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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Bure vs. Ovechkin

View Poll Results: Who was better?
8 65 72.22%
96 / 10 25 27.78%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-18-2013, 10:41 AM
  #101
quoipourquoi
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Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
yeah, but Bure also had to play entirely thru the clutch-n-grab era though. Since the 05 lockout, Ovy has had clear open fast ice, with virtually no obstruction to deal with.

I think a lot of this vote is east coast fans who didn't see a lot of Bure. Of course being on the west coast I saw more of Bure than I see of Ovy.

If I had to take one of them to start a team, it would be Bure every time.

And Ovy's occasional "cruising" around the rink doesn't help his cause either.
I don't know that I buy that one, especially since he was an East Coast player during the bulk of the Dead Puck Era. If anything, it's people with long memories that can point to Bure's 1995, 1996, and 1997 and say that Ovechkin's 2012 doesn't look so bad.

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06-18-2013, 06:00 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
The Stamkos talk is laughable. He is several notches below everyone in this conversation. Can you imagine Kariya or Bure or Ovechkin left off their national squads?
Unimaginable that a 20 year old got left off their squad.

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06-18-2013, 10:32 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by JetsAlternate View Post
He was battling substantial injuries during that stretch; I don't think it would be fair or accurate to cite Bure's performance between 1995 and 1997 when comparing the two players.

You can read more about this period of time here:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...7&postcount=89
As I've said about my own dog in the European fight, there's a difference between a reason and an excuse. Injuries often are the reason for a sharp decline in production, but in an all-time argument, they aren't an excuse when there are lesser accomplishments. I don't mind writing the years off entirely; 1995-1997 wasn't the Pavel Bure we'll all remember. All I'm saying is that Ovechkin's bad PR is a little bit fresher. A lot of the goodwill he earned back at the end of the 2013 season was lost by these playoffs, but like 1995-1997 Bure, it's entirely possible we'll gloss over it in 15 years.


EDIT: I do want to add that your continued advocation for Pavel Bure has raised my opinion of him, and it often leaves me feeling nostalgic. And honestly, put a gun to my head, and I'd rather have Bure on my team - and that probably means more than I give it credit for sometimes, but I try to post with my head and not my gut. Keep up the good work.

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06-20-2013, 07:32 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by unknown33 View Post
Unimaginable that a 20 year old got left off their squad.
They also left off St. Louis and Richards. And Crosby/Staal/Spezza in 2006. What I would take from it is that the National Team isn't always the best indicator of who's the best player. It feels like they picked a team for 2009, which is something that would have specifically hurt Stamkos.

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06-20-2013, 11:56 AM
  #108
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I dunno, to me the national team selection, especially for a nation as deep as Canada, is a pretty good indication of player's value. Not that they don't make some odd choices sometimes (Rob Zamuner?).

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06-20-2013, 12:17 PM
  #109
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Well I'd really question that, since you brought up freakin Rob Zamuner making the Canadian team in 1998 and especially since you used it in direct comparison comparison to Bure and Selanne making the Russian and Finnish national teams, and since Stamkos is an ironlock for next year's team now.

And in general it's just such a brain dead thing to do in comparison with anything else. Why would you discount a guy like Stamkos who has 4 consecutive seasons in the top 5 in scoring and top 2 in goals having turned 23 in February? Your argument can't simply boil down to the Olympic thing, and if so it's one of the worst arguments we've seen on HoH. What about Stamkos makes you think he's not even on Kariya's level?

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06-22-2013, 06:26 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Ishdul View Post
Well I'd really question that, since you brought up freakin Rob Zamuner making the Canadian team in 1998 and especially since you used it in direct comparison comparison to Bure and Selanne making the Russian and Finnish national teams, and since Stamkos is an ironlock for next year's team now.

And in general it's just such a brain dead thing to do in comparison with anything else. Why would you discount a guy like Stamkos who has 4 consecutive seasons in the top 5 in scoring and top 2 in goals having turned 23 in February? Your argument can't simply boil down to the Olympic thing, and if so it's one of the worst arguments we've seen on HoH. What about Stamkos makes you think he's not even on Kariya's level?
I don't think he is on Kariya's level. Kariya dragged his team into playoffs with supporting cast weaker and division stronger than Stamkos's. Kariya was an extremely special player, instantly recognizable. Stamkos can pile up all the goals he can, but both the eye test and the team's record tell me Kariya was better.

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