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Old
06-17-2013, 10:14 PM
  #26
MarleauApologist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeHabsMan View Post
You mean like being nominated for the Hart?
In the same year his own fans voted Nabokov team MVP right?

If he wa 33 and had not been drafted first overall in 2009 with a lot of hype behind him, he would not have been nominated.

For me, not taking health/contract/age into consideration

Centers:

Crosby
Malkin
Datsyuk
Giroux
Backstrom
Spezza
Stamkos
Kopitar
Toews
Bergeron

Wingers:

Ovechkin
MSL
Kane
Kovalchuk
Hall
Kessel
Hossa
Zetterberg
Eriksson
Marleau

Defenseman:

Karlsson
Chara
Weber
Suter
Doughty
Pietrangelo
Keith
OEL
Letang
Subban

Goalie:

Quick
Lundqvist
Rinne
Bobrovsky
Niemi
Rask
Lehtonen
Miller
Luongo
Anderson

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Old
06-17-2013, 10:21 PM
  #27
ds4130
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Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
I'm solidly on the record as being ridiculously critical of Rick Nash. I hated the trade when it was rumored, hated it more when it happened, and hated what it did to the team this year. That said, Taylor Hall has a LONG way to go before he's even in the conversation with guys like Nash. That's not a knock on Hall. He's 21 years old, and he has plenty of time to get there. He's not there yet.

I am highly amused at the complete absence of Marian Gaborik, however. Yes, he had a bit of a down year (not even a bad year. Just a down one). He still has two 40+ goal seasons in the last 4 years. Bumping him out of the top 5 because of this year? Okay, I see that. Consistently bumping him out of the top ten? That's just absurd.
The bolded is a completely ignorant statement. Taylor Hall scored 8 more points in 1 more game played this year. I know that's not saying much and I know stats aren't everything, I'll be the first to tell you that but Hall runs the offense in Edmonton and to say he's a LONG way before he's in conversation with guys like Nash is absolute garbage.

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Old
06-17-2013, 10:22 PM
  #28
Jester9881
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
In the same year his own fans voted Nabokov team MVP right?

If he wa 33 and had not been drafted first overall in 2009 with a lot of hype behind him, he would not have been nominated.
So you won't include Tavares because he's young and hasn't proven anything.... but you include Hall, Karlsson, OEL and Pieterangelo?

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Old
06-17-2013, 10:32 PM
  #29
hersky77
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
D:

Weber
Gardiner
Karlsson
Subban
Keith
Pie
Doughty
Letang
Suter
OEL
The jake gardiner on the toronto maple leafs. Better then PK Subban and Erik Karlsson.

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Old
06-17-2013, 10:35 PM
  #30
smoneil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ds4130 View Post
The bolded is a completely ignorant statement. Taylor Hall scored 8 more points in 1 more game played this year. I know that's not saying much and I know stats aren't everything, I'll be the first to tell you that but Hall runs the offense in Edmonton and to say he's a LONG way before he's in conversation with guys like Nash is absolute garbage.
Hall put up more assists this year (Nash outscored him).

8 points, all from assists, in one season. Because of this, you laughed at the idea that Nash would be ranked higher than Hall in a top ten winger list.

Ahem:

-Taylor Hall has never had a 30 goal season. Nash has had 7 of them.

-Taylor Hall's career high in points is 53. Nash has 8 seasons with 54 or more points. Five of those 8 seasons were over 60 points, and one was one point shy of 80 points.

I would expect that a day will eventually come when Taylor Hall is easily ranked over a guy like Nash (as I said, I really don't like Nash as a player, and Hall has had an excellent start to what is a VERY young career). To scoff at it today? I'm not the one being ignorant here. 8 more assists or not, you really have nothing to base an argument on here.

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Old
06-17-2013, 10:39 PM
  #31
pdd
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In no order...
Centers
Crosby
Zetterberg
Malkin
Datsyuk
Toews
Stamkos
Getzlaf
Kopitar
Bergeron
Thornton

Wingers
Ovechkin
St. Louis
Kane
Hossa
Hall
Kessel
Elias
Nash
Ladd
Dupuis

Defensemen
Karlsson
Suter
Chara
OEL
Weber
Pietrangelo
Subban
Letang
Keith
Doughty

Goaltenders
Lundqvist
Quick
Howard
Bobrovsky
Rask
Niemi
Crawford
Vokoun
Rinne
Anderson

Top five coaches:
Babcock
MacLean
Sutter
Julien
Quenneville

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Old
06-17-2013, 10:44 PM
  #32
ds4130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
Hall put up more assists this year (Nash outscored him).

8 points, all from assists, in one season. Because of this, you laughed at the idea that Nash would be ranked higher than Hall in a top ten winger list.

Ahem:

-Taylor Hall has never had a 30 goal season. Nash has had 7 of them.

