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Vancouver + Minnesota

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Old
06-12-2013, 11:24 PM
  #51
Ho Borvat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
That's where the buyout come in.

Jesus Christ are you guys naive if you think someone will turn down easy money to be "the good guy."

GMs dug their own graves with nonsense contracts like these.

Nobody in their right mind say, "yeah, I'll just retire and give you fools a break on the contract YOU GAVE ME!"

At some point, they will all be bought out, and the GM that has to do it will curse their predecessor for the cap hit it will cost.

Luongo will still be a hugely expensive buyout, even when he is nearly 40. He won't just retire to satisfy the needs of armchair GMs on the internet. That is GUARANTEED money, and nobody walks away from that, in spite of how wealthy they are, unless he is a nephew of Mother Teresa.
I issue a challenge.

Find someone who agrees that Suter/Parise/Luongo etc will be bought out when they are 40.

I think you are legitimately the only person with this belief.

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Old
06-12-2013, 11:35 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by radaich View Post
Luongo sucks in the Xcel Energy Center so why would the wild want him
Yes because playing for the Wild at home would end in the exact same result as Vancouver playing there on the road.

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Old
06-12-2013, 11:37 PM
  #53
Ho Borvat
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So... How about that original proposal..

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Old
06-12-2013, 11:41 PM
  #54
Bookman
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
I issue a challenge.

Find someone who agrees that Suter/Parise/Luongo etc will be bought out when they are 40.

I think you are legitimately the only person with this belief.
Right.

They will be bought out when they are no longer effective hockey players. Odds are given their age and the length of their contracts, that will before their contracts expire.

Who knows, maybe Luongo will win the Vezina when he is in his 40s. Hasek was great until he was a geezer, who knows? Brodeur is 41. Is RL in their league? I wouldn't bet on it, but my crystal ball ain't no better than yours. The man is under contract until he is 43.

I could see Suter living out the terms of his contract, Parise less so.


It all goes back to negotiating these deals: they take the best deal on the table, and they aren't going to retire early to do favors to the team.

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Old
06-12-2013, 11:50 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
Right.

They will be bought out when they are no longer effective hockey players. Odds are given their age and the length of their contracts, that will before their contracts expire.

Who knows, maybe Luongo will win the Vezina when he is in his 40s. Hasek was great until he was a geezer, who knows? Brodeur is 41. Is RL in their league? I wouldn't bet on it, but my crystal ball ain't no better than yours. The man is under contract until he is 43.

I could see Suter living out the terms of his contract, Parise less so.


It all goes back to negotiating these deals: they take the best deal on the table, and they aren't going to retire early to do favors to the team.
So what your saying is
- You don't accept my challenge
- Your the only person who thinks players will play the entire duration of their retirement deals

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Old
06-13-2013, 12:07 AM
  #56
Bookman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
So what your saying is
- You don't accept my challenge
- Your the only person who thinks players will play the entire duration of their retirement deals
No, I think they WON'T play out their deals. Painful as it might be, reread my posts.

Actually, your post makes no sense whatsoever.

You wrote:

Quote:
Find someone who agrees that Suter/Parise/Luongo etc will be bought out when they are 40.

I think you are legitimately the only person with this belief.
Which way do you want it?

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Old
06-13-2013, 12:15 AM
  #57
Rabid Husky
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Aside from getting the best possible goaltender available.
With a contract that is not worth it, as Bookman keeps sayiing. Yes he is a good goalie, but financially, it would be stupid to do this.

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Old
06-13-2013, 12:18 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Rabid Husky View Post
With a contract that is not worth it, as Bookman keeps sayiing. Yes he is a good goalie, but financially, it would be stupid to do this.
Actually it was proven earlier in the thread that your assertation is incorrect.

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Old
06-13-2013, 12:32 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
No, I think they WON'T play out their deals. Painful as it might be, reread my posts.

Actually, your post makes no sense whatsoever.

