is a top pairing D-Man.
maybe but I think he's a fairly big drop off from Jones and certainly won't jump right into the nhl, and I think a lot of people are forgetting that Jones is exactly what the Avs need not to mention arguably the BPA

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06-12-2013, 08:31 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
Disagree with both of you. Jones doesn't have "top two" upside, he's got best defenseman in the league upside. How likely he is to get there is another story but his potential is ridiculous. Even MacKinnon seems like a sure bet to be a #1 centre. Talk about proven all you want but the skill set of these players is so much more than any one piece going back to Colorado. So they have to give up a lot.

If you could have traded one of these enormous packages for Tavares back in the day, would you not have? I think I probably would.
Yep, just like Daigle was suppose to be our savior... A propsect is unproven, only time will tell

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06-12-2013, 08:34 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by alpine4life View Post
Yep, just like Daigle was suppose to be our savior... A propsect is unproven, only time will tell
Whats your point?

What he said was true. And he followed up what he said with basically what you just said.


So what's your point?

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Old
06-12-2013, 09:09 PM
  #219
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At the 8 position the Sabres have a shot at Nurse, Lindholm, Ristoleinen etc. assuming Jones, MacKinnon, Drouin, Barkov, Nicushkin and Monahan go top 6. I do not see the fantastic difference between Nurse /Ristoleinen and Jones that most on these boards do. Give up 8 plus 16 plus plus plus? After all Jones is being touted as the consensus number 1. But because the Sabres covet a skilled number 1 centre they will gut their future for a guy rated number 2? I hope MacKinnon has a great career but I think Nurse/Lindholm, Myers, Grigorenko/Armia and Horvat/Lazar/Pulock/Zadarov would bode better for the Sabres future. I would be ok with a smaller bounce up for Barkov but not for an overpayment--the 8th pick will be a good one this year unlike many 8th picks in other years if the scouts are right....Let me see..where are the Islanders led by Tavares, the Oilers led by RNH, the Lightning led by Stamkos drafting this year???

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06-12-2013, 09:12 PM
  #220
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Not sure if this has been posted as I didn't go through all the threads but what about:

Myers
Grigorenko
16

for

1

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06-12-2013, 09:14 PM
  #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hizzoner View Post
At the 8 position the Sabres have a shot at Nurse, Lindholm, Ristoleinen etc. assuming Jones, MacKinnon, Drouin, Barkov, Nicushkin and Monahan go top 6. I do not see the fantastic difference between Nurse /Ristoleinen and Jones that most on these boards do. Give up 8 plus 16 plus plus plus? After all Jones is being touted as the consensus number 1. But because the Sabres covet a skilled number 1 centre they will gut their future for a guy rated number 2? I hope MacKinnon has a great career but I think Nurse/Lindholm, Myers, Grigorenko/Armia and Horvat/Lazar/Pulock/Zadarov would bode better for the Sabres future. I would be ok with a smaller bounce up for Barkov but not for an overpayment--the 8th pick will be a good one this year unlike many 8th picks in other years if the scouts are right....Let me see..where are the Islanders led by Tavares, the Oilers led by RNH, the Lightning led by Stamkos drafting this year???
I'm with you here. The sabres IMO have that skilled center in grigorenko.

I'm not giving up the farm to move to #1. Both picks or 1 pick and 2 bigger pieces, I'm ok with. I'd rather just sit back and take other pieces to build around.

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06-12-2013, 09:16 PM
  #222
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06-12-2013, 09:20 PM
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hizzoner View Post
At the 8 position the Sabres have a shot at Nurse, Lindholm, Ristoleinen etc. assuming Jones, MacKinnon, Drouin, Barkov, Nicushkin and Monahan go top 6. I do not see the fantastic difference between Nurse /Ristoleinen and Jones that most on these boards do. Give up 8 plus 16 plus plus plus? After all Jones is being touted as the consensus number 1. But because the Sabres covet a skilled number 1 centre they will gut their future for a guy rated number 2? I hope MacKinnon has a great career but I think Nurse/Lindholm, Myers, Grigorenko/Armia and Horvat/Lazar/Pulock/Zadarov would bode better for the Sabres future. I would be ok with a smaller bounce up for Barkov but not for an overpayment--the 8th pick will be a good one this year unlike many 8th picks in other years if the scouts are right....Let me see..where are the Islanders led by Tavares, the Oilers led by RNH, the Lightning led by Stamkos drafting this year???
Well if the Sabres value nurse and lindholm similarly to jones and mackinnon, they'd be stupid to give anything to move up. However, most other teams have jones and mackinnon ranked significantly higher.

As for your last point, how are the Kane/toews led Blackhawks doing?very much goes both ways.

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06-12-2013, 09:33 PM
  #224
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Fan of neither team, but since the Avs are in the position the Oilers are familiar with, it's pretty obvious to pass on Mackinnon or Jones they would need to such a ridiculous offer that they have no choice but to accept.

I can't see any package of picks and prospects getting it done.

I think if Mackinnon is their guy then they just stay at #1 and take him and be happy. IF Jones is their guy, maybe they could make a deal with Myers going the other way.

History suggests the 1st overall pick is going to be an elite player, so I would think something like Myers + 8th overall + their choice of 16th overall / Foligno / Grigorenko would at least be something to consider.

A lot of that would depend on Roy's love for Grigorenko, which we are to assume he has, and then of course his valuation on where Myers' game is going in the future.

It's a big gamble for the Avs because if Myers continues to slide they could lose this trade in a HUGE way. That being said, if Myers somehow regains top pairing form, they may win the deal in a big way and have depth in all areas.

Tough call.

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Old
06-12-2013, 09:35 PM
  #225
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