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06-16-2013, 05:28 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
I'm pretty sure we'll end up passing because we don't acquire the rights to players and the cost will also be too high. Let's just bring up Sheahan and let him develop into our 2nd line center. Then you have Andersson as your #3. Trade with the Preds to get Gaustad and we are set with three big, defensive centers who can get to the scoring areas of the ice. Weiss is nice but I don't see us winning a battle for his rights. Just my opinion.
Our 2nd line center???

He put up 36 pts in 72 games in the AHL. Not exactly screaming top 6 NHL center.

I like Sheahan, but at this point if be bring him up I think it should be for the bottom 6. Until his offense develops some more

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06-16-2013, 06:03 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Gaustad's contract is brutal. 3.25 million for a fourth liner, that is an easy pass, ideally you would pay your entire fourth line maybe a little less than that or at that figure.
Yeah, I had forgotten they signed him to such a terrible contract. Maybe they will buy him out!

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06-16-2013, 06:04 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
and Filppula's statistics have been underwhelming every single year of his career other than one

give me Weiss any day over him,it's not even close as far as i'm concerned
Wiess' career year ended with 61 points like 6 years ago. Filppula's last full season he scored 66 points, and that was recent. Weiss has been on the decline ever since his 60 point season.

Weiss was on pace to scoring 3 goals this year, Filppula scored 9 goals and 17 points playing on recently sprained MCL.

Filppula is the better player.

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06-16-2013, 06:05 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Our 2nd line center???

He put up 36 pts in 72 games in the AHL. Not exactly screaming top 6 NHL center.

I like Sheahan, but at this point if be bring him up I think it should be for the bottom 6. Until his offense develops some more
That's a very sober and reasonable take. I simply don't see Holland doing anything along the lines of acquiring a true top 6 guy like Weiss. It could happen if he hits free agency I am skeptical we'll trade for his rights.

This past season I was pushing for a youth movement. I like what I saw and I want to keep the youth movement going. If Pavs and Z are going to win another Cup it is going to be because our top prospects are pushing their way up the food chain. If Filppula is truly gone then Sheahan becomes the next guy you groom to fit that #2 center spot.

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06-16-2013, 06:10 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Wiess' career year ended with 61 points like 6 years ago. Filppula's last full season he scored 66 points, and that was recent. Weiss has been on the decline ever since his 60 point season.

Weiss was on pace to scoring 3 goals this year, Filppula scored 9 goals and 17 points playing on recently sprained MCL.

Filppula is the better player.
seriously?

1: it was more like 4 years ago
2: he scored 60 points the year after he scored 61....
3: the year Filppula scored 66 Weiss had 57 which is still pretty good(the years Weiss had 61 and 60 Filppula had 40 and 35....)

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06-16-2013, 06:11 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
That's a very sober and reasonable take. I simply don't see Holland doing anything along the lines of acquiring a true top 6 guy like Weiss. It could happen if he hits free agency I am skeptical we'll trade for his rights.

This past season I was pushing for a youth movement. I like what I saw and I want to keep the youth movement going. If Pavs and Z are going to win another Cup it is going to be because our top prospects are pushing their way up the food chain. If Filppula is truly gone then Sheahan becomes the next guy you groom to fit that #2 center spot.
I've always been one to push for the youth movement, especially when you have guys with obvious high-end offensive talent like Nyquist be a PPG player in the AHL for 100 games for no reason.

But just because we want Sheahan to become a 2nd line center, doesn't mean he will. And he has maybe shown glimpses, but not enough to where he could step up and definitely do a good job.

Assume they pull him up all year and we get basically a season with Shawn Matthias as our 2nd line center all year. Doesn't really sound too appealing.

If we want to call guys up then put them in positions to succeed.

If you want to try a prospect as a 2nd line center then give Jarnkrok a look. If you want to bring up a guy to put in the top 6 as a winger then go with Jurco. If you want a 3rd liner that can PK and play ES then bring up either Sheahan or Ferraro.

That's a smart way to manage the roster IMO. I think Sheahan as the 2C might not be a great fit with where he is as a pro right now.

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06-16-2013, 06:21 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Wiess' career year ended with 61 points like 6 years ago. Filppula's last full season he scored 66 points, and that was recent. Weiss has been on the decline ever since his 60 point season.

Weiss was on pace to scoring 3 goals this year, Filppula scored 9 goals and 17 points playing on recently sprained MCL.

Filppula is the better player.
You're really really cherry picking stats.