You wrote:



Which way do you want it?
Your the only one who thinks players will either play out or be bought out of their retirement deals.

Is that clear?

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Old
06-13-2013, 12:58 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
Actually it was proven earlier in the thread that your assertation is incorrect.
Really? His contract doesn't extend past the point where he is likely to be effective? He'll for sure just retire and pass up essentially free money? It hasn't been proven, it's just another assumption.

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Old
06-13-2013, 01:08 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Husky View Post
Really? His contract doesn't extend past the point where he is likely to be effective? He'll for sure just retire and pass up essentially free money? It hasn't been proven, it's just another assumption.
You really think a goalie like Luongo would ride the pine for a million a year when he's 40+ years old?

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Old
06-13-2013, 01:11 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
You really think a goalie like Luongo would ride the pine for a million a year when he's 40+ years old?
No, apparently the goalie that says his "contract sucks" and would rip it up if he could is going to attempt to force his team to buy him out of the remaining few million of his deal rather than retire when the writing is on the wall.

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Old
06-13-2013, 01:16 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
You really think a goalie like Luongo would ride the pine for a million a year when he's 40+ years old?
I don't know, he may, he may not. But i'd rather it not be the Wild's problem. Vancouver signed him to it, it's their problem, they can have it.

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Old
06-13-2013, 01:16 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Husky View Post
Really? His contract doesn't extend past the point where he is likely to be effective? He'll for sure just retire and pass up essentially free money? It hasn't been proven, it's just another assumption.
Correct me if I am wrong.. But aren't Luongo/Suter/Kovalchuk/Parise/Hossas etc contracts known as "retirement deals".

I mean maybe I am mistaken but I swear I have heard these refered to as retirement deals...

But I am not quite sure why everyone refers to them this way..

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Old
06-13-2013, 01:18 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Correct me if I am wrong.. But aren't Luongo/Suter/Kovalchuk/Parise/Hossas etc contracts known as "retirement deals".

I mean maybe I am mistaken but I swear I have heard these refered to as retirement deals...

But I am not quite sure why everyone refers to them this way..
Read the above post and knock off the sarcasm.

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Old
06-13-2013, 01:21 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Husky View Post
Read the above post and knock off the sarcasm.
Well obviously the Wilds owners/management aren't scared of the possibility that a 40 year old player would stick around to collect less than 1/7th of their normal paycheck...

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Old
06-13-2013, 01:26 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Well obviously the Wilds owners/management aren't scared of the possibility that a 40 year old player would stick around to collect less than 1/7th of their normal paycheck...
Fine. I'm not on the damn staff. I'm giving my opinion of the deal and under no circumstances do I want Luongo on this team and it is because of his contract.
So if you want it done so bad, get your GM to contact ours. Otherwise this is just a lot of nothing now isn't it?

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Old
06-13-2013, 02:11 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
That's where the buyout come in.

Jesus Christ are you guys naive if you think someone will turn down easy money to be "the good guy."

GMs dug their own graves with nonsense contracts like these.

Nobody in their right mind say, "yeah, I'll just retire and give you fools a break on the contract YOU GAVE ME!"

At some point, they will all be bought out, and the GM that has to do it will curse their predecessor for the cap hit it will cost.

Luongo will still be a hugely expensive buyout, even when he is nearly 40. He won't just retire to satisfy the needs of armchair GMs on the internet. That is GUARANTEED money, and nobody walks away from that, in spite of how wealthy they are, unless he is a nephew of Mother Teresa.
To buy out the last 3 years of Luongo's deal would cost $2.4m in cash, $402K per year for 6 years. The cap hits would be $4.1m 4.73m 4.73m 402K 402K 402K - for a team at the floor those cap values could be great for just a 400K hit. To offset the cost they trade $2.4m of dud salary back - at which point it is all cream for them.

This isn't just Luongo, a lot of these deals could end being used to make the floor in 7-10.