-Taylor Hall's career high in points is 53. Nash has 8 seasons with 54 or more points. Five of those 8 seasons were over 60 points, and one was one point shy of 80 points.

I would expect that a day will eventually come when Taylor Hall is easily ranked over a guy like Nash (as I said, I really don't like Nash as a player, and Hall has had an excellent start to what is a VERY young career). To scoff at it today? I'm not the one being ignorant here. 8 more assists or not, you really have nothing to base an argument on here.
Look, I'm not trying to start an argument, but I did not laugh at the idea that Nash is ranked higher on lists. To be completely honest, I'd probably take Nash on my team for the upcoming season at least. I just think it's a huge knock on Hall to say he's a LONG way from being in conversation with Nash.

Taylor Hall has currently played 171 NHL games and scored 145 points which is .84 PPG. Rick Nash has played 718 NHL games and put up 589 points which is .82 PPG. While it is more impressive that Nash sustained that number for a much greater number of games, I honestly don't see Hall's numbers getting worse.

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Old
06-17-2013, 10:46 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
So you won't include Tavares because he's young and hasn't proven anything.... but you include Hall, Karlsson, OEL and Pieterangelo?
Tavares was 10th in points among centers and played every game with 47 in 48. So he barely squeaks in on total offense; let's hope nobody has a better PPG. Oops, Malkin had 33 in 31; I guess that pushes Tavares out.

Tavares also brings nothing but his offense to the table. There are guys not far behind him (Kopitar, Thornton) who bring a physical game and a defensive game.

And then there's Bergeron, who was down at 32 (in 42) but is also arguably the league's best defensive forward and is the league's best faceoff man.

I don't really see a top-ten spot for Tavares. Top-15, maybe. But not top-ten.

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Old
06-17-2013, 10:50 PM
  #34
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Lol at Hall over Kessel on some people's lists. Hall is getting hyped way too Much for one good year.

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Old
06-17-2013, 10:50 PM
  #35
smoneil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ds4130 View Post
Look, I'm not trying to start an argument, but I did not laugh at the idea that Nash is ranked higher on lists. To be completely honest, I'd probably take Nash on my team for the upcoming season at least. I just think it's a huge knock on Hall to say he's a LONG way from being in conversation with Nash.

Taylor Hall has currently played 171 NHL games and scored 145 points which is .84 PPG. Rick Nash has played 718 NHL games and put up 589 points which is .82 PPG. While it is more impressive that Nash sustained that number for a much greater number of games, I honestly don't see Hall's numbers getting worse.

That's just it though-- Hall needs to improve on his numbers and do so consistently. Nash has played 10 NHL seasons. 8 of those seasons have been better than the best that Hall has shown us. For Hall to be mentioned in the same category with guys like Nash, he needs to up his game and do so for a few seasons. He's 21. I would be surprised if he didn't do just that. Today, in 2013, he really can't be considered to be close to players like Nash, though (in the ranking sense, not in the skill sense). That's all I'm saying.


Last edited by smoneil: 06-17-2013 at 10:51 PM. Reason: Edited final bit for clarification
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Old
06-17-2013, 10:52 PM
  #36
MAK19
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Centres:

Crosby
Malkin
Toews
Stamkos
Datsyuk
Tavares
Staal
Getzlaf
Kopitar
Zetterberg
(Sedin)



Wingers:

Ovechkin
Kane
St. Louis
Nash
Kessel
Hall
Parise
Perry
Sedin
Voracek
(Vanek)



Defensemen:

Karlsson
Chara
Weber
Doughty
Keith
Subban
Pietrangelo
Ekman-Larsson
McDonagh
Suter
(Letang)



Goalies:

Lundqvist
Rask
Quick
Anderson
Bobrovsky
Rinne
Niemi
Crawford
Price
Howard
(Holtby)

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Old
06-17-2013, 10:58 PM
  #37
Jester9881
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Tavares was 10th in points among centers and played every game with 47 in 48. So he barely squeaks in on total offense; let's hope nobody has a better PPG. Oops, Malkin had 33 in 31; I guess that pushes Tavares out.

Tavares also brings nothing but his offense to the table. There are guys not far behind him (Kopitar, Thornton) who bring a physical game and a defensive game.

And then there's Bergeron, who was down at 32 (in 42) but is also arguably the league's best defensive forward and is the league's best faceoff man.

I don't really see a top-ten spot for Tavares. Top-15, maybe. But not top-ten.
Tavares was on pace to score 50 goals if this was an 82 game season. For a guy that had 50 assists last year, don't you wonder why he had so few? You have guys listed that he still out scored this year despite that, and still outscored them last year too.

