HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

What did Chicago do to get back to the SCF that the Penguins didn't?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-25-2013, 02:42 AM
  #326
12IsGreaterThan47
BEN LOVEJOY
 
12IsGreaterThan47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: BEN LOVEJOY
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,522
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
Or if you don't believe the regular season is indicative of how good a team is, then you want Bylsma fired because his team has consistently sucked when it mattered. I think you are stretching it to come up with the logic that you did.
But then that's coaching, and not quality of team.

I'm really not stretching it. I believe bigger sample size >>>>>> tiny sample size.

I'm not saying the Penguins deserved better, they didn't. But they proved over the course of 59 games that they were really, really good.

The outcome against the Bruins went beyond "quality of team"

12IsGreaterThan47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 04:37 AM
  #327
specialized
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 826
vCash: 500
The pens ran into a hot goalie and there stars never showed up. There is not much different between the hawks and pens.

specialized is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 04:42 AM
  #328
potsiev2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Delaware
Country: United States
Posts: 338
vCash: 500
the blackhawks have duncan keith and seabrook... lets end the comparison

potsiev2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 04:54 AM
  #329
Koempel
Registered User
 
Koempel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ljubljana
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 1,587
vCash: 500
Of course the Pens lose when they play run and gun in the postseason. The other team would be ******** to respond in the same way. They just counterattack while collapsing around their own net. The Pens did not have a lot of luck with all the posts and missed chances, but Bylsma his stuborness does not help.

Koempel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 05:37 AM
  #330
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 53,856
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by potsiev2 View Post
the blackhawks have duncan keith and seabrook... lets end the comparison
If we played Letang and Martin together, I think it would be about as good a pair. We don't have anyone else to anchor the second pairing though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koempel View Post
Of course the Pens lose when they play run and gun in the postseason. The other team would be ******** to respond in the same way. They just counterattack while collapsing around their own net. The Pens did not have a lot of luck with all the posts and missed chances, but Bylsma his stuborness does not help.
Did we really Run and Gun against Boston in those 2-1 and 1-0 losses?

Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 06:11 AM
  #331
AEKaki
Registered User
 
AEKaki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Greektown, MONTREAL
Country: Greece
Posts: 4,058
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
If we played Letang and Martin together, I think it would be about as good a pair. We don't have anyone else to anchor the second
As much as i'd like to believe you, there's no comparison...
Keith + Seabrooke >>> Letang + Martin

Offensively we may be as good or almost as good, but we defensively that pair of our's isn't that good compared to them. We have better D prospects though...

AEKaki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 07:22 AM
  #332
Ogelthorpe
Who do you play for?
 
Ogelthorpe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 2,573
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koempel View Post
Of course the Pens lose when they play run and gun in the postseason. The other team would be ******** to respond in the same way. They just counterattack while collapsing around their own net. The Pens did not have a lot of luck with all the posts and missed chances, but Bylsma his stuborness does not help.
Really....we're still at this. This isn't 2012...we didn't lose because we played too much offense and no defense. We scored 2 goals in a series.

We lost due to a really good goalie who played even above his expectations, the fact that our stars didn't get even 1 point, and we didn't get a bounce. I have never been someone who says the other team gets all the breaks, but as an example, look at Bolland's goal last night....puck bounces off the post and right on his blade...we hit the post 20 times it seemed, and not one found its way to one of our guys in front.

Ogelthorpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 07:47 AM
  #333
vodeni
Registered User
 
vodeni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 9,732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
Really....we're still at this. This isn't 2012...we didn't lose because we played too much offense and no defense. We scored 2 goals in a series.

We lost due to a really good goalie who played even above his expectations, the fact that our stars didn't get even 1 point, and we didn't get a bounce. I have never been someone who says the other team gets all the breaks, but as an example, look at Bolland's goal last night....puck bounces off the post and right on his blade...we hit the post 20 times it seemed, and not one found its way to one of our guys in front.
We played better offensively, way better than Chicago did the entire series all that up to puck getting into the net. Chicago got every single bounce and Tuka although still very good didnot have that extra crazy luck to stop everything.

vodeni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 07:51 AM
  #334
The Old Master
Registered User
 
The Old Master's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: burgh
Country: United States
Posts: 7,451
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
Really....we're still at this. This isn't 2012...we didn't lose because we played too much offense and no defense. We scored 2 goals in a series.

