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Subban (Norris Winner)

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Old
06-17-2013, 04:32 PM
  #51
Domino11
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It like saying huberdeau Calder doesn't count or even Boston or Chicago Stanley cup doesn't count since it a short season .... Loll find an other excuse my friend !!

Subban as the same value as karlsson , doughty , weber , pietrangelo .... If someone want subban then that the price for him !!

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06-17-2013, 04:35 PM
  #52
Revansky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
How is he more than a PP specialist? He had 12 ESP this year...

Karlsson had 9...in 17 games
Understand your perception if you're only looking at his point's stats. His defensive game has been solid and he's creating a lot at 5 vs 5 but I can conceive that you may interpret his stats that way.

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06-17-2013, 04:39 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Revansky View Post
Understand your perception if you're only looking at his point's stats. His defensive game has been solid and he's creating a lot at 5 vs 5 but I can conceive that you may interpret his stats that way.
To be fair, I'm being 100% facetious, Subban is certainly worth significantly more than what I offered in jest.

I said that because, one; the OP is clearly just looking for people to compliment Subban: 0% chance Montreal or its fans want to trade him, and two; to silence some Montreal fans who have recently been trying to say Subban's year was comparable to Karlsson's dominant season last year by quoting advanced stats terribly out of context.

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06-17-2013, 04:39 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
How is he more than a PP specialist? He had 12 ESP this year...

Karlsson had 9...in 17 games
And the dog would have caught the rabbit if it hadn't stopped to take a dump...so what?...PK's value is far more than just points...otherwise between Mike Green and Kris Letang they'd have a handful of Norris trophies, instead of none...PK haters gotta at least take the blinders off and realize he's a top Dman in the NHL...deal with it.

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06-17-2013, 04:43 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
And the dog would have caught the rabbit if it hadn't stopped to take a dump...so what?...PK's value is far more than just points...otherwise between Mike Green and Kris Letang they'd have a handful of Norris trophies, instead of none...PK haters gotta at least take the blinders off and realize he's a top Dman in the NHL...deal with it.
I have no problem saying that Subban is a top defenseman in the NHL.

I have a significant problem with Montreal fans (because those are the only fans who say such a thing) who say that Subban is the top defenseman in the NHL.

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06-17-2013, 04:43 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
To be fair, I'm being 100% facetious, Subban is certainly worth significantly more than what I offered in jest.

I said that because, one; the OP is clearly just looking for people to compliment Subban: 0% chance Montreal or its fans want to trade him, and two; to silence some Montreal fans who have recently been trying to say Subban's year was comparable to Karlsson's dominant season last year by quoting advanced stats terribly out of context.
its better, because he knows what his own end of the ice looks like...EK would need a hi my name is tag to recognize his goalie and defence partner.



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06-17-2013, 04:46 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
its better, because he knows what his own end of the ice looks like...EK would need a hi my name is tag to recognize his goalie and defence partner.



Subban recognizes his goalie and defense partner alright, he just doesn't recognize most first line forwards in the league because he never gets to see them.



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06-17-2013, 04:47 PM
  #58
danisonfire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
I have no problem saying that Subban is a top defenseman in the NHL.

I have a significant problem with Montreal fans (because those are the only fans who say such a thing) who say that Subban is the top defenseman in the NHL.
Why because it has to be karlsson? Opinions are just that, opinions. Everyone doesn't have to think the same.

For the record, in my opinion neither Subban or Karlsson are the "top" defenseman in the NHL. If others think differently, good for them!

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06-17-2013, 04:47 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
I have no problem saying that Subban is a top defenseman in the NHL.

I have a significant problem with Montreal fans (because those are the only fans who say such a thing) who say that Subban is the top defenseman in the NHL.
Yes he is a top dman....but for this regular season, no matter what is said as everyone had the same short season, he is the top dman. Just like EK was last year. But I agree some here get a bit trollish. I do a little to certain "advanced stats" types, for fun.

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06-17-2013, 04:47 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
I have a significant problem with Montreal fans (because those are the only fans who say such a thing) who say that Subban is the top defenseman in the NHL.
Why??...this year, he was...just like last year, Karlsson was...do you, as a Sens fan, not remember the 180 days of "Karlsson's the best since..." threads last year??...let the Habs fans have their fun with it...

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06-17-2013, 04:48 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
Subban recognizes his goalie and defense partner alright, he just doesn't recognize most first line forwards in the league because he never gets to see them.


That's not true....he collects hockey cards he keeps them in the same cabinet as his Norris trophy....sorry had to

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06-17-2013, 04:49 PM
  #62
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I wanted the Canucks to trade a 1st + Bieksa for him last year (when PK was holding out)...not sure what would get him this year...basically he's untouchable.

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06-17-2013, 04:49 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danisonfire View Post
Why because it has to be karlsson? Opinions are just that, opinions. Everyone doesn't have to think the same.

