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What did Chicago do to get back to the SCF that the Penguins didn't?

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Old
06-18-2013, 10:36 PM
  #226
Sidgeni Malkby
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
New league-wide conspiracy: the zero tolerance for obstruction penalties meant a much larger number of guys scoring a lot of points, thus driving up salaries and FA madness, nullifying cap room increases. In order to improve margins, owners have secretly approved more clutch and grab hockey to slowly push point totals down, cooling the race to average players getting 6M contracts.

It's UNCLE GARY's FAULT!
Lol just wait until a Claude Lemieux wins the Conn Smythe. Then those type of guys will be commanding the $8M/year.

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06-19-2013, 12:25 AM
  #227
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To be honest, I saw the Wings doing more "clutch and grab" to Chicago than the Bruins are.

What the Bruins have going for them is a 6'3 goaltender wearing a 6'9 goaltender's pads. They just pack 5 guys in the house waving their sticks and ignore the points, knowing the odds of a point shot not hitting a body, not hitting a stick then missing a goaltender in humongous pads, who, to his credit, is in the right place, and going in is nonexistent. I don't really think any of that has anything to do with the officiating. The league's equipment office, maybe.

I mean, look at the guy



He's 20% thicker and wider in his gear than a guy who must have 60 pounds on him.

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Old
06-19-2013, 05:40 AM
  #228
TravisUlrich
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I don't agree with blaming officiating. You can't do that (anymore). Everyone knows what you're getting into in the playoffs and you build your team accordingly. We shouldn't panic (outside of our goaltending situation maybe). We had no puck luck in this series and, outside of Game 2, could have taken any game in this series had a puck just gone 2 inches one way or the other. It was a sweep but 3 of the 4 games were very, very winnable.

And for the amount of complaining this board usually does about Bylsma's defensive scheme, I thought that we looked very good when the team suddenly became very comfortable with Vokoun.

Anyway, were more than 75% of the way there. Outside of goaltending (we'll see if Fleury can bounce back... Feel like I've been saying that for a long time), it's going to be a case of more minor tinkering.

This team is going to continue to be a joy to watch for the next decade.

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Old
06-19-2013, 08:50 AM
  #229
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The game mechanics of the NHL are clearly jacked up. If a mid-tier goalie and an average defense can totally shut down an offense consisting of the best 2 players in the world.. then clearly the game is tilted towards defense/goaltending.

It would be a lot like if an NFL team consisting of Joe Montana and Jerry Rice couldn't put up more than a touchdown against the Steelers defense. If something like that occured, it would seem to indicate that something is wrong with the game. Clearly the rulebook and game mechanics are set up in a way that benefits defense/goaltending while stifling offense.

I feel like that is the case in the NHL these days. They gotta think about some constructive rule changes that will bring parity back into the game.

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06-19-2013, 09:06 AM
  #230
Darth Vitale
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There is definitely something to the goalie equipment situation but that's not new. There is a reason all these teams are drafting huge-framed goalies. It's not that 6'5" goalies are better than 6'0" goalies on average. It's simple math: if the pads for every goalie are too big by the same amount, the bigger the frame you hang them on, the more of the net is blocked (without the goalie having to do anyting but stand in there).

The trend teams are taking advantage of the last few years is obvious and indisputable. Here is your evidence. Guys drafted / acquired by the same team grouped together.

Rinne
Linback

Lehtonen
Pavelec

Bishop
Lehner

Luongo
Markstrom (different eras but point stands)


Gustavsson

Smith

Rask

"Smallish" is now guys like:

Reimer
Allen
et al, at 6'2"

You want a guarantee of being drafted into the NHL? Be a European goalie with solid technique, and be 6'3" or taller. That won't change until the equipment rules change. These guys are still a minority overall, but within 3 to 5 years they will be the majority if the rules don't change.

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06-19-2013, 09:38 AM
  #231
Sidgeni Malkby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
There is definitely something to the goalie equipment situation but that's not new. There is a reason all these teams are drafting huge-framed goalies. It's not that 6'5" goalies are better than 6'0" goalies on average. It's simple math: if the pads for every goalie are too big by the same amount, the bigger the frame you hang them on, the more of the net is blocked (without the goalie having to do anyting but stand in there).
This is also a problem, but remember these same goalies are wearing the same equipment in the regular season.

I do agree that reducing goalie equipment will likely fix it.

You could also reduce the plastic on player equipment. It would lead to less blocked shots (and less concussions by the way), which would also fix it.

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Old
06-19-2013, 11:49 AM
  #232
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Why are you so insecure? Show me where anyone is blaming the Bruins? They boggle your mind because you either are unable or unwilling to read and process and acknowledge that the NHL is making a conscious decision to change the way the game is officiated in the playoffs, and we don't enjoy it. The Bruins are doing absolutely nothing wrong, the NHL is.