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06-16-2013, 06:36 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
You're really really cherry picking stats.
umm buddy, alex ovechkin was also clearly just a 60pt player you know based on stats

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06-16-2013, 06:53 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
umm buddy, alex ovechkin was also clearly just a 60pt player you know based on stats
And Darren Helm was on pace for 0 points. And Mikael Samuelsson was on pace for 0 goals and a minus-36.

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06-16-2013, 07:48 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
I've always been one to push for the youth movement, especially when you have guys with obvious high-end offensive talent like Nyquist be a PPG player in the AHL for 100 games for no reason.

But just because we want Sheahan to become a 2nd line center, doesn't mean he will. And he has maybe shown glimpses, but not enough to where he could step up and definitely do a good job.

Assume they pull him up all year and we get basically a season with Shawn Matthias as our 2nd line center all year. Doesn't really sound too appealing.

If we want to call guys up then put them in positions to succeed.

If you want to try a prospect as a 2nd line center then give Jarnkrok a look. If you want to bring up a guy to put in the top 6 as a winger then go with Jurco. If you want a 3rd liner that can PK and play ES then bring up either Sheahan or Ferraro.

That's a smart way to manage the roster IMO. I think Sheahan as the 2C might not be a great fit with where he is as a pro right now.
In my opinion the most likely outcome is for Holland to sign Filppula to a new deal. I am a Filppula fan but I don't believe he's a second line center. That forces you to split up Z and Pavs. I don't see Mule as a long term center.

No one thought Andersson would be as good as he was this season. Sheahan has Filppula's defensive game. Give him Mule and Jurco as linemates and get the party started.

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06-16-2013, 08:04 PM
  #61
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Sheanan is a long way away from a 2C position in the NHL. He's an okay 2C is the AHL, but not great.

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06-16-2013, 08:08 PM
  #62
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With all of this talk of Filppula v. Weiss, I'm surprised no one has brought up the most important difference between them yet:



Filppula
29 years old
32 teeth



Weiss
30 years old
30-31 teeth

Anything we gain in offensive ability with Weiss will be more than offset by what we will lose in terms of our team's total number of teeth.

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06-16-2013, 08:11 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
In my opinion the most likely outcome is for Holland to sign Filppula to a new deal. I am a Filppula fan but I don't believe he's a second line center. That forces you to split up Z and Pavs. I don't see Mule as a long term center.

No one thought Andersson would be as good as he was this season. Sheahan has Filppula's defensive game. Give him Mule and Jurco as linemates and get the party started.
If I was going to go for a youth movement line-up/roster I'd go for something like this.

Assuming Filppula walks, Brunner re-signs, and Cleary walks and no free agents are brought in...

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Brunner
Nyquist-Jarnkrok-Franzen
Abdelkader-Helm/Andersson-Tatar
Miller-Andersson/Emmerton-Eaves/Ferraro

Kronwall-Ericsson
Smith-Dekeyser
Kindl-Jensen

gives us two rightys for the PP on the point with Jensen and Jarnkrok.

I actually really like the look of that team myself

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06-16-2013, 08:16 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snailderby View Post
With all of this talk of Filppula v. Weiss, I'm surprised no one has brought up the most important difference between them yet:



Filppula
29 years old
32 teeth



Weiss
30 years old
30-31 teeth

Anything we gain in offensive ability with Weiss will be more than offset by what we will lose in terms of our team's total number of teeth.
Isn't that the goal-scorer's gap??


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06-16-2013, 08:19 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Chris 84 View Post
weiss has generally been a #1C
filppula has often been a 3rd liner and rarely if ever a top line PP guy. they've had different roles for their teams and filppula's numbers are going to suffer for that. last 2 years he has outperformed weiss though, statistically.
Flipper hasn't been a third liner in years now. Hardly a valid talking point.

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06-16-2013, 08:23 PM
  #66
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I'd take him. He's the one FA I'd be really excited to land.

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06-16-2013, 08:32 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
If I was going to go for a youth movement line-up/roster I'd go for something like this.

Assuming Filppula walks, Brunner re-signs, and Cleary walks and no free agents are brought in...

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Brunner
Nyquist-Jarnkrok-Franzen
Abdelkader-Helm/Andersson-Tatar
Miller-Andersson/Emmerton-Eaves/Ferraro

Kronwall-Ericsson
Smith-Dekeyser
Kindl-Jensen

gives us two rightys for the PP on the point with Jensen and Jarnkrok.

