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Flames offer all three first rounders to Avalanche

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Old
06-16-2013, 07:04 PM
  #176
McVespa99
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This kind of surprises me. Calgary has 0 depth on their team or in the organization. I would think they would need to shoot for 3 good players over one great one. And hope to get lucky.

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06-16-2013, 07:06 PM
  #177
The Ultimate Warrior
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
I'd probably take that deal from a Jets perspective. Depending if management really feels they can get a similar player at #22.

#13

for

#22 and #28.

It would give Winnipeg picks 22, 28, 43, 59 (comp), 60/61, 74 and 90/91 in the first 3 rounds. That's a lot of picks to possibly move around during the draft.
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Originally Posted by iFan View Post
I completely agree, if Flames walked out of this draft with Monahan and Horvat, I'd be pretty jealous, that seems like a smarter move than trading 3 1st for the 1st overall.
1. If Bo Horvat was still on board, I would make that trade with Winnipeg for sure.

2. Agreed! Monahan and Horvat are "do anything it takes to win" kinda guys. They are who you'd want out on the ice with one minute left protecting the lead. Big, smart, 2 way forwards with leadership qualities.

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06-16-2013, 07:06 PM
  #178
Method Man
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Originally Posted by vespa99 View Post
This kind of surprises me. Calgary has 0 depth on their team or in the organization. I would think they would need to shoot for 3 good players over one great one. And hope to get lucky.
they need both depth and a star. it was a win-win for the Flames. They took a shot to get a potential franchise player, instead the keep the chance to get depth.

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06-16-2013, 07:31 PM
  #179
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I don't get the criticisms here. It is much harder to acquire elite talent then it is to acquire organizational depth. Sure, there is always the chance that all three picks develop into good to great assets but why waste an opportunity to land a Tavares type prospect to build your team around?

Jay Feaster would not be doing his job if he did not at least look into the prospect of adding Nathan Mackinnon.

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06-16-2013, 07:41 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
I honestly think this would be a good move for the Avalanche...maybe I'm in the minority.
This offer is obcene. I'm a die hard Flames fan and it's insulting to Flames fans.
If Feaster actually did this, he's a FOOL!!!!!!
Not to mention it being approved by Weisbrod, King, Edwards, Etc. IMHO It is the dumbest thing since, well.........the last things they did

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06-16-2013, 07:46 PM
  #181
Aceboogie
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Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
I don't get the criticisms here. It is much harder to acquire elite talent then it is to acquire organizational depth. Sure, there is always the chance that all three picks develop into good to great assets but why waste an opportunity to land a Tavares type prospect to build your team around?

Jay Feaster would not be doing his job if he did not at least look into the prospect of adding Nathan Mackinnon.
Agreed, every FA period there are 5-6 guys that are as good as the 22 and 28th pick will become (not the exceptions like Ebs, Patches and Giroux). They are attainable (even if they are a bit overpaid) But guys like Stamkos, Tavares, Ovy etc will probaly never see FA or traded, and even if they are traded, your getting great assets back. (Kovy and Nash were both dealt tho)

and even tho Lindholm/Monahan look like good prosects at six. History shows that alot of guys drafted 7-12 dont make significant impacts at all

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06-16-2013, 07:47 PM
  #182
Kevin8se7en
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Just for reference purposes...

6th Overall + 22nd Overall + 28th Overall
1st Overall

2004:
Al Montoya + Lukas Kaspar + Marc Fistric
Alex Ovechkin

2005:
Gilbert Brule + Matt Lashoff + Matt Niskanen
Sidney Crosby

2006:
Derrick Brassard + Claude Giroux + Nick Foligno
Erik Johnson

2007:
Sam Gagner + Max Pacioretty + Nick Petrecki
Pat Kane

2008:
Nikita Filatov + Jordan Eberle + Viktor Tikhonov
Steven Stamkos

2009:
Oliver Ekman-Larsson + Jordan Schroeder + Dylan Olsen
John Tavares

2010:
Brett Connolly + Jared Tinordi + Charlie Coyle
Taylor Hall

2011:
Mika Zibanejad + Stefan Noesen + Zach Phillips
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins

2012:
Hampus Lindholm + Olli Maata + Brady Skjei
Nail Yakupov

If I'm Calgary, I'd offer this same thing. Getting another Iginla is more important than one good player and 2 risks.


