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06-16-2013, 05:00 PM
  #151
timlap
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I think you can certainly argue that Weiss has had the better career so far.But what direction are their careers headed in? I have my doubts about anyone who purports to know for sure on that one. It seems worth considering that Bozak may be on the upswing and Weiss is headed downhill.

But it's a gamble either way.

Honestly, both seem like decent but not amazing centres for our first line. I expect "decent but not amazing" is our best option for now.

Kadri may turn out better than either.

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06-16-2013, 05:04 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by thatshype View Post
Been discussed quite a bit already. The "interest" is no secret, but how many dollars the interest is worth would still be newsworthy. Most Leafs fans would welcome Weiss openly, but we certainly don't want him overpaid.


In fact, the similarities between signing Weiss and the Tim Connolly signing is pretty striking. I think that's allowed us to be wary about signing him.

this - so we get ourselves into a GOOD cap situation & then we screw it up by signing a player who has been injury prone the last wee while?

It's a gamble we shouldn't attempt, plus he's ANOTHER small centre.

Sign Clarkson, cut bait w/ Bozak. Kadri/Grabbo = top 2 centres.

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06-16-2013, 05:23 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by The Mad Dalton View Post
this - so we get ourselves into a GOOD cap situation & then we screw it up by signing a player who has been injury prone the last wee while?

It's a gamble we shouldn't attempt, plus he's ANOTHER small centre.

Sign Clarkson, cut bait w/ Bozak. Kadri/Grabbo = top 2 centres.
I'm fine with this too.

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06-16-2013, 05:29 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by The Mad Dalton View Post
this - so we get ourselves into a GOOD cap situation & then we screw it up by signing a player who has been injury prone the last wee while?

It's a gamble we shouldn't attempt, plus he's ANOTHER small centre.

Sign Clarkson, cut bait w/ Bozak. Kadri/Grabbo = top 2 centres.
Did you hate the Lupul trade for the same reason?

I love the "buy low" gambles. If Weiss had put up 60 points he'd get 6 million or more most likey, in this case we could potentially get a 6 million dollar player for quite a bit less. It's just money and in no way did the Connolly signing hamper our team in any way.

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06-16-2013, 05:30 PM
  #155
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Do not want Weiss on this team, same ppg then Grabovski yet everybody want the later off the team ? Lets try to get that big two way center like Backes or Hanzal.

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06-16-2013, 05:31 PM
  #156
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I personally don't see the simulates between signing Weiss as compared to Connolly. Everyone warned against Connolly especially Buffalo fans stated time and time again because of his laziness and non compete levels. Weiss is a competitive player who works hard and is better then his numbers suggest. I wouldn't be willing to go out and over pay to get him but if you don't sign Bozak and you don't fill the massive hole left by his departure then your in trouble.

Unless it is another top 7 draft pick some of you are looking for again.

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06-16-2013, 05:45 PM
  #157
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Weiss will put up 70+ points centering Kessel. Mark my words.

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06-16-2013, 05:52 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Mikeyg View Post
franson will never be a top pair with dion thats a terrible idea. His foot speed is exposed constantly when playing top lines, some1like sid or stamkos would eat him alive. He will be playing 2nd/3rd pair, you cant have that dion franson pair, it DOES NOT work
Franson skating is improving. He also moves the puck a lot better than Gunnarsson. Seeing that has Phaneuf has decent foot speed, Franson should be fine. During the playoffs, Franson was being used against the top pairing and it was the quicker Gardiner who gift wrapped the OT winner.

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06-16-2013, 05:54 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Face Of Bear View Post
Signing Weiss is just begging for our team to remain mediocre for the next 5 years. No team is going to win a cup with Weiss as their numbers one center. No team is going to win the cup when your top 3 centers are as small and weak as Kadri, Weiss, and Grabovski.

Just because the ideal center isnt available right now, doesnt mean we have to lock ourselves into a bad contract with Weiss. Weiss is nothing more then another bandaid to the wound this organization has had since Sundin left. He is just another Stajan/Bozak/Connolly, except he is going to get the most lucrative contract of the 3, and we will end up regretting him the most.
Well said. It's not like our top line is in trouble. We really need to get those other lines up to playoff standards. If we want to take the Chicago route, if we can groom Colborne to be like Handzus, we'd be a lot more stronger down the middle. I would try signing Bickell in order to strengthen Kadri's line as well.