We lost due to a really good goalie who played even above his expectations, the fact that our stars didn't get even 1 point, and we didn't get a bounce. I have never been someone who says the other team gets all the breaks, but as an example, look at Bolland's goal last night....puck bounces off the post and right on his blade...we hit the post 20 times it seemed, and not one found its way to one of our guys in front.
it might be that they have players in front of the net? just sayen

The Old Master is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 07:56 AM
  #335
vodeni
Registered User
 
vodeni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 9,732
vCash: 500
Really have to have luck, I don't know how else to say, everyone else is talking about an epic collapse. Please help me out. I watched the game. Chicago got on a pp could not set a play, Boston was dominating them, pushing them around, and than off the rush, goal, and the other one before you know it....

Hockey is a weird sport, really it is...

vodeni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 08:30 AM
  #336
#66
Registered User
 
#66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 11,583
vCash: 500
With the exception of center depth the Hawks are just flat out better than the Pens. The Pens play superstar hockey and lost... again.

Harder
Faster
More well rounded offensively
More structured all over the ice
Better coached
Better puck management
Better puck support
Better net support at both ends

All while playing very close to the same way as the Pens. Maybe that's why the Pens are so happy with themselves. They aren't that far off from what the Hawks did... yet they have no clue that they're miles away.

#66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 08:40 AM
  #337
Funk311
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Master View Post
it might be that they have players in front of the net? just sayen
This guy is right. I would agree to some extent we had a tough go with bounces regardless, but net front presence means dirty goals. Earning that luck. I saw Chicago tipping and screening. We were always in a four foot gap between the Bruins collapsed house and the boards.

How to improve there Idk. I think elements of star hockey, pens hockey (read db), and lack of Pf on the roster contributed. Maybe that's why beau looked so good. While not a Malone, he was effective getting pucks from the corners to the front, storming the walls. We may just need more guys talented at creating space between to circles.

Funk311 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 09:04 AM
  #338
gordie
Journeyman Despres
 
gordie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,954
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEKaki View Post
As much as i'd like to believe you, there's no comparison...
Keith + Seabrooke >>> Letang + Martin

Offensively we may be as good or almost as good, but we defensively that pair of our's isn't that good compared to them. We have better D prospects though...
They won two cups with Niemi & Crawford, just another example that coaching incompetence is costing this franchise cup wins.

gordie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 09:05 AM
  #339
NastyNick
Registered User
 
NastyNick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vodeni View Post
Really have to have luck, I don't know how else to say, everyone else is talking about an epic collapse. Please help me out. I watched the game. Chicago got on a pp could not set a play, Boston was dominating them, pushing them around, and than off the rush, goal, and the other one before you know it....

Hockey is a weird sport, really it is...
Yep, that is about it too.

Toronto should have beaten Boston by all accounts. I'll always look back at this run and think of that big "what if". I'd imagine the Pens would have made a trip to the finals if the Leafs had sealed off that series. Detroit could have very well beaten Chicago too.

I guess all you can hope for every year is that they make the playoffs and everyone is healthy. That puts you in as good a position as anyone else.

NastyNick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 09:17 AM
  #340
SaturdayNightSlegr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Pittsburgh suburbs
Country: United States
Posts: 604
vCash: 500
Chicago scored as many goals in last two minutes of game 6 as the pens scored the entire series.

Chicago's depth on 3rd and 4th lines is miles ahead of Pitts, guys like Bolland, Kruger, stalberg, were solid at both ends. The fact that Saad was played consistently in their top 6 was a huge factor in improving their depth, something the pens didn't do with BB.

Also, all 6 of the hawks D could skate and move the puck. Murray and engo didn't provide that at all. Lovejoy has the skills to be a solid depth PMD, but his brainfarts justifiably caused him to be traded.