Or: team from the north east good league bad.

i hope that clears it up
Isn't calling every ticky tacky penalty during the playoffs diametrically opposed to wanting a return to more dynamic hockey? At least part of the reason the NHL pulls back a bit on calling penalties during the playoffs has to be not wanting a stoppage of play every couple of minutes. Power plays are tense, but I wouldn't call them particularly exciting, since it involves a lot of icing the puck.

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Old
06-19-2013, 11:51 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
The game mechanics of the NHL are clearly jacked up. If a mid-tier goalie and an average defense can totally shut down an offense consisting of the best 2 players in the world.. then clearly the game is tilted towards defense/goaltending.
I'm not sure how you get to this. Crosby and Malkin are most likely the two best players in the world, but Rask is a top three goalie and the Bruins probably have the best defense in the NHL.

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06-19-2013, 12:10 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cassius View Post
The game mechanics of the NHL are clearly jacked up. If a mid-tier goalie and an average defense can totally shut down an offense consisting of the best 2 players in the world.. then clearly the game is tilted towards defense/goaltending.

It would be a lot like if an NFL team consisting of Joe Montana and Jerry Rice couldn't put up more than a touchdown against the Steelers defense. If something like that occured, it would seem to indicate that something is wrong with the game. Clearly the rulebook and game mechanics are set up in a way that benefits defense/goaltending while stifling offense.

I feel like that is the case in the NHL these days. They gotta think about some constructive rule changes that will bring parity back into the game.
I agree with your general point somewhat, though not nearly to the degree you seem to. But seriously, Rask is a great goalie and they have a great defense.

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06-19-2013, 01:22 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by GCabot View Post
Isn't calling every ticky tacky penalty during the playoffs diametrically opposed to wanting a return to more dynamic hockey? At least part of the reason the NHL pulls back a bit on calling penalties during the playoffs has to be not wanting a stoppage of play every couple of minutes. Power plays are tense, but I wouldn't call them particularly exciting, since it involves a lot of icing the puck.
No, you're wrong and this displays a horrible lack of common sense and intelligence.

If you are going to call penalties, but you're going to pick and choose when you call penalties, it leads to inconsistent, unpredictable officiating and opens the leagues up to questions of favoritism and conspiracies.

If you are going to have rules in the rule book, you must enforce them consistency and evenly, regular season or post season. If you don't want to call those rules, simply remove them from the rulebook so that everyone understands and can react accordingly.

It's very very simple. I don't care what the rules are, just enforce them. If a team commits a penalty every time they are on the ice, you should call them for it every time. That's why you have rules. They aren't optional, like pants.

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Old
06-19-2013, 02:25 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
No, you're wrong and this displays a horrible lack of common sense and intelligence.

If you are going to call penalties, but you're going to pick and choose when you call penalties, it leads to inconsistent, unpredictable officiating and opens the leagues up to questions of favoritism and conspiracies.

If you are going to have rules in the rule book, you must enforce them consistency and evenly, regular season or post season. If you don't want to call those rules, simply remove them from the rulebook so that everyone understands and can react accordingly.

It's very very simple. I don't care what the rules are, just enforce them. If a team commits a penalty every time they are on the ice, you should call them for it every time. That's why you have rules. They aren't optional, like pants.
100x this. I just don't get it. Make the rules, the rules. Other sports do it in playoff games and they are better for it.

If anyone doesn't think swallowing the whistles favours a team built like boston vs one built like the hawks (or pens) they are pretty clueless.

Heck if they want to make it legal to 2 handed chop people in the head, i guess go ahead and change the rules. But moving target rules is just ridiculous.

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Old
06-19-2013, 03:04 PM
  #237
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They didn't mess up team chemistry at the end of the regular season.

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Old
06-19-2013, 04:20 PM
  #238
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Play Defense.....

It's that simple, the Hawks are very good on Defense.

The Pens tend to cheat a little too much leaving the zone.

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Old
06-19-2013, 04:24 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Play Defense.....

It's that simple, the Hawks are very good on Defense.

The Pens tend to cheat a little too much leaving the zone.
we scored 2 goals in 4 games and people are still claiming our defensive play is is why we aren't in the finals and Chicago is. I just don't get it. Our d-men's biggest problem in the Boston series was that they weren't good enough at supporting the offense. Game 2 was the only time we had bad team defense. And that wasn't because they aren't good enough, its because the whole damn team forgot there was a game that night.

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06-19-2013, 04:26 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by GCabot View Post
Isn't calling every ticky tacky penalty during the playoffs diametrically opposed to wanting a return to more dynamic hockey? At least part of the reason the NHL pulls back a bit on calling penalties during the playoffs has to be not wanting a stoppage of play every couple of minutes. Power plays are tense, but I wouldn't call them particularly exciting, since it involves a lot of icing the puck.
Well, if the players know the refs are going to call the game "by the book", they'll be less inclined to cheat, and the number of penalties shouldn't increase.