Last edited by Kevin8se7en: 06-16-2013 at 07:56 PM.
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Old
06-16-2013, 08:01 PM
  #183
Zirakzigil
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I have a feeling this will get done and it will involve Gio, Tanguay and the picks. Sven or Brodie wont happen.

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06-16-2013, 08:07 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zirakzigil View Post
I have a feeling this will get done and it will involve Gio, Tanguay and the picks. Sven or Brodie wont happen.
Funny, if so, I have a feeling it won't happen.

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Old
06-16-2013, 08:09 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zirakzigil View Post
I have a feeling this will get done and it will involve Gio, Tanguay and the picks. Sven or Brodie wont happen.
None of those things make me want to move the first overall. Think Forsberg-Lindros trade type returns. It won't happen with 3 picks, an over the hill winger, and a mediocre defenseman. Quality>Quantity. Absolutely no reason to trade the #1 overall for that grab bag.

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06-16-2013, 08:13 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by tucker3434 View Post
None of those things make me want to move the first overall. Think Forsberg-Lindros trade type returns. It won't happen with 3 picks, an over the hill winger, and a mediocre defenseman. Quality>Quantity. Absolutely no reason to trade the #1 overall for that grab bag.
Giordano would be a top pairing defender on the Avalanche with ease. If you don't like the offer that is fine, but I don't see the need for you to degrade a very good player in the process.


Mark Giordano ( top three defender )
Alex Tanguay ( 2nd line LW )
6th Overall
22nd Overall
28th Overall

All of that to move up five spots? No thanks.

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Old
06-16-2013, 08:19 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
Giordano would be a top pairing defender on the Avalanche with ease. If you don't like the offer that is fine, but I don't see the need for you to degrade a very good player in the process.


Mark Giordano ( top three defender )
Alex Tanguay ( 2nd line LW )
6th Overall
22nd Overall
28th Overall

All of that to move up five spots? No thanks.
Our defensive situation is so bad that this statement would cover about 75% of defenseman in the league. It makes it that much more necessary that we draft a stud on D (jones). Giordono is okay. A 29 year old defenseman that is only okay just doesn't interest me.

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06-16-2013, 08:20 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by tucker3434 View Post
Our defensive situation is so bad that this statement would cover about 75% of defenseman in the league. It makes it that much more necessary that we draft a stud on D (jones). Giordono is okay. A 29 year old defenseman that is only okay just doesn't interest me.
Giordano is ok the same way Erik Johnson is just alright.

It doesn't make sense for either teams no need to continue to downgrade Gio.

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Old
06-16-2013, 08:47 PM
  #189
tucker3434
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Giordano is ok the same way Erik Johnson is just alright.

It doesn't make sense for either teams no need to continue to downgrade Gio.
I don't care how you want to evaluate him. We aren't trading the first overall for 2 guys that are 29+ (especially when they aren't elite) and picks. It will take baertschi and picks +.

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Old
06-16-2013, 09:13 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
Hmm. Interesting move by the Flames. I think in their case what with their thin prospect pool they may be better off keeping all their first rounders. They could still get elite talent in the 6th spot, there will be some pretty damn good players available. On the flip side, Colorado would likely be better off keeping their 1st too.
Esp. considering how deep this year's draft is. The Flames could end up drafting the next Richards/Carter/Getzlaf/Perry/Giroux with the late picks.

And lol at people mentioning Baertschi's name. Not going to happen.

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06-16-2013, 09:27 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by tucker3434 View Post
I don't care how you want to evaluate him. We aren't trading the first overall for 2 guys that are 29+ (especially when they aren't elite) and picks. It will take baertschi and picks +.
That's fine I understand your reasoning my point was there is no need to mock Gio because you guys want Jones more than almost anything.

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06-16-2013, 09:47 PM
  #192
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In 1998 , Pierre Lacroix had a trade pretty similar to what the Flames just offered. Lacroix wanted Lecavalier really bad and was willing to trade his 4 first round choices in return of Vinny . Of course , Tampa said no right away .

the Avs later took with the choices ...

1998 Entry 12 1 Alex Tanguay
1998 Entry 17 1 Martin Skoula
1998 Entry 19 1 Robyn Regehr
1998 Entry 20 1 Scott Parker

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06-16-2013, 09:50 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Frenchy View Post
In 1998 , Pierre Lacroix had a trade pretty similar to what the Flames just offered. Lacroix wanted Lecavalier really bad and was willing to trade his 4 first round choices in return of Vinny . Of course , Tampa said no right away .

