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Old
06-17-2013, 01:56 AM
  #1
Ched Brosky
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Canucks-flyers

If Philly does indeed buyout bryz how about this?

To Philly:
Luongo
24th pick

To Van:
11th pick
41st pick

Or

To Philly:
Schneider

To Van:
Couturier
41st pick
71st pick

I'm a huge Schneider fan half way through his 1st ahl season I said within 5 years he'd steal Lou's job and he's proved me right, but at this point unless we can get something like this for Lou where we move up in the draft or get a solid prospect, I'd rather just move Schneider for a huge return as Lou is still a top 10 goalie without taking contracts into account. We then have lack cannata and Ericsson who we can develop into a solid goalie.


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06-17-2013, 01:58 AM
  #2
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I don't see Philly trading for Luongo and no to the 2nd deal, Schneider isn't being traded

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06-17-2013, 01:58 AM
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Philly would say no. Luongo's value isn't/wasn't high enough to get 2 2nds which would be around the same value as moving from 24 to 11.

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06-17-2013, 01:59 AM
  #4
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The Flyers should consider a new line of business if they trade for Luongo after shedding Bryzgalov's contract, because clearly hockey decisions aren't working out for them

Couturier, 41st, and 71st is a massive overpayment for Schneider. Goalies just aren't worth that much.

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06-17-2013, 02:03 AM
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Don't see why Philly would do either. Schneider for Couturier 1-for-1, maybe, but even that seems unlikely to me.

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06-17-2013, 02:12 AM
  #6
Ched Brosky
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The Flyers should consider a new line of business if they trade for Luongo after shedding Bryzgalov's contract, because clearly hockey decisions aren't working out for them

Couturier, 41st, and 71st is a massive overpayment for Schneider. Goalies just aren't worth that much.
Honestly I think hf over values couturier based on the potential he could one day reach. He could become a kesler/j.staal/Bergeron but he could also top out as a b.sutter which is still pretty good. Right now he is a 30 point shut down center.

Schneider right now is a top 10 goalie and could become a top 5 goalie

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06-17-2013, 02:14 AM
  #7
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Honestly I think hf over values couturier based on the potential he could one day reach. He could become a kesler/j.staal/Bergeron but he could also top out as a b.sutter which is still pretty good. Right now he is a 30 point shut down center.

Schneider right now is a top 10 goalie and could become a top 5 goalie
Right now, sure. He's also only 20 years old, given no chance to do anything offensively by his coach, and is still years away from his prime. On top of that he's already one of the top defensive centers in the league, and likely only going to get better.

Schneider hasn't done enough to prove he's worth more than Couturier to the Flyers, especially since the Flyers' defensive play would be absolutely horrific without him.

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06-17-2013, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The Flyers should consider a new line of business if they trade for Luongo after shedding Bryzgalov's contract, because clearly hockey decisions aren't working out for them

Couturier, 41st, and 71st is a massive overpayment for Schneider. Goalies just aren't worth that much.
I disagree with Schneoders value, TSN reported before the draft the Blue Jackets were going to ofer up the 1st overall for Schneider. Schneider has a lot of value and so do other high end younger goalies like Quick, Price and Rask and Couturier isn't worth any of those goalies, it really blows my mind how overrated/valued flyer fans rate him, saying things like you wouldn't trade Couturier for Edler! And now this, its crazy talk.

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06-17-2013, 02:19 AM
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Right now, sure. He's also only 20 years old, given no chance to do anything offensively by his coach, and is still years away from his prime. On top of that he's already one of the top defensive centers in the league, and likely only going to get better.

Schneider hasn't done enough to prove he's worth more than Couturier to the Flyers, especially since the Flyers' defensive play would be absolutely horrific without him.
Fair enough I think couturier will top out just a notch below kesler. So a Jordan staal which is a 45-50 point selke caliber center.

Would couturier and the flyers 3rd for schneids work?

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06-17-2013, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Right now, sure. He's also only 20 years old, given no chance to do anything offensively by his coach, and is still years away from his prime. On top of that he's already one of the top defensive centers in the league, and likely only going to get better.