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06-19-2013, 04:28 PM
  #241
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Well, if the players know the refs are going to call the game "by the book", they'll be less inclined to cheat, and the penalties shouldn't increase.
exactly this. Too many people have the mentality that the refs are at fault if there are too many penalties being called. Its the players who commit the infractions that should get the blame, and its the players that should adjust to the rules. Instead, the blame goes to the refs and the refs adjust to the players.

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06-19-2013, 04:29 PM
  #242
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This team needs new blood. Young speedy legs at wing especially.

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Old
06-19-2013, 07:15 PM
  #243
billybudd
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
There is definitely something to the goalie equipment situation but that's not new. There is a reason all these teams are drafting huge-framed goalies. It's not that 6'5" goalies are better than 6'0" goalies on average. It's simple math: if the pads for every goalie are too big by the same amount, the bigger the frame you hang them on, the more of the net is blocked (without the goalie having to do anyting but stand in there).

The trend teams are taking advantage of the last few years is obvious and indisputable. Here is your evidence. Guys drafted / acquired by the same team grouped together.

Rinne
Linback

Lehtonen
Pavelec

Bishop
Lehner

Luongo
Markstrom (different eras but point stands)


Gustavsson

Smith

Rask

"Smallish" is now guys like:

Reimer
Allen
et al, at 6'2"

You want a guarantee of being drafted into the NHL? Be a European goalie with solid technique, and be 6'3" or taller. That won't change until the equipment rules change. These guys are still a minority overall, but within 3 to 5 years they will be the majority if the rules don't change.
What I'm saying is I think something IS new with the goaltending equipment and Rask is at the forefront of whatever it is (and it looks to be something with his chest protector).

Way back when Giguere had that ridiculous playoff run, everyone and their mother could see there was something off about his chest protector. But the one he was wearing was legal. Biggest one you could buy that the NHL approved of, but still NHL approved. Turns out he had it seated against his pants somehow that made it ride up like 4 inches above where it would have been if it was resting on his shoulders. So the rules were changed.

Belfour used to be unbeatable six hole. Just unbeatable. Turns out he had a "sweat guard" or some fake branded thing like that under his arm pits that spread a webbing. There was actually a net under his jersey between his mid arm and hip. Anything getting through there went into the net blocking the 4 x 6 net. So the rules were changed.

Goaltender "cheating" is always evolving. Allaire patented some contraption a year or two ago that's marketed as safer for the knee. In reality, what it's designed to do is get around the leg pad length restriction by shifting the pads a couple inches as they would be useful depending on whether the tender is upright or butterflied.

My eyes tell me Rask has something like that going on. His pads, specifically his chest protector, look flat out wrong. He's 6'3, which is big (well, average for a goalie these days), but he covers a higher percentage of net while resting than Bishop, Anderson and Rinne, who have wider, taller frames. Something stinks here, and it's not the Bruins packing the house.

Edit: TL DR think Rask found a loophole that allows his equipment to cover greater than normal net.


Last edited by billybudd: 06-19-2013 at 07:23 PM.
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Old
06-19-2013, 07:34 PM
  #244
Being Gene Malkovich
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They drafted Brandon Saad...
We drafted Brendan... I mean Joe Morrow... sigh.

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Old
06-19-2013, 07:44 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Being Gene Malkovich View Post
They drafted Brandon Saad...
We drafted Brendan... I mean Joe Morrow... sigh.
They drafted and PLAYED Brandon Saad. We drafted Joe Morrow, Beau Bennett, Simon Despres, and played Mark Eaton, Engo, and any plugger available over Bennett.

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06-19-2013, 10:24 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by Being Gene Malkovich View Post
They drafted Brandon Saad...
We drafted Brendan... I mean Joe Morrow... sigh.
Dallas likes him, I think. I feel like maybe they went out and got Sarge to work his Kris Letang / Erik Karlsson tutoring magic.

If it works, I expect old Gooch to be getting good coaching dollars for many years to come.

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Old
06-19-2013, 10:46 PM
  #247
#66
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This team needs new blood. Young speedy legs at wing especially.
If Disco is going to stretch pass to death then the Pens NEED speed on the wings. Look at how good Sully fit in last year... then look at how Poni, Comrie, Iggy and Morrow looked.

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Old
06-19-2013, 10:56 PM
  #248
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If Disco is going to stretch pass to death then the Pens NEED speed on the wings. Look at how good Sully fit in last year... then look at how Poni, Comrie, Iggy and Morrow looked.
There seems to be a big disconnect between the coach and the GM.

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06-19-2013, 10:58 PM
  #249
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13 Hawks skaters registered a point tonight.

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06-19-2013, 11:25 PM
  #250
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Glad Chicago won tonight. But hate the way the game was reffed, as I have these playoffs. Any team with players like Crosby, Malkin, Neal, etc has to hate the league is rewarding clutching and grabbing and penalizing skill. And whether Boston ends up winning the cup or not, we are going to see a lot of the league go further down that path after this playoffs.

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