Last edited by me2: 06-13-2013 at 03:03 AM.
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Old
06-13-2013, 02:45 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by dwanmaster View Post
We don't want Luongo. His contract is worse than Heatley's and we have Kuepmer and Gustafson waiting for their shot.
How have we gotten to this point?

Luongo who would actually be your team's starting goalie and gets paid a reasonable starting goalie salary with a reduced cap hit has a terrible contract because it runs 3 years too long while a guy like Heatley who has been absolutely terrible, has a higher salary, and a much higher cap hit is on a better contract?

All that has to happen is Luongo needs to go on LTIR or hold-out with 3 years left on his contract and it's like his deal isn't even too long.

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Old
06-13-2013, 03:25 AM
  #70
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To Minny Upshall Ballard
To Florida Luongo
To Vancouver Heatley

Minny takes on two players who can rebound and be productive players in a different system.
Florida gets a starting Goalie for a player they can replace from within.
Vancouver grabs a goal scorer who could thrive on a PP with the Twins just parking himself in shooting positions.

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Old
06-13-2013, 10:05 AM
  #71
Ho Borvat
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Originally Posted by mstad101 View Post
To Minny Upshall Ballard
To Florida Luongo
To Vancouver Heatley

Minny takes on two players who can rebound and be productive players in a different system.
Florida gets a starting Goalie for a player they can replace from within.
Vancouver grabs a goal scorer who could thrive on a PP with the Twins just parking himself in shooting positions.
How do we fit Heatley?

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Old
06-13-2013, 10:26 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
How have we gotten to this point?

Luongo who would actually be your team's starting goalie and gets paid a reasonable starting goalie salary with a reduced cap hit has a terrible contract because it runs 3 years too long while a guy like Heatley who has been absolutely terrible, has a higher salary, and a much higher cap hit is on a better contract?

All that has to happen is Luongo needs to go on LTIR or hold-out with 3 years left on his contract and it's like his deal isn't even too long.
The ONLY reason Heatley's contract is better than Luongo's is because it's over after this year... we have one more year of Dany and we're done. In fact, because he's a UFA after this season, he has some value at the trade deadline. That's it.

That said, I'd love Lu in Minnesota. He'd be a great fit there.

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Old
06-13-2013, 11:10 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by PuckInTheNards View Post
The ONLY reason Heatley's contract is better than Luongo's is because it's over after this year... we have one more year of Dany and we're done. In fact, because he's a UFA after this season, he has some value at the trade deadline. That's it.

That said, I'd love Lu in Minnesota. He'd be a great fit there.
If you guys wanted to keep Heatley in the OP I would be fine.

Luongo + Raymond/Lapierres rights
For
Cal Clutterbuck, Kyle Brodziak and Zenon Konopka

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Old
06-13-2013, 11:35 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
If you guys wanted to keep Heatley in the OP I would be fine.

Luongo + Raymond/Lapierres rights
For
Cal Clutterbuck, Kyle Brodziak and Zenon Konopka
Of course you would be fine with it, the Wild keeping Heatley makes this deal even worse for them.

The Wild aren't in a position where they can trade Brodziak right now. Your proposal has them trading 2 of the 3 centers that played last year and are still under contract. As a Canuck fan, you especially should know how not having enough serviceable centers turns out...

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Old
06-13-2013, 11:59 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by rafterman View Post
Of course you would be fine with it, the Wild keeping Heatley makes this deal even worse for them.

The Wild aren't in a position where they can trade Brodziak right now. Your proposal has them trading 2 of the 3 centers that played last year and are still under contract. As a Canuck fan, you especially should know how not having enough serviceable centers turns out...
A Wild poster mentioned how Heatley could be an asset at the deadline. I inferred that meaning he wanted to keep Heatley.

1) Your getting a center in return (or at least rights, and he would offset the loss of Konopka).
2) Whats a bigger hole, 3C or goaltending (assuming Backstrom walks)?

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