Schneider hasn't done enough to prove he's worth more than Couturier to the Flyers, especially since the Flyers' defensive play would be absolutely horrific without him.
Couturier hasn't done anything to show he's worth more than Schneider or Schneider alone... Schneider chased the starting role away from Luongo! Not many goalies could do that given Luongo is one of the best goalies in the league.

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06-17-2013, 02:26 AM
  #11
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Fair enough I think couturier will top out just a notch below kesler. So a Jordan staal which is a 45-50 point selke caliber center.

Would couturier and the flyers 3rd for schneids work?
I still wouldn't do it. You need a center like Couturier to win a Cup just as much as you need quality goaltending and a solid #1 Dman. We already have that center, I think it's better to keep him than risk him in a trade for a goalie. The Flyers shouldn't be in "win-now" mode, if they're being realistic. I don't think it's urgent or beneficial for them to make this trade.

Now...Read, we could do business on.

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Couturier hasn't done anything to show he's worth more than Schneider or Schneider alone... Schneider chased the starting role away from Luongo! Not many goalies could do that given Luongo is one of the best goalies in the league.
How many major roster pieces have been traded for young goalies recently? It doesn't really happen, and Couturier is a major component for the Flyers. Varlamov was far more proven than Schneider and he netted two firsts...a good return, but not roster players. Why should Schneider get more?

Bobrovsky had more games played and showed ridiculous amounts of potential, and garnered far less return.

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06-17-2013, 02:38 AM
  #12
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I still wouldn't do it. You need a center like Couturier to win a Cup just as much as you need quality goaltending and a solid #1 Dman. We already have that center, I think it's better to keep him than risk him in a trade for a goalie. The Flyers shouldn't be in "win-now" mode, if they're being realistic. I don't think it's urgent or beneficial for them to make this trade.

Now...Read, we could do business on.



How many major roster pieces have been traded for young goalies recently? It doesn't really happen, and Couturier is a major component for the Flyers. Varlamov was far more proven than Schneider and he netted two firsts...a good return, but not roster players. Why should Schneider get more?

Bobrovsky had more games played and showed ridiculous amounts of potential, and garnered far less return.
No Varlamov wasn't more proven than Schneider is now and Varlamov was their back up plan if they couldn't land Schneider, they traded for the 11th overall in hopes they could use it to get Schneider, which Gillis wasn't moving Schneider at that time, how many high end younger goalies get moved? Ask LA what it would take to get Quick or Habs fans the cost for Price or Bruin fans about Rask, you rarely see this talent goalies moved, if you think you can get an elite level goalie for cheap then your kidding yourself and will be stuck with these project goalies. You talk about centers like Couturier who you need to win a cup? Well look at the goaltending for the last few cup winners... I wouldn't move Schneider for Couturier, that's a stupid move for Vancouver, why trade your star starter for a fox on your 3rd line center? That's just crazy, never will happen.

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06-17-2013, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I still wouldn't do it. You need a center like Couturier to win a Cup just as much as you need quality goaltending and a solid #1 Dman. We already have that center, I think it's better to keep him than risk him in a trade for a goalie. The Flyers shouldn't be in "win-now" mode, if they're being realistic. I don't think it's urgent or beneficial for them to make this trade.
You have similar centers coming up if I remember correctly like Scott Laughton and Nick Cousins (probably not as good though).

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Now...Read, we could do business on.
Not enough value. For Bernier, maybe but for Schneider? Hell no.

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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
How many major roster pieces have been traded for young goalies recently? It doesn't really happen, and Couturier is a major component for the Flyers. Varlamov was far more proven than Schneider and he netted two firsts...a good return, but not roster players. Why should Schneider get more?
Varlamov was not more proven than Schneider, you can look up the games played for Varlamov with the capitals yourself. He was a backup goalie then, Schneider is a starter.

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Bobrovsky had more games played and showed ridiculous amounts of potential, and garnered far less return.
Schneiders stats are WAY better right now than Bobrovsky's were when he was traded, and Bobrovsky was outplayed in the playoffs by Brian Boucher....

Schneider for Couturier is fair. A starting goaltender for a 30 point center with potential to be as good as Bergeron or Kesler.