SaturdayNightSlegr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 09:17 AM
  #341
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
 
Le Magnifique 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,327
vCash: 500
Good move by Quenneville after game 3 to reunite both Kane and Toews. Lights out in the last 3 games

Le Magnifique 66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 09:21 AM
  #342
Griffin6612
Registered User
 
Griffin6612's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,539
vCash: 920
Every one here is kidding if were easily comparing our selves to the black hawks. Find me a blackhawks goal with out a person camping in front of the net. Now find me a penguins goal with one in front of the net. That was the difference. And its sad how black and white it was.

Griffin6612 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 09:26 AM
  #343
Old Gregg
I'm Old Gregg!!
 
Old Gregg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,833
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
Good move by Quenneville after game 3 to reunite both Kane and Toews. Lights out in the last 3 games
This was key for the Blackhawks. They opened up space for each other and were great the last 3 games. The Pens had no one to open up space for Crosby and Malkin. The Bruins would double or triple team them and knew that Kunitz, Dupuis, Neal and Cooke couldn't beat them. The Pens need to find a top 6 winger who can create space. Bennett will hopefully do that next year for either Malkin or Crosby but they still need to find another winger for the top 6

Either
Kunitz - Crosby - Bennett
Top 6 LW - Malkin - Neal

or

Top 6 LW - Crosby - Bennett
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal

The Pens can't go into the playoffs next year with Dupuis in the Top 6

Old Gregg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 09:33 AM
  #344
gordie
Journeyman Despres
 
gordie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,954
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffin6612 View Post
Every one here is kidding if were easily comparing our selves to the black hawks. Find me a blackhawks goal with out a person camping in front of the net. Now find me a penguins goal with one in front of the net. That was the difference. And its sad how black and white it was.
Bylsma's system of puck possession doesn't rely on having a player taken out of that system and positioned in front of the other team's goalie, that's why he got an extension.

gordie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 10:12 AM
  #345
UnderratedBrooks44
Registered User
 
UnderratedBrooks44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Miranda's house
Posts: 16,930
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adams27 View Post
The pens ran into a hot goalie and there stars never showed up. There is not much different between the hawks and pens.
Yes there is. Their defense is better and their forwards are just as good overall but their depth is better even though they don't have the top end guys we do. Bickell is a player the Penguins flat out do not have right now. Sutter couldn't carry Handzus' jock these playoffs. Hossa is better than any winger we have and Sharp is really good too. The defense's two best players are better than our best two, and again overall the depth is much more solid.

When Kane and Toews are 'meh' the Hawks have other players that can make things happen on their own. The same can't be said of our team.

UnderratedBrooks44 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 10:23 AM
  #346
#66
Registered User
 
#66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 11,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffin6612 View Post
Every one here is kidding if were easily comparing our selves to the black hawks. Find me a blackhawks goal with out a person camping in front of the net. Now find me a penguins goal with one in front of the net. That was the difference. And its sad how black and white it was.
The funny thing is that's all we ever here the Pens talk about. Net presence, center drive, POP... WTF happened????

Even the shot selection was bad and made so sense.

Another big thing the Blackhawks did was to turn those defensemen around. Skate up to them, put the puck behind them and work from the endboards. Kind of like how the Pens beat the Wings in 09.

#66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 10:25 AM
  #347
Sidney the Kidney
Unsustainable
 
Sidney the Kidney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,272
vCash: 50
Folks who think the only difference between Chicago and the Pens is they got the bounces and we didn't are delusional.

Sidney the Kidney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 10:38 AM
  #348
MtlPenFan
Registered User
 
MtlPenFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
Folks who think the only difference between Chicago and the Pens is they got the bounces and we didn't are delusional.
They have much better overall depth, and have a defense constructed to play an offensive game. They can all motor, and there's no Eaton or Murray on that team.

Oh, and who was the slow ass Iginla or Morrow on the 'Hawks? It's a rhetorical question.

MtlPenFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 10:41 AM
  #349
Darth Vitale
Dark Matter
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Darkness
Country: United States
Posts: 28,039
vCash: 500
People are trying too hard to find parallels with the Hawks, but there are few of them. They are a very different team than we are. In fact virtually everything about their team (other than they like the speed game when they can play it) is different from us. Not better necessarily (in all cases), just different.