The idea that Weiss will probably 70pts is redundant. We're still going to have two other lines that cannot perform well during the playoffs. If someone like Weiss can produce that without Kessel, I'd consider it. More so, he's not signing for the same salary as Bozak.


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06-16-2013, 06:14 PM
  #160
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Well we get a better playmaker if we are signing weiss but I don't expect an overpayment. If we do so...it would be a foolish move. I know people were comparing Weiss to grabo, both are very different and weiss is somewhat lacking his defensive game at times.

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06-16-2013, 06:17 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by The Apologist View Post
Bozak was a 50 pt guy this year.
The rest are all assumptions
You fought only one of my 6 points and were still wrong, Bozak technically was on pace for 49.9 pts, but it is YOU making an assumption that he would hit 50 pts in the remaining games.

In addition, that is while playing with Kessel and JVR/Lupul, It is the Cheechoo syndrome, that what happens when you play with star players, it raises your points above what you bring to the table.

I feel like I was complimenting Bozak by calling him a 40-50 point player. Playing on any team, in a reasonable role for his skill, those would be impressive numbers.

Meanwhile, Weiss has proven he can hit 60 points and be a 50-60 point player with playmaking skills on the lowly Panthers with little supporting staff.

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06-16-2013, 06:26 PM
  #162
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I'm ok with signing Weiss if its a reasonably low cap hit (and it could be) because he's been injured alot and he hasn't been producing due to his injuries.

His trade-value is at an ALL-TIME LOW, if we could sign him to a hometown discount with a decent cap hit I'm all for it.

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06-16-2013, 06:27 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
Basically Weiss is Bozak except slightly better defensively and quite a bit better playmaker.
He is exactly the same except different.

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06-16-2013, 06:33 PM
  #164
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Ideally, if we go after Weiss, it's to replace Bozak and will carry an identical cap hit to Tim Connolly's $4.75 million. Essentially upgrading bozak for "free" and our cap situation getting about $2 million better.

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06-16-2013, 06:40 PM
  #165
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Weiss isn't better than Bozak defensively. I don't understand where this idea that even comes from, because both are mediocre. If we want strong two-way guys that can produce in all cases, let's look at Benn, Duchene, Giroux, Toews. Unfortunately, we're never going to acquire such stars. These are the type of guys we need especially when Kessel is an offensive guy.

Let's remember that the Penguins stacked with two elite/ possession monsters and yet got swept. In other words, the idea that greater output from our top line is going to take us further is ridiculous. We already have Grabovski who can produce 60 points with scrubs so let's just use him. Afterwards, we can trade him for some blue chipper or picks.

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06-16-2013, 06:56 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by The_Chosen_One View Post
Weiss isn't better than Bozak defensively. I don't understand where this idea that even comes from, because both are mediocre. If we want strong two-way guys that can produce in all cases, let's look at Benn, Duchene, Giroux, Toews. Unfortunately, we're never going to acquire such stars. These are the type of guys we need especially when Kessel is an offensive guy.

Let's remember that the Penguins stacked with two elite/ possession monsters and yet got swept. In other words, the idea that greater output from our top line is going to take us further is ridiculous. We already have Grabovski who can produce 60 points with scrubs so let's just use him. Afterwards, we can trade him for some blue chipper or picks.
You have obviously never seen Stephen Weiss play, his biggest strength is his play in the defensive zone. If it weren't for the fact that he played in Florida, he likely would have recieved some attention as a selke candidate the past few seasons.

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06-16-2013, 07:03 PM
  #167
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You fought only one of my 6 points and were still wrong, Bozak technically was on pace for 49.9 pts, but it is YOU making an assumption that he would hit 50 pts in the remaining games.
You can only go off what the numbers state. And if your looking over a 82 game schedule then you have to use whats avail to you. I doubt if he didn't reach 50 points it would have been that far off the pace. In all likely hood he probably would have exceeded it. But we will never know, and can only go on the averages.


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In addition, that is while playing with Kessel and JVR/Lupul, It is the Cheechoo syndrome, that what happens when you play with star players, it raises your points above what you bring to the table.
Wow so was Lupul considered a star when Toronto got him? JVR would never have been traded if he was considered a star. Point I am trying to make is Bozak brings more to the table then JC brought. If Bozak isn't getting points hes still doing other things, good face off man, speed responsible defensively. Hell Cheecho didn't even have a great shot. When he wasn't scoring he wasn't worth squat.