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06-17-2013, 02:43 AM
  #14
Ched Brosky
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I still wouldn't do it. You need a center like Couturier to win a Cup just as much as you need quality goaltending and a solid #1 Dman. We already have that center, I think it's better to keep him than risk him in a trade for a goalie. The Flyers shouldn't be in "win-now" mode, if they're being realistic. I don't think it's urgent or beneficial for them to make this trade.

Now...Read, we could do business on.



How many major roster pieces have been traded for young goalies recently? It doesn't really happen, and Couturier is a major component for the Flyers. Varlamov was far more proven than Schneider and he netted two firsts...a good return, but not roster players. Why should Schneider get more?

Bobrovsky had more games played and showed ridiculous amounts of potential, and garnered far less return.
Varlamov/his agent were holding Washington hostage when he was traded saying he is either guaranteed the #1 role and is paid accordingly or he bolts to the khl. On top of that Schneider is much more proven now compared to varlamov then. Add in that varly had no contract and Schneider is signed for 3 more years at a manageable 4M, Schneider has much higher value than varly then.

Bob c'mon ur a flyers fan. He had a good rookie season and then regressed a considerable amount. Steve mason/Andrew raycroft bad. How can a guy be proven when he goes from the top of the low end of starters in his rookie year to an adequate backup the next season? No one in their wildest dreams expected bob to do what he did this season. Schneider now is a gazillion times more proven then bob was last season. Bob was the exact opposite of being proven and is the definition of gambling on potential and for once when it comes to goalies who regress in the past decade, it worked out better than even howson would have ever imagined... So far


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06-17-2013, 02:58 AM
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I disagree with Schneoders value, TSN reported before the draft the Blue Jackets were going to ofer up the 1st overall for Schneider. Schneider has a lot of value and so do other high end younger goalies like Quick, Price and Rask and Couturier isn't worth any of those goalies, it really blows my mind how overrated/valued flyer fans rate him, saying things like you wouldn't trade Couturier for Edler! And now this, its crazy talk.
then quit ASKING for him. EVERY trade involving the Flyers has Couturier in it. DID the FLYERS post this trade? NO. We dont want Schneider or Luongo OR Edler for that matter. Close this thread.

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06-17-2013, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I still wouldn't do it. You need a center like Couturier to win a Cup just as much as you need quality goaltending and a solid #1 Dman. We already have that center, I think it's better to keep him than risk him in a trade for a goalie. The Flyers shouldn't be in "win-now" mode, if they're being realistic. I don't think it's urgent or beneficial for them to make this trade.

Now...Read, we could do business on.



How many major roster pieces have been traded for young goalies recently? It doesn't really happen, and Couturier is a major component for the Flyers. Varlamov was far more proven than Schneider and he netted two firsts...a good return, but not roster players. Why should Schneider get more?

Bobrovsky had more games played and showed ridiculous amounts of potential, and garnered far less return.
Because he's better technically, and no less athletic? This seems to be a much overlooked aspect of trades, but interested teams will scout a player and use their opinions of his talent to decide how much they're willing to trade for him, not just read his stats sheet.

Varlamov also didn't return two 1sts; he returned the 11th and 54th overall picks in a weak draft. He was also pushed out of his starting role, not under contract and was contemplating leaving the NHL for Russia. He was coming off of a 27 game season and was being talked about as a potential injury risk due to repeated groin injuries. He had also only played 59 games in the NHL. There are many reasons why Schneider would return more.

You say Couturier is a major component for the Flyers, well Schneider is viewed similarly by the Canucks. You can have Luongo for a 2nd round pick if you want though.

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06-17-2013, 03:06 AM
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then quit ASKING for him. EVERY trade involving the Flyers has Couturier in it. DID the FLYERS post this trade? NO. We dont want Schneider or Luongo OR Edler for that matter. Close this thread.
You don't want Schneider or Edler? Ok.

It's not like your team missed the playoffs because of having a crappy goalie or crappy defense or something..........

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06-17-2013, 03:19 AM
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You don't want Schneider or Edler? Ok.