Coaching - the most obvious and significant difference IMO. Quenville constantly adjusted to Boston's antics, and did a really good job of it for the most part. He had plenty of tricks / contingencies up his sleave. He also showed he could do that against some very different style teams.

Bylsma had no options to present and even when he adjusted it was two games too late and the most conservative, simplistic kind of change. Bylsma has to get better, period. Can't rely on the "young coach" excuse anymore at this point. Learn from the better coaches, have some alternate systems practiced and ready to go next time. Enough of this getting caught with our pants down BS.

Toews v. Crosby - very little is similar about these two players, except their competitive drive and the fact that they're not big guys relative to the competition / get knocked around a lot. Crosby is obviously a more prolific scorer and dangler, but Toews comes up big when he needs to most of the time. Both can make the seeing eye tape-to-tape passes in traffic, in bigtime situations. Advantage us but it's not as huge as it might seem on balance.

Sharp v. Malkin - huge edge to us on this one but Sharp does everything well including PK. IOW he's as good as he needs to be to contribute in all phases, even if he's not close to being the game-breaker Malkin is.

Kane v. Neal - both have lethal snapshots / wristers, but Kane is both more clutch in crunch-time and a more accurate shooter. And he's a FAR better skater and puck-handler. Also one is a big, sometimes agressive guy on the boards, the other is pure finesse. Big advantage to Hawks there on balance.

Hossa v. Bennett (our next most skilled winger) - Hossa is obviously the more polished and well-rounded player, but I could see Bennett becoming a lot like Hossa in some ways. Really smart without the puck, defensively responsible, capable of making great passes / scoring high skill goals, but maybe not with the consistency of Kane or Neal. Hoss is getting older (going on 35) and his goal / assist totals have dropped off from his glory years, while Bennett is going to improve a lot each of the next couple seasons. I'd actually call this about even looking to next year and beyond. Slight advantage to the Hawks maybe.

Saad, Bickell, Boland, et al v. Kunitz, Dupers, et al - regular season I think this is a modest offensive advantage to Chicago but the big difference comes in the playoffs. These guys seem to be more clutch and put up key points more than Kunitz, Dupers, etc (in the playoffs). 4th line is no comparison. Theirs is better. Generally their tweener depth and bottom six depth is just better than ours, plain and simple.

Keith v. Letang - easy to say Keith is way better right now because of the emotional angle. What I think is clear is that he's not more talented or capable, but rather much smarter than Letang. And maybe those extra years make the difference there I'm not sure. Maybe coaching too. But I think it is possible that Letang could change everyone's mind in a hurry if he made the simple / conservative play in more situations, because he's got more offensive skill and upside than Keith. Letang is capable of scoring 70+ pts a season... like every season. Keith is not IMO. He can have those big years but he can't do that consistently.

Seabrook v. Martin - Advantage Chicago, clearly. I like Martin but let's be real here. Seabrook is bigger, stronger, equally good defensively, and at least marginally better offensively.

Orpik v Hjarlmarsson - not really a direct comparison style-wise, but the closest one probably of the available guys. I'd say small advantage Orpik when he's playing guys physical. When he's not, advantage Chicago. In the playoffs, I'd take Orpik but I'm not sure for how much longer.

Goalies - won't even go there, although Vokoun did a great job this year.

In summation, they're a deeper but different looking team, coached to be able to play a fast or slow game equally well, with plenty of guys to step in when someone is stinking it up. We need more quality depth, better coaching and a better goalie and we could make it a series with Chicago.


Last edited by Darth Vitale: 06-25-2013 at 10:48 AM.
Darth Vitale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 10:43 AM
  #350
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 21,127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
Yes there is. Their defense is better and their forwards are just as good overall but their depth is better even though they don't have the top end guys we do. Bickell is a player the Penguins flat out do not have right now. Sutter couldn't carry Handzus' jock these playoffs. Hossa is better than any winger we have and Sharp is really good too. The defense's two best players are better than our best two, and again overall the depth is much more solid.

When Kane and Toews are 'meh' the Hawks have other players that can make things happen on their own. The same can't be said of our team.
When you say their best two blueliners are better than the Pens best two, is that Seabrook you are referring to?

Mr Jiggyfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:05 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.