Quote:
I feel like I was complimenting Bozak by calling him a 40-50 point player. Playing on any team, in a reasonable role for his skill, those would be impressive numbers.
and what do 40-50 point centers who play good defense, can be penciled into any part of the lineup up or down. Good defensively and a good face off guy get on the open market? He's more complete then Grabo and he got 5.5 on his last contract.

Quote:
Meanwhile, Weiss has proven he can hit 60 points and be a 50-60 point player with play making skills on the lowly Panthers with little supporting staff.
Weiss has proven he can hit 60 points, he's a fantastic player who I still think can be a 70+ point player. Thing is like you pointed out the team and system they play not a lot of room for him to really open up. (Just so you know I want Weiss on Toronto) but if you want to look at Bozak from a glass half empty point of view then look at Weiss in the same light as some one has to score the points and that team didn't have a lot of options. But like i said I think Weiss is a good player and someone who can help Toronto for a few years. Bozak is the same and I would rather he stays then goes, I would prefer about 3 million for Bozak but in all likely hood he's gonna get paid.

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06-16-2013, 07:21 PM
  #168
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There is no glass half empty on Bozak or not, he is NOT a 1C, he is NOT a 2C, he is BARELY a 3C, Not great defensively, or else other center not named Nazim wouldn't pick up his slack defensively. The only good thing that people kept muttering about Bozak this season was "look at his faceoff %". Well he got exposed in the playoffs, and the only thing he was useful on the 1st line, he sucked at.

So when people are saying we prolong mediocrity, this will happen if Bozak is re-signed. Weiss is a nice, safe option for a couple of years, that can not only manage on our 1st line, but actually make it better.

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06-16-2013, 07:28 PM
  #169
TheLeastOfTheBunch
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Meh, I am hoping for Stastny.

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06-16-2013, 07:30 PM
  #170
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Everyone here doesn't want to sign a center and either don't sign bozak or buyout/trade Grabovski.

Kadri
Bozak/Grabovski
Colborne
Mcclement
?

Ya it looks all good and stuff... Until someone goes down. We need more depth! Sign Weiss and leave kadri getting a PPG on the third line. Problems? None.

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06-16-2013, 07:32 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Solution:

Trade Grabovski for the rights to Stephen Weiss and then re-sign him to the money presently being paid Grabs.

That way you add a top 6 player and your cap hit consequences remain static and unchanged, but you have upgraded your team in the process of doing so.

With Weiss and Kadri now occupying the top 2 center ice roles, Nonis would have flexibility in negotiating with Bozak as you're now looking to fill the number #3 C hole, and the remuneration being offered for that position would be more in line with what Bozak provides and brings to the table.

If Bozak is not willing to accept then letting him walk with Weiss already secured is a lower risk move for the Leafs, that could potentially be filled with Colborne as Plan B.
Surely Nonis has an idea of what Grabo is worth, he may be realizing it is not easy moving him with teams still in it for a UFA such as Bozak or Weiss.

Ideally you want something as opposed to nothing, I see Grabo as a salary swap with another team, are there 5.5 D men out there that need a change of scenery?

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06-16-2013, 07:33 PM
  #172
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Like anything else, depends on the price.

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06-16-2013, 07:37 PM
  #173
The_Chosen_One
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Originally Posted by Scion View Post
You have obviously never seen Stephen Weiss play, his biggest strength is his play in the defensive zone. If it weren't for the fact that he played in Florida, he likely would have recieved some attention as a selke candidate the past few seasons.
I have, and you're overstating his defence. Unlike Weiss, Grabovski has been used against the top lines. He didn't do a great job, but he's a much better two-way player and younger to boot. Weiss was producing his 60 points with much more insulated minutes.

I don't think we need another peripheral player signed to a ridiculous contract. Besides, the idea that this superstar Weiss is going to be signing at Bozak money is hilarious. Let that scrub remain at that barely functional franchise. We need to be a lot more patient and try to acquire someone strengthen the middle.

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06-16-2013, 07:39 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Meh, I am hoping for Stastny.
I'd rather have him over Weiss instead. He actually plays quite well in traffic and could be a force multiplier. However, we really need a strong two-way guy (like Duchene) that could perform under playoffs conditions.

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06-16-2013, 07:40 PM
  #175
Schennsation
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Meh, I am hoping for Stastny.
As am I

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