I actually really like the look of that team myself
I am a Jarnkrok fan but he's struggled at the AHL level and could use some seasoning. Both Jurco and Sheahan have been playoff performers.

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06-16-2013, 09:09 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
I am a Jarnkrok fan but he's struggled at the AHL level and could use some seasoning. Both Jurco and Sheahan have been playoff performers.
I think he (Jarnkrok) just needs some strength improvement and then some time to get adjusted to the North American style of play. Kind of similar to Brunner in that regard. If he trains hard this summer and puts on weight I could see him making some buzz in camp this fall.

Jurco and Sheahan have both performed well in the playoffs, I agree, but Jurco projects as a better fit for a scoring line as a pro. His offensive skill set is much better than Sheahan's and in a couple years when Jurco matures more physically he could really light it up.

I just haven't seen that much from Sheahan yet to say I think you could plug him into Detroit's top 6 and roll with it. As of April Babcock himself said he thinks Sheahan needs to develop his game more, so I'm not alone on that. I think he could be a good bottom 6 player in the league right now with his size and defensive game though.

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06-16-2013, 10:06 PM
  #69
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Franzen - Datsyuk - Abdelkader
Samuelsson - Zetterberg - Cleary
Brunner - Weiss - Nyquist
Eaves - Helm (Emmerton) - Miller

Is that what we would see?

Poor Z. Still poor Datsyuk.

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06-16-2013, 10:31 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
seriously?

1: it was more like 4 years ago
2: he scored 60 points the year after he scored 61....
3: the year Filppula scored 66 Weiss had 57 which is still pretty good(the years Weiss had 61 and 60 Filppula had 40 and 35....)
So Filppula scored Weiss by 9 points and is a year younger. Gotcha.

I'll take Filppula, he's the better player right now. Weiss was good 4 years ago, Filppula is the better player (and goal scorer) now.

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06-16-2013, 10:49 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
I think he (Jarnkrok) just needs some strength improvement and then some time to get adjusted to the North American style of play. Kind of similar to Brunner in that regard. If he trains hard this summer and puts on weight I could see him making some buzz in camp this fall.
In this scenario I'd have Sheahan centering Jurco. Just my opinion.
Jurco and Sheahan have both performed well in the playoffs, I agree, but Jurco projects as a better fit for a scoring line as a pro. His offensive skill set is much better than Sheahan's and in a couple years when Jurco matures more physically he could really light it up.

I just haven't seen that much from Sheahan yet to say I think you could plug him into Detroit's top 6 and roll with it. As of April Babcock himself said he thinks Sheahan needs to develop his game more, so I'm not alone on that. I think he could be a good bottom 6 player in the league right now with his size and defensive game though.
In this scenario I'd have Sheahan centering Jurco. Just my opinion.

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06-16-2013, 11:09 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
I am a Jarnkrok fan but he's struggled at the AHL level and could use some seasoning. Both Jurco and Sheahan have been playoff performers.
How exactly did you come to the conclusion that Jarnkrok struggled at the AHL level?

1. He played 9 games. Most players take longer than 9 games to adjust to North American hockey.

2. He was actually pretty damn good in those 9 games. He was probably the best center on the team during those 9 games.

It makes me wonder if you watched him play.

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06-16-2013, 11:12 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
In this scenario I'd have Sheahan centering Jurco. Just my opinion.
Okay, I can see we're going in circles a little here.

Let me ask you a different question.

Let's say we went with your proposed 2nd line (Franzen, Sheahan, Jurco) from opening night next year to the end of the season.

What kind of numbers do you think they would put up? How do you think they would fare?

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06-16-2013, 11:19 PM
  #74
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I think the problem he had is he wasn't familiar with the system (ironhook). I don't think he did bad at all. After a full training camp plus 40-60 games in the ahl it would not surprise me at all to see ironhook get a call up if a top 6'r goes down on the wings.

Granted I may be biased but, he seems as of right now to be the only top 6 center (pray for top 3 but in all likelyhood he is a second liner at this point but he has plenty of time to change that) potential in the system atm. If ferraro gets the offense going and keeps it up at the next level he could as well but atm andersson and sheahan to me only look like tweener centers atm.

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06-16-2013, 11:29 PM
  #75
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Weiss is a highly skilled center. I would love to see him in a Wings uniform, but he is not the answer to all the Wings' problems. The Wings still need to get bigger, and at 5' 11', 190 lbs., Weiss has only average to slightly below average size.

The Wings still need to add somebody like Iginla or Horton.

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