For the record, in my opinion neither Subban or Karlsson are the "top" defenseman in the NHL. If others think differently, good for them!
Everyone has opinions, but not all opinions are valid.

Just as someone may be of the opinion that Subban shouldn't even belong in the NHL because his defensive abilities are too poor; it's an opinion, but it's a wrong opinion.

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06-17-2013, 04:50 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
Why??...this year, he was...just like last year, Karlsson was...do you, as a Sens fan, not remember the 180 days of "Karlsson's the best since..." threads last year??...let the Habs fans have their fun with it...
I actually think Subban deserved the Norris this year, but I wouldn't have minded it going to Suter either.

Subban was also very good in the playoffs.

But to say he's better than Karlsson - as many Habs fans are doing - is just not an accurate statement at this time.

One of the best in the league: but not the best.

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06-17-2013, 04:52 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
I actually think Subban deserved the Norris this year, but I wouldn't have minded it going to Suter either.

Subban was also very good in the playoffs.

But to say he's better than Karlsson - as many Habs fans are doing - is just not an accurate statement at this time.

One of the best in the league: but not the best.
To be fair, it was this year. EK was injured, and he wasn't the same. An offseason will do wonders, but he was a shadow of last years version.

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06-17-2013, 04:53 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
To be fair, it was this year. EK was injured, and he wasn't the same. An offseason will do wonders, but he was a shadow of last years version.
Post-injury? Absolutely agree, and Subban dominated him in the playoffs because he clearly wasn't at 100%.

But before the injury, he was the best defenseman I have seen in my lifetime - granted only for 14 games.

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06-17-2013, 04:54 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
I actually think Subban deserved the Norris this year, but I wouldn't have minded it going to Suter either.

Subban was also very good in the playoffs.

But to say he's better than Karlsson - as many Habs fans are doing - is just not an accurate statement at this time.

One of the best in the league: but not the best.
And to say Karlsson's better than Subban is not an accurate statement in my opinion, just as it's reversed in your opinion...in 15 years time, we'll both know for sure...until then, it's opinion.

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06-17-2013, 04:56 PM
  #68
Sureves
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
And to say Karlsson's better than Subban is not an accurate statement in my opinion, just as it's reversed in your opinion...in 15 years time, we'll bot know for sure...until then, it's opinion.
If you say so. In that case my opinion is that Methot is a better defenseman than Subban.

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06-17-2013, 04:56 PM
  #69
danisonfire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
Everyone has opinions, but not all opinions are valid.

Just as someone may be of the opinion that Subban shouldn't even belong in the NHL because his defensive abilities are too poor; it's an opinion, but it's a wrong opinion.
It is hard to write off the opinion "subban is not the best defenseman" as a farce, when he just won the trophy for it.

It is easier to attack the defensive abilities stance as being a farce.

Once again, don't think Subban is the best, but that opinion for 2013 would not be that outlandish.

Perhaps you value things differently than they do, I know I do as well.

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06-17-2013, 04:57 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
Post-injury? Absolutely agree, and Subban dominated him in the playoffs because he clearly wasn't at 100%.

But before the injury, he was the best defenseman I have seen in my lifetime - granted only for 14 games.
EK was good to start, but I have seen much much greazter dmen...but I am also likely much older too.

Also, just like you (likely) I would not trade my guy straight up for yours...but that takes nothing away from either

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06-17-2013, 04:57 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
If you say so. In that case my opinion is that Methot is a better defenseman than Subban.
Which is your opinion, which you are entitled to...of course, it also means you're on heavy meds, but that's another story...

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06-17-2013, 04:58 PM
  #72
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His value is whatever you want it to be, because only a crazy GM would trade a norris winner.

Can't wait to see his new contract though, it'll be Sweeeeeet!

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06-17-2013, 05:07 PM
  #73
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With the kind of contract you'd want for Subban, I'd trade a decent amount.

For the $8M AAV contract he's going to get, not a whole lot

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06-17-2013, 05:07 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
I'm thinking more Wiercioch and a 1st. PP specialist for PP specialist.

Wiercioch got 6.26 points per 60 on PP, Subban got 6.73.

Wiercioch got 0.90 points per 60 at ES, Subban got 0.96.
Cody Franson and a 1st for Karlsson

Career ES scoring:
Cody Franson: 1.20 per 60
Erik Karlsson: 1.16 per 60

Career PP scoring
Cody Franson: 3.80 per 60
Erik Karlsson: 3.85 per 60


These two are obviously entirely equivalent because they have the same scoring rates. Cody Franson is obviously the league's most potent 5 on 5 offensive defenseman edging out Karlsson and Dustin Byfuglien.


Or maybe its stupid to rely entirely on ES points to measure offense for defensemen.

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06-17-2013, 05:18 PM
  #75
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Karlsson and Suter are the only defensemen in the league that would make a straight up 1-on-1 trade for Subban something to be considered. Anyone else and it's a definite downgrade.

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