It's not like your team missed the playoffs because of having a crappy goalie or crappy defense or something..........
awwww little Nucks fan getting so defensive... good for you. You say Couturier is overrated but yet you guys ask for him in every trade. Schneider, who is actually VERY overrated is not asked for by Flyers fans. Every Canucks thread has you guys trying to trade Edler (wonder why) or Lou/Schneider. Flyers arent trading Couturier. So everyone needs to quit asking for him. And quite honestly, Id rather miss the playoffs than get completely embarrassed in the first round 0-4. GG

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06-17-2013, 03:28 AM
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I disagree with Schneoders value, TSN reported before the draft the Blue Jackets were going to ofer up the 1st overall for Schneider. Schneider has a lot of value and so do other high end younger goalies like Quick, Price and Rask and Couturier isn't worth any of those goalies, it really blows my mind how overrated/valued flyer fans rate him, saying things like you wouldn't trade Couturier for Edler! And now this, its crazy talk.
It's really not. A lot of us see potential in this kid. Potential that he can become the most complete player in the league. He's already elite defensively. Even if he only becomes a 40-50 point producer, he will be one our most valuable players. So excuse us if we don't want to trade a very young player who has a very bright future in front of him. We've had to endure enough frustration watching guys like Patrick Sharp and Sergei Bobrovsky breakout after being dealt from our team. Watching Couts go on to be a Selke caliber center in 4-5 years from now would just be another kick in the nuts. If you don't see the potential in him, that's your problem.

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06-17-2013, 03:34 AM
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awwww little Nucks fan getting so defensive... good for you. You say Couturier is overrated but yet you guys ask for him in every trade. Schneider, who is actually VERY overrated is not asked for by Flyers fans. Every Canucks thread has you guys trying to trade Edler (wonder why) or Lou/Schneider. Flyers arent trading Couturier. So everyone needs to quit asking for him. And quite honestly, Id rather miss the playoffs than get completely embarrassed in the first round 0-4. GG
At least we have defence then.... You're becoming a bit defensive now arn't you? Couturier is fairly overrated, we ask for him because we need a third line centreman. It's fairly obvious that you are a pre-teen that clearly knows nothing about any other teams needs.

You don't know why we want to trade Edler (I do not, unless we get fair value) He is an asset that we have an excess of. Please tell me how bad he is, Is it his 22pts in 45 games? Is it the fact that he made an allstar team already? Is it that he's a #1 defencemen that ironically your team needs? Hmmm.. Again with Lu and Schneider, They are both assets that we are able to deal. Also ironic how your team is looking for a goalie (if they get rid of Bryz). Flyers probably wont trade Couts, however this is a trade forum. People have opinions. Deal with it. You'll learn that as soon as you grow up.

Also to say that you'd "rather miss the playoffs, than make them and get bounced in the first round" is laughable. Truthfully, tell me. How excited were you as a Flyers fan to have such a good team on paper and fail so miserably. Yeah, that's what I thought. I still think to myself "how on earth did the Flyers do so bad" . But hey, that's just my opinion.

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06-17-2013, 03:59 AM
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At least we have defence then.... You're becoming a bit defensive now arn't you? Couturier is fairly overrated, we ask for him because we need a third line centreman. It's fairly obvious that you are a pre-teen that clearly knows nothing about any other teams needs.

You don't know why we want to trade Edler (I do not, unless we get fair value) He is an asset that we have an excess of. Please tell me how bad he is, Is it his 22pts in 45 games? Is it the fact that he made an allstar team already? Is it that he's a #1 defencemen that ironically your team needs? Hmmm.. Again with Lu and Schneider, They are both assets that we are able to deal. Also ironic how your team is looking for a goalie (if they get rid of Bryz). Flyers probably wont trade Couts, however this is a trade forum. People have opinions. Deal with it. You'll learn that as soon as you grow up.