1998 Entry 12 1 Alex Tanguay
1998 Entry 17 1 Martin Skoula
1998 Entry 19 1 Robyn Regehr
1998 Entry 20 1 Scott Parker
Considering non of them are in the top 10, it's a pretty easy decision

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06-16-2013, 10:09 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by reign of fire View Post
This offer is obcene. I'm a die hard Flames fan and it's insulting to Flames fans.
If Feaster actually did this, he's a FOOL!!!!!!
Not to mention it being approved by Weisbrod, King, Edwards, Etc. IMHO It is the dumbest thing since, well.........the last things they did
This would be great move by Calgary

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06-16-2013, 10:22 PM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zirakzigil View Post
I have a feeling this will get done and it will involve Gio, Tanguay and the picks. Sven or Brodie wont happen.
Maybe this will squash your "feeling":

https://twitter.com/RogMillions/stat...54984788561920

*For some reason my computer won't copy/paste the actual Tweet so that I can put it in quotes...but just click the link*

He goes on to say that it's likely Sven they asked for on top of the 3 1st round picks.

Adrian Dater, Avs beat writer, also commented on this story, saying that there is still quite a bit of hatred on the Avs side towards the Flames for the O'Reilly Offer Sheet. Whether that hatred is justified or not, it's there, and I see no way the Avs would deal the Flames the #1 pick without a disgusting overpayment...so I think it's best just to continue operating under the belief that your Flames will be picking #6.

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06-16-2013, 11:06 PM
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
I don't get the criticisms here. It is much harder to acquire elite talent then it is to acquire organizational depth. Sure, there is always the chance that all three picks develop into good to great assets but why waste an opportunity to land a Tavares type prospect to build your team around?

Jay Feaster would not be doing his job if he did not at least look into the prospect of adding Nathan Mackinnon.
I understand where you're coming from but if the comparisons to the 2003 draft are even remotely close to being true then I would take my chances with the three 1st rounders. Calgary owns picks 6, 22, and 28. Players drafted at those spots in 2003 were Milan Mchalek, Marc-Antoine Pouliot, and Corey Perry, respectively. Pick 28 was the best of the bunch and players that were still on the board when those picks occurred included Getzlaf, Parise, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, Kesler, Eriksson and then some other great players down in the mid/latter parts of the 2nd round.

Theoretically, that year you would be talking about Eric Staal vs three of any of those players. If you could even get two players of that level that is much better than building around Eric Staal. It's possible to get quantity of quality this draft.

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06-16-2013, 11:29 PM
  #197
Zirakzigil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
Maybe this will squash your "feeling":

https://twitter.com/RogMillions/stat...54984788561920

*For some reason my computer won't copy/paste the actual Tweet so that I can put it in quotes...but just click the link*

He goes on to say that it's likely Sven they asked for on top of the 3 1st round picks.

Adrian Dater, Avs beat writer, also commented on this story, saying that there is still quite a bit of hatred on the Avs side towards the Flames for the O'Reilly Offer Sheet. Whether that hatred is justified or not, it's there, and I see no way the Avs would deal the Flames the #1 pick without a disgusting overpayment...so I think it's best just to continue operating under the belief that your Flames will be picking #6.
All this means is that they are talking. Of course the Avs are going to ask for Sven, thats part of trade negotiations. As for the offer sheet, its business. If the Avs have the opportunity to make their team better, they will do it.

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Old
06-16-2013, 11:42 PM
  #198
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The funny thing is I think that's a bad deal for where the Flames are at! They have a chance to grab 3 solid young prospects in a deep draft for their weak pool.
I'd rather get one star player than three solid prospects.

You can get depth players in the lower rounds, on the trade market, or through free agency; however, you don't get guys like MacKinnon or Jones in today's NHL unless you draft them. It's almost a certainty that neither of those players will ever leave the teams that pick them on June 30.

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Old
06-16-2013, 11:57 PM
  #199
Method Man
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There is still almost 2 weeks until the draft. There will be a ton of posturing before the draft to try and increase the value of the 1st overall pick if it is indeed on the table.

Who knows what offers will come in before the draft, doesn't make sense to agree to anything now on the Avs end.

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06-16-2013, 11:59 PM
  #200
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If Calgary think Colorado have too high demands they can always try to talk to Florida. MacKinnon will still be on the board at #2.

I suspect Calgary will find that Florida probably would have the same asking price as Colorado has.

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