I'll repeat what I said in another thread.... I can't wait until the olympics. Because he's going to shut all you haters up pretty quick. That's going to be the only way too.... because it's painfully obvious you're never going to actually watch the kid more than a handful of times any other way.

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Old
06-17-2013, 10:59 PM
  #38
Alivesi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
Center:

1. Sidney Crosby
2. Evgeni Malkin
3. Pavel Datsyuk
4. Steven Stamkos
5. John Tavares
6. Claude Giroux
7. Anze Kopitar
8. Ryan Getzlaf
9. Jonathan Toews
10. Henrik Sedin

HM: Jason Spezza, Nicklas Backstrom

Wingers:

1. Alex Ovechkin
2. Ilya Kovalchuk
3. Patrick Kane
4. Phil Kessel
5. Henrik Zetterberg
6. Corey Perry
7. Marian Hossa
8. Martin St. Louis
9. Zach Parise
10. Daniel Sedin

HM: Taylor Hall, Joffrey Lupul

Defense:

1. Zdeno Chara
2. Shea Weber
3. Ryan Suter
4. Drew Doughty
5. Erik Karlsson
6. Alex Pietrangelo
7. Duncan Keith
8. Oliver Ekman-Larsson
9. P.K. Subban
10. Kris Letang

HM: Keith Yandle, Brent Seabrook

Goaltender:

1. Henrik Lundqvist
2. Jonathan Quick
3. Pekka Rinne
4. Tuuka Rask
5. Sergei Bobrovsky
6. Antti Niemi
7. Mike Smith
8. Roberto Luongo
9. Craig Anderson
10. Kari Lehtonen

HM: Corey Schneider, Carey Price
Stopped bothering with the list after the bolded.

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Old
06-17-2013, 11:14 PM
  #39
Sheva7
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1. Crosby
2. Tavares
3. Datsyuk
4. Malkin
5. Toews
6. Stamkos
7. Bergeron
8. Thornton
9. Giroux
10. Getzlaf/Staal

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Old
06-17-2013, 11:18 PM
  #40
Sheva7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Tavares also brings nothing but his offense to the table. There are guys not far behind him (Kopitar, Thornton) who bring a physical game and a defensive game.
Watch a game dude. You couldn't be more wrong on this.

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Old
06-17-2013, 11:26 PM
  #41
Mika Zibanejad
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although spezza, is not in everyones top 10's im loving how hes getting honarable mentions, he really is a top 15 center in this league his health is probably the reason he isn't in the top 5

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Old
06-17-2013, 11:34 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Tavares was on pace to score 50 goals if this was an 82 game season. For a guy that had 50 assists last year, don't you wonder why he had so few? You have guys listed that he still out scored this year despite that, and still outscored them last year too.

I'll repeat what I said in another thread.... I can't wait until the olympics. Because he's going to shut all you haters up pretty quick. That's going to be the only way too.... because it's painfully obvious you're never going to actually watch the kid more than a handful of times any other way.
Want to know an interesting fact? John Tavares outscored his most frequent linemates by a smaller percentage than Sidney Crosby did. And I'm not talking PPG; I'm talking raw points. That's also true when Tavares is compared to Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg. Or Jonathan Toews.

So if you're trying to suggest Tavares "did it all himself" you're sorely mistaken. Especially given that he only outscored Matt Moulson by three points, and Moulson missed a game.

The one big difference between this season and the previous three that changed the Moulson/Tavares dynamic? Tavares was doing the goal scoring, not Moulson. from 09-1 through 11-12, Moulson was a 30+ scorer (no matter how much he played with Tavares). Then this season, he scored 15 in 47, which is the equivalent of 26 in 80. So his goal scoring went down. But he had 29 assists, four short of his career high. It's the first season in Moulson's career that he's had more assists than goals. Early in the season, Moulson was scoring about 0.5 GPG (he had 10-13-23 in 19 and 11-14-25 in 23) and on pace for a career-best season, then suddenly his goal scoring disappeared. And yet, he still came out close to (on-pace for) his regular 30.

Makes you wonder how fluffed up the "Tavares is sooooo lonely playing without anyone else" stuff really is.

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Old
06-17-2013, 11:38 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Sheva7 View Post
Watch a game dude. You couldn't be more wrong on this.
What, I couldn't be more wrong in saying that Tavares is one-dimensional?

I didn't say he was a liability.

Or are you complaining about my assessments of Kopitar and Thornton?

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Old
06-17-2013, 11:40 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheva7 View Post
1. Crosby
2. Tavares
3. Datsyuk
4. Malkin
5. Toews
6. Stamkos
7. Bergeron
8. Thornton
9. Giroux
10. Getzlaf/Staal
Why, exactly?

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Old
06-17-2013, 11:40 PM
  #45
Jester9881
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Want to know an interesting fact? John Tavares outscored his most frequent linemates by a smaller percentage than Sidney Crosby did. And I'm not talking PPG; I'm talking raw points. That's also true when Tavares is compared to Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg. Or Jonathan Toews.