Also to say that you'd "rather miss the playoffs, than make them and get bounced in the first round" is laughable. Truthfully, tell me. How excited were you as a Flyers fan to have such a good team on paper and fail so miserably. Yeah, that's what I thought. I still think to myself "how on earth did the Flyers do so bad" . But hey, that's just my opinion.
Im not the "preteen". You ask for Couturier, we say no. Then you go on about how overrated he is and talk about how many points he put up. Thats what twelve year olds do. Dont get what you want so then you rip the player and act like you never wanted him in the first place. Again, I want Lou nor Schneider anywhere near the Flyers. Flyers had a bad year in a lockout season, boohoo. I like my team through thick and thin. And yes, I would easily much rather miss the playoffs than get embarrassed in the first round like Vancouver did. You finished the same place as the Flyers, last, just like everyone else who didnt win the cup. Have a good day

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06-17-2013, 04:27 AM
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The Flyers should consider a new line of business if they trade for Luongo after shedding Bryzgalov's contract, because clearly hockey decisions aren't working out for them

Couturier, 41st, and 71st is a massive overpayment for Schneider. Goalies just aren't worth that much.
Common misconception is common, even mods fall for it.

Toskala got a 1st, 2nd, 4th
Vokoun got a 1st, 2 2nds
Mike Smith was an essential part of a deal for Brad Richards (at the time, an allstar)

Recent trades:
Lindback for 2 2nds, and a 3rd
Bishop for Conacher
Varlamov for a 1st, and a 2nd (1st ended up being top 10)

Schneider has way more value now than Varlamov then (not a Russian factor, not an injury risk, consistency). If Anders Lindback, a relatively unknown goalie received late first round value in picks, there's no doubt in my mind that Schneider would command at least a high first round pick (top 10) and a second round pick. Couts is worth nothing more than a top 10 pick, so that trade is not a massive overpayment, it's about approximate value for a potential franchise goalie. Couts is so overrated on this board it's ridiculous. Nice try though,

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06-17-2013, 04:44 AM
  #23
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I still wouldn't do it. You need a center like Couturier to win a Cup just as much as you need quality goaltending and a solid #1 Dman. We already have that center, I think it's better to keep him than risk him in a trade for a goalie. The Flyers shouldn't be in "win-now" mode, if they're being realistic. I don't think it's urgent or beneficial for them to make this trade.

Now...Read, we could do business on.



How many major roster pieces have been traded for young goalies recently? It doesn't really happen, and Couturier is a major component for the Flyers. Varlamov was far more proven than Schneider and he netted two firsts...a good return, but not roster players. Why should Schneider get more?

Bobrovsky had more games played and showed ridiculous amounts of potential, and garnered far less return.
???

Wrong again.

Varlamov started only 53 games in his 3 year span with the Capitals before he got traded. He had an average of .917 save percentage within this time period. He was also rumored to be going to the KHL if he did and the Capitals did not agree on a contract, and was constantly injured, and did not show consistency.

Schneider has started 86 games so far in his tenure with the Nucks, an average of .927 save percentage (10 points higher than Varly, difference between elite and average). Schneider has a better playoff save percentage, albeit less games so we can call that a wash. Schneids has played and started significantly more games, with a significantly higher save percentage, co-lead the league in shutouts this year and 4th in save percentage for all goalies this year.

*Interesting note, Schneids 5 shutouts was ONLY in 30 games, by far the lowest starts, and pro-rates to about 11 shutouts in 65 games.

Schneider has shown potential that Varlamov will never reach.

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06-17-2013, 04:52 AM
  #24
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Im not the "preteen". You ask for Couturier, we say no. Then you go on about how overrated he is and talk about how many points he put up. Thats what twelve year olds do. Dont get what you want so then you rip the player and act like you never wanted him in the first place. Again, I want Lou nor Schneider anywhere near the Flyers. Flyers had a bad year in a lockout season, boohoo. I like my team through thick and thin. And yes, I would easily much rather miss the playoffs than get embarrassed in the first round like Vancouver did. You finished the same place as the Flyers, last, just like everyone else who didnt win the cup. Have a good day
1st part: Wrong once again, I did no such thing.

2nd part: Keep telling yourself that. Your team got embarrased the whole year. Please.

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06-17-2013, 05:01 AM
  #25
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Luongos best chance of getting traded is to a cap floor team. Nobody wants that horrendous contract.

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