So if you're trying to suggest Tavares "did it all himself" you're sorely mistaken. Especially given that he only outscored Matt Moulson by three points, and Moulson missed a game.

The one big difference between this season and the previous three that changed the Moulson/Tavares dynamic? Tavares was doing the goal scoring, not Moulson. from 09-1 through 11-12, Moulson was a 30+ scorer (no matter how much he played with Tavares). Then this season, he scored 15 in 47, which is the equivalent of 26 in 80. So his goal scoring went down. But he had 29 assists, four short of his career high. It's the first season in Moulson's career that he's had more assists than goals. Early in the season, Moulson was scoring about 0.5 GPG (he had 10-13-23 in 19 and 11-14-25 in 23) and on pace for a career-best season, then suddenly his goal scoring disappeared. And yet, he still came out close to (on-pace for) his regular 30.

Makes you wonder how fluffed up the "Tavares is sooooo lonely playing without anyone else" stuff really is.
You seriously have no idea

Think the Islanders could get Pat Kane for Moulson straight up? We'll even throw Brad Boyes and our first rounder in. Seriously, you're delirious if you believe what you just typed.

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Old
06-17-2013, 11:42 PM
  #46
CanadianHockey
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Centers
Crosby
Malkin
Stamkos
Toews
Datsyuk
Bergeron
Giroux
H.Sedin
Thornton
Spezza/Tavares

Wingers
Ovechkin
Kovalchuk
Kane
St. Louis
Kessel
Zetterberg
Parise
Perry
D.Sedin
Hossa

Defencemen
Weber
Chara
Karlsson
Pietrangelo
Doughty
Keith
Suter
Subban
Letang
Burns/Ekman-Larsson

Goalies
Lundqvist
Rinne
Quick
Anderson
Hiller
Rask
Niemi
Price
Lehtonen
Luongo/Miller

__________________
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Old
06-17-2013, 11:45 PM
  #47
pdd
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
You seriously have no idea

Think the Islanders could get Pat Kane for Moulson straight up? We'll even throw Brad Boyes and our first rounder in. Seriously, you're delirious if you believe what you just typed.
Where did I compare Moulson to Kane?

Your inclusion of Kane makes me assume you think Kane plays on a line with Toews. Or did at all this season.

Hint: Rarely ever. Saad/Toews/Hossa and Sharp/Bolland (later Handzus)/Kane were the most common lines.

Now it's my turn to ask a question. Do you think the Islanders could get Jonathan Toews for Tavares? I know the answer.

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Old
06-17-2013, 11:51 PM
  #48
Jester9881
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Where did I compare Moulson to Kane?

Your inclusion of Kane makes me assume you think Kane plays on a line with Toews. Or did at all this season.

Hint: Rarely ever. Saad/Toews/Hossa and Sharp/Bolland (later Handzus)/Kane were the most common lines.

Now it's my turn to ask a question. Do you think the Islanders could get Jonathan Toews for Tavares? I know the answer.
I might take Bolland for Moulson..... I'd absolutely take Sharp.

And the reason I brought it up is obviously because you compared them. Am I in an alternate universe?

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Old
06-17-2013, 11:56 PM
  #49
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Lets also not pretend that the presence of Kane doesn't help Toews.... or the presence of Malkin doesn't help Crosby and vice versa. The Islanders do not have anyone even close to those caliber players. Everyone keys in on Tavares.

You think before the Isles/Pens series, Blysma was talking to the team about how to cover Frans Neilsen? Or Josh Bailey?

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Old
06-18-2013, 12:21 AM
  #50
Lord Flacko*
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C
1. Crosby
2. Malkin
3. Stamkos
4. Giroux
5. Datsyuk
6. Getzlaf
7. Kopitar
8. Zetterberg
9. Bergeron
10. Toews
Honourable mentions: H. Sedin, Kesler, Krejci

W
1. Ovechkin
2. Kovalchuk
3. St. Louis
4. P. Kane
5. Hall
6. Kessel
7. D. Sedin
8. Hossa
9. Perry
10. Vanek
Hourable mentions: Parise, Nash, Lupul

D
1. Chara
2. Karlsson
3. Weber
4. Suter
5. Doughty
6. Pietrangelo
7. Subban
8. Keith
9. OEL
10. Letang
Honourable mentions: Edler, Enstrom, Seabrook

G
1. Quick
2. Lundqvist
3. Rask
4. Anderson
5. Niemi
6. Schneider
7. Price
8. Halak
9. Bobrovsky
10. Luongo
Honourable mentions: Howard, Miller, Lehtonen


Last edited by Lord Flacko*: 06-18-2013 at 12